Another plasma question

[lman]

I am looking to get a 50" HDTV or so in the next few months, I saw a Samsung LN52A650 in the local Best BUy, and liked it, but as I researched it online I have found that the Pioneer KURO 5020FD and the Panasonic PZ850U "I think thats the number" both rate higher, well looking at newegg for online prices it seems that there is a 58 Panasonic VIERA (58PZ800U) for $2700, where as the 50" KURO is still $2800 is the picture on the 58" that much lower quality then the KURO and is it compareable to the Samsung, because at 58 in I would consider it a good deal

 

[PENG]

I am looking to get a 50" HDTV or so in the next few months, I saw a Samsung LN52A650 in the local Best BUy, and liked it, but as I researched it online I have found that the Pioneer KURO 5020FD and the Panasonic PZ850U "I think thats the number" both rate higher, well looking at newegg for online prices it seems that there is a 58 Panasonic VIERA (58PZ800U) for $2700, where as the 50" KURO is still $2800 is the picture on the 58" that much lower quality then the KURO and is it compareable to the Samsung, because at 58 in I would consider it a good deal

I guess we are in the same boat! I am also considering the PIO and Panny but am also tempted to give up on Plasma and go for the LN52A630 or 750. From my own experience, in BB or FS stores, the Samsung LCD panels always fare better and sharper, even in terms of black level (something Plasma is supposed to do well). The Panny will look a little washed out and blurry, with the PIO 5020 kind of in between.

If I wasn’t under the influence of those rave reviews on the Panny and PIO Plasma models, I would not even consider them at all because of their unimpressive PQ demonstrated in the stores. The fact is, I am affected by the reviews, and I can’t help but wonder how can the reviewers be so wrong? My only logical conclusion is that a) the Plasma displays are always at disadvantage in FS and BB because of those bright ceiling pot lights and b) the picture quality of Plasma displays are probably more dependent on correct settings/calibrations.

 

[lman]

Yeah it is hard to look at a TV in a store and love it, but then to totaly dismiss professional reviews that contradict what you saw, my gut feeling right now is that I am going to get the 58in Panasonic, the 58PZ800U, for 2700, and free shipping it just seems to be a great bargin. but then again I am not buying one for another month, so I guess we'll see how I feel then.

 

[Adam]

I'm with you guys. I read about how much better plasma was, but when I finally went to BB to check out some sets, the Samsung LCDs looked a lot better to me than any of the Panasonic plasmas that they had out. The plasmas showed a lot more of what I'd call digital artifacts than did the LCDs. The picture was much more blocky and grainy on the plasmas. I know it's tough to judge based on how a store has things set up, but when it's my only personal experience, it's tough not to. I'm going back today to look some more, but I'll end up going with my own eyes over the reviews. I'll just buy from someplace that will let me return it.

 

[highfigh]

If anything in a store looks head and shoulders better than something else, there are a few reasons, one of which is that they set them up to look that way. Best Buy was just nailed for doing exactly this, very recently. An LCD display can't do black as well as a plasma. Period. LCD displays are, however, really good in a bright environment. Still, bad video distribution, improper setup and wanting to sell Samsung LCD TVs over Panasonic or Pioneer is based on profit or inventory levels. Sometimes, they get kickbacks, which are used to effectively lower their cost.

The KURO plasma does black better than any other display than any other that I have seen. Dark gray is not black and if realism is desired, good black is an absolute necessity.

Blocky picture and digital artifacts are from weak signal strength, not the inherent ability of the display. If it's rated as HD, blocky doesn't enter the equation. Grab the remote and go into the menu, so you can find out if the brightness, color levels/tint/hue, contrast and sharpness are whacked. Look on the back to see which inputs are being used but don't be surprised if they aren't using the HDMI or component inputs.

If you buy the Panasonic, Pioneer or Samsung, you will need to calibrate it, but you will have a really good or great picture.

 

[Phil Taylor]

I'd go for the Panny TH50PX80U - I have the 42" PX80U and the picture is phenomenal - crisp detail, deep blacks and vibrant colors - in fact the image looks nearly 3D. Although "only" 720p (actually a 768p panel) the detail and blacks of the PX80Us are spectacular and at 50" and under screen size and viewing distance of 8ft or more 1080p is a waste IMHO. The 50" PX80U can be had for under $1K at Amazon and is a STEAL at that price. Panasonic really got it right with this TV.

 

[Nemo128]

Pana 50PZ850 is sex. It looked better to me and the woman everytime we saw it in person at any B&M except at Best Borrow. Interesting...

 

[annunaki]

If anything in a store looks head and shoulders better than something else, there are a few reasons, one of which is that they set them up to look that way. Best Buy was just nailed for doing exactly this, very recently. An LCD display can't do black as well as a plasma. Period. LCD displays are, however, really good in a bright environment. Still, bad video distribution, improper setup and wanting to sell Samsung LCD TVs over Panasonic or Pioneer is based on profit or inventory levels. Sometimes, they get kickbacks, which are used to effectively lower their cost.

The KURO plasma does black better than any other display than any other that I have seen. Dark gray is not black and if realism is desired, good black is an absolute necessity.

Blocky picture and digital artifacts are from weak signal strength, not the inherent ability of the display. If it's rated as HD, blocky doesn't enter the equation. Grab the remote and go into the menu, so you can find out if the brightness, color levels/tint/hue, contrast and sharpness are whacked. Look on the back to see which inputs are being used but don't be surprised if they aren't using the HDMI or component inputs.

If you buy the Panasonic, Pioneer or Samsung, you will need to calibrate it, but you will have a really good or great picture.

When I worked at part time at Circuit City (briefly for some extra holiday cash), I would set all of the sets I could up "correctly" much to the chagrin of the management. Poor performing sets tended to look really poor.

They would have me set up a set they wanted to sell through so it "looked the best". I would simply adjust it to normal standards, they would then set it to vivid and others on standard or movie around it.

Some customers while I was there simply do not want to hear objective fact about televisions. They will buy what "looks" best to them regardless of whether or not the set is any good or even looks good. They like to believe myths. Being happy is one thing but ignorance must surely be bliss.

I had a customer one time that wanted a 42" 1080p Vizio set though we had the Panasonic TH-42PX80U for $100.00 cheaper. You could see a glaring difference between the two sets in favor of the Panasonic, most notably grey vs. black, as well as detail. This woman professed that she did her research and that was the set that was best for her dollar on the market. Even her friend that was with her said the Panasonic was a substantially better set. He stated that if it were his money he would purchase the Panasonic no questions asked. I could not believe the ignorance of the woman. I even offered to show her the results of reviews online with cnet and others.

She did leave without the set (Vizio) so as to do some follow up research on the Panasonic. I hope she ended up with the right set.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[lman]

I never realized that stores did that, while I guess it is good for the bottom line it says alot about what they think about their customers. Anyway we went back to BB yesterday and sure enough the Sammy LN50A650 look stunning, it even looked far better then the Pio 5020 KURO, I didn't have enough to go through the menus and mess wth any of the settings, I'll probably try that this weekend. One question what is the difference between the Panisonic 50PZ80/85 series and the 800/850's?

 

[annunaki]

The 800/850 series allow more fine tuning adjustment, better black level performance and higher grade processing. The 800 is also a THX mode equipped set. In this mode, the grey scale is said to be set to the D65K standard.

The 85 is no slouch and is a great performer in its own right, but is still a step or two back in performance from the 800/850. That step is smaller though, all things considered.

 

[rekced]

I am looking to get a 50" HDTV or so in the next few months, I saw a Samsung LN52A650 in the local Best BUy, and liked it, but as I researched it online I have found that the Pioneer KURO 5020FD and the Panasonic PZ850U "I think thats the number" both rate higher, well looking at newegg for online prices it seems that there is a 58 Panasonic VIERA (58PZ800U) for $2700, where as the 50" KURO is still $2800 is the picture on the 58" that much lower quality then the KURO and is it compareable to the Samsung, because at 58 in I would consider it a good deal

If your gut made look at an LCD but you're looking at high end plasmas now because of the reviews they received, chances are you won't appreciate what the reviewer liked about them because you would have picked the same TV when you were at Best Buy. If I were you I'd determine which technology you actually prefer and which will be ideal for the kind of room you're putting it in.

Based on the kind of questions you're asking, I could put parts from a $1,500 TV in a 800U cabinet and you would never know the difference. I don't mean that as an insult.

 

[highfigh]

I never realized that stores did that, while I guess it is good for the bottom line it says alot about what they think about their customers. Anyway we went back to BB yesterday and sure enough the Sammy LN50A650 look stunning, it even looked far better then the Pio 5020 KURO, I didn't have enough to go through the menus and mess wth any of the settings, I'll probably try that this weekend. One question what is the difference between the Panisonic 50PZ80/85 series and the 800/850's?

The PX80U is 768 and 15000:1 contrast. The PZ800U is 30000:1, PZ80U is 20000:1. The 850 has more audio tweaks, BBE, tri-lingual captioning, SD slot, etc. Personally, since I NEVER use the TV without the rest of the system, I wouldn't care if it had absolutely no audio capabilities at all, but well, they didn't ask me. Professional models tend to be more designed for people to choose what they want it to do and consumer includes bells & whistles.

High contrast ratio, high resolution and anything else that makes it look better are the important things. Anything else makes it a TV, not a display and if it's not used, is a waste of money.

 

[lman]

I normaly like plasma T.V.'s better, the Sammy just cought my eye on the shelf, it just happened to be an LCD, since I really just started "shopping" I thought I would ask you guys your opinion. and there was no offense taken, while I can see the difference between a 60 and 120 refresh rate, I am not sure I can tell the difference in 8 and 12 bit color. I am just looking for a great T.V. close to $2000, and want to make sure I am getting the most for my money.

P.S. I didn't take that as insulting at all.

 

[Adam]

I hear ya, lman. I went to Best Buy again yesterday (same one as before), and the Sammy LCDs looked better than the Panny plasmas. I know that it can be in how they set them up, but I struggle with the, "look at them before you buy them, but don't trust your eyes in the store" dilemma.

I want to go back and look again now that I know the difference between the Samsung 630 series and the 650 series. The biggest difference is that the 630 has a matte finish on the screen, but it also doesn't have the ToC highlights on the bezel.

 

[PENG]

I normaly like plasma T.V.'s better, the Sammy just cought my eye on the shelf, it just happened to be an LCD, since I really just started "shopping" I thought I would ask you guys your opinion. and there was no offense taken, while I can see the difference between a 60 and 120 refresh rate, I am not sure I can tell the difference in 8 and 12 bit color. I am just looking for a great T.V. close to $2000, and want to make sure I am getting the most for my money.

P.S. I didn't take that as insulting at all.

I started looking for a plasma to replace my Toshiba LCD but I quickly got disppointed after realizing neither the Panny 800 or the Kuro 5020 can be tweaked. The Elite and the 850 cost a lot more if you can find them. So now I am reconsidering LCD and am focussing on the Samsung LN52A650/750. So far I don't find the plama black level any better than the Sammy LCDs but I have no doubt it is a different story in a darker environment than that found in the Bestbuy/Futureshop show rooms.

 

[lman]

I am going to go to a small local mom and pop store that has been in bussiness forever, and look at what they have and see if their displays are more accurate to what a home will be.

 

[Adam]

I am going to go to a small local mom and pop store that has been in bussiness forever, and look at what they have and see if their displays are more accurate to what a home will be.

I'm very interested in your impressions after you go there, and I'd sure appreciate it if you'd let us know what you think. Thanks!

 

[jasonwf]

I read a CNET review where the 850 was rated lower than the 800 due to color accuracy. Can anyone verify this?

 

[PENG]

I read a CNET review where the 850 was rated lower than the 800 due to color accuracy. Can anyone verify this?

The 800 has a THX mode and that is the reason why it has more accurate color out of the box, but only if you select that mode. My understanding is that a calibrated 850 will have color accuracy equal to or better than that of an 800 (in THX mode).

 

[Midcow2]

Planning on getting a Plasma also

The 800 has a THX mode and that is the reason why it has more accurate color out of the box, but only if you select that mode. My understanding is that a calibrated 850 will have color accuracy equal to or better than that of an 800 (in THX mode).

Peng ,Adam and others,

I am very interested in your opinions. iIplan to upgrade to a 60" Pioneer PRO-151FR plasma in the next couple of months. However it a Panosonic or Samsung same quality for $2,000 less that is certainly and option. Also , if a high-ned LCD is the way to go Iam open to thta option also. I think the Model: KDL-52XBR4 is pretty nice. Is there really much loss in going with a 52" LCD ( which is about as big of LCD as I have seen; what is the largest LCD?).

Anyway, i am very intereseted in everyone's opinions. I am planning on getting a Salamander TV stand in Wenge color (kind of dark brown bronze color) because it looks like it will handle my center speaker best.
http://www.thesimpletvstandstore.com/p-6830-salamander-designs-cbl221we-berlin-221-two-part-cabinet-for-tvs-up-to-42-wenge.aspx