Top Islamic body: Yoga is not for Muslims

[MidnightSensi]

 

[Panjsheri]

I think a lot of people are just thinking that Yoga is a form of exercise.

It's not. It's a lot, lot, lot more than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga

WOW thxs this helps but I didnt know that the same "ban" was being imposed by the Catholic church

Here is an update on the Fatwa:

The fatwa states that yoga practiced only as physical exercise is permissible, but prohibits the chanting of religious mantras....

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gkepLWOtoRT7YiTChjyOPSjkVtzAD94MIV500

 

[Panjsheri]

Well that is your opinion and it is your right and I don't expect you to understand as you are not a Muslim. But I would not make fun of the Holocaust because I know how it would make a Jewish person feel and in the same respect I do not expect someone to make fun of our Prophet like I would not make fun of Jesus (also one of the prophets in Islam). It may be different to you but it is not for us, its like someone making fun of Buddha how do you think a Buddhist will feel? Some of them might not care but others might be offended and in that respect joking about it should be prohibited.

Also when I mean punished I don't mean strapped to a chair and beaten I mean suspended from work or something of that nature.

If you do not believe in the our prophet then that is fine as you are not a Muslim I on the other hand I am a Muslim and I do not appreciate it when someone makes fun of my prophet. There is a big difference when an American who is probably Christian makes fun of his or her own prophet whereas in this case an American who is not even Muslim is making fun of an Islamic prophet especially in a manner that not only demeans our prophet but our religion and its followers as terrorists. It was not only Muslims in the Middle East that were offended but Muslims in Russia, China, Africa, Asia and yes even the easy going Muslim Americans/ Canadians whether they are white or of any other race.

If I have offended you in any manner or anyone else on this forum or group then I do sincerely apologize I did not want to use the Holocaust as an example but it is the best example as it is not something one should poke fun at.

 

[jinjuku]

Well that is your opinion and it is your right and I don't expect you to understand as you are not a Muslim. But I would not make fun of the Holocaust because I know how it would make a Jewish person feel and in the same respect I do not expect someone to make fun of our Prophet like I would not make fun of Jesus (also one of the prophets in Islam). It may be different to you but it is not for us, its like someone making fun of Buddha how do you think a Buddhist will feel? Some of them might not care but others might be offended and in that respect joking about it should be prohibited.

I think the main troubling aspect is your belief that the (Danish?) editors should be punished.

I really don't know what to say to that. It really left me jolted about the mindset.

 

[Panjsheri]

Not a big fan of that whole "freedom of speech" thing, I suppose?

Its not even about that again I have been in Canada since I was 5 and am as Canadian as anyone else and live and believe in the North American lifestyle and in free speech but there should be boundaries when it comes to free speech and some respect. If someone does not appreciate it when someone pokes fun at him or about something that indirectly affects him or her then maybe someone should respect that. No one makes fun of the Holocaust, killings of African Americans during the slave trade, etc and the same is expected by Muslims and our religion.

 

[Panjsheri]

It doesn't matter that:

1. The Fatwa was rescinded
2. He became a born again Muslim

It only matters that such a ridiculous Fatwa was issued in the first place. Thus my point.

It seems people at large have to watch what they say/write/depict about Islam upon fear of death. I don't even see you as a moderate Muslim coming out and simply that these Fatwa's are wrong. I am trying to be proven wrong about my opinions on the matter.

Why doesn't it matter of course it matters just like the Fatwa was issued if it was rescinded then that is equally as important. It may be ridiculous to you but to some it is not and I did not agree to the Fatwa I was just trying to explain why it may have been issued. See I don't even know you and in turn I cannot judge you but for some reason you seem to know me and are judging me as a hardliner and not a moderate Muslim just because of how I am trying to explain my reasoning. I am not trying to prove you wrong I am simply trying to give you my input and explain my viewpoint to this forum when it originally asked for a Muslims point of view on the matter about the Fatwa against Yoga. I think I am probably the only member if not one of few in the group that is a Muslim and thought that I should give my input considering someone asked and to date I am the only Muslim here giving my input. I do not know what I said or did that offended you or even angered you but again I will apologize as that was not my intention but I do not appreciate you judging me as some kind of hardliner fundamentalist or something along that line.

 

[jonnythan]

Its not even about that again I have been in Canada since I was 5 and am as Canadian as anyone else and live and believe in the North American lifestyle and in free speech but there should be boundaries when it comes to free speech and some respect. If someone does not appreciate it when someone pokes fun at him or about something that indirectly affects him or her then maybe someone should respect that. No one makes fun of the Holocaust, killings of African Americans during the slave trade, etc and the same is expected by Muslims and our religion.

People do make fun of the Holocaust, and people do tell slave and racist jokes all the time.

It's their right as human beings to be able to say pretty much whatever they want.

Scientology is stupid bullshit. See what I did there? I insulted a religion. How about: creationism is stupid bullshit. There, I insulted another religion. That's my right as a human being. I can insult belief systems without fear of getting killed or arrested. It seems that Islam is the only religion people in the Western world seem to get murdered over insulting.

I wonder why that is? Perhaps, as a Muslim, you can explain to me what it is about your religion that is so extremely - and violently - protective of itself that its adherents defy the law and hurt and kill people over words?

 

[Panjsheri]

Isn't it preeched in the Koran to convert or kill?

No!! Where does it say that? I do not know where you read that or who said that but they are wrong. People who as Muslim may try to convert people which is fine as Christians and other do the same but there is no reference to killing people. There is a part that says that if someone tries to take something that is yours (ex; property, country, family, etc) then you are allowed to defend that right (Jihad). But there is never a mention of directly killing or instructing one to kill.

 

[Panjsheri]

So let me get this straight... because YOU don't think its funny, that means that they need to be punished?

Let me ask you a serious question. What if the same cartoon creator, created the exact same cartoon but this time making fun of Jesus. A) would it be ok then? B) should they be punished for that?

Ya see... thats why its so great to live in the good ol' USA. We here live in a free country where we are allowed the freedom of speech. Its perfectly fine to make fun of religions, groups of people, and even our own leaders. You don't have to agree with what such people say, heck, you can even choose to completely ignore them and even consider their speech to be disgusting or defamatory. But the freedom to question, polk fun, and even disagree with others, including religions and our goverment leaders, is one of the founding prinicpals that makes this country free.

I don't get all upset when somebody runs around making fun of atheists either

Its not only me but many Muslims that didn't take it kindly when they depicted our prophet as a terrorist bomber. When I say punished I don't meant they should be beaten or killed but maybe suspended from work or something along those lines. If they didn't realize how we will be affected then they can apologize and all will be forgiven that is all.

With respect to your serious question I personally believe that YES they should still be punished but again with a suspension at work not a beating or killing as Jesus is also one of God's messengers in Islam. The only difference is what Jesus is to Christianity, Prophet Muhammad is to Islam.

Well I have been a Canadian since I was 5 and I understand the idea of free speech. The cartoonists did do the sketch and then there were protests and riots both of the peaceful and violent nature. I do not agree with the violent nature but I do understand why some may have been more angered then others. After the protests and riots I believe the editors were punished in some way and the articles removed but I cant remember exactly so I believe it can be said that the editors realized their mistake and could be why there have been no similar depictions since.

 

[Panjsheri]

I think the main troubling aspect is your belief that the (Danish?) editors should be punished.

I really don't know what to say to that. It really left me jolted about the mindset.

Well I have said this before with the other members of the group who are a part of this discussion but I did not mean punished as in being beaten or killed. I meant to say suspended from work, given a warning or even removing the article and issuing an apology (I believe this was already done if my memory serves me right?) If another member of the group came out and said off with his head I would be surprised too and would immediately disagree. Maybe the editors did not realize the reaction they would get from the Muslim community around the world and so they should be given a chance to correct their mistake and apologize (again I think that was done already).

 

[jonnythan]

Its not only me but many Muslims that didn't take it kindly when they depicted our prophet as a terrorist bomber. When I say punished I don't meant they should be beaten or killed but maybe suspended from work or something along those lines. If they didn't realize how we will be affected then they can apologize and all will be forgiven that is all.

Government protection of the freedom of speech is not required for speech that is popular.

It is there expressly to protect speech that people find abhorrent or insulting.

You do not have a right not to be insulted by people. You do not have a right not to be made fun of. Other people do have a right to insult or make fun of your belief system.

If we outlawed all speech that certain groups found offensive, no one would be able to say anything. Every comedian on earth would be instantly put out of work. Free speech would cease to exist.

Well I have been a Canadian since I was 5 and I understand the idea of free speech.

Honestly, I don't think you do. Far from it.

 

[jinjuku]

Well I have said this before with the other members of the group who are a part of this discussion but I did not mean punished as in being beaten or killed. I meant to say suspended from work, given a warning or even removing the article and issuing an apology (I believe this was already done if my memory serves me right?) If another member of the group came out and said off with his head I would be surprised too and would immediately disagree. Maybe the editors did not realize the reaction they would get from the Muslim community around the world and so they should be given a chance to correct their mistake and apologize (again I think that was done already).

I meant punished at all, in any form. Peaceful protest is fine and a healthy part of western styled society. What you may not understand is that you are advocating censorship.

The the whole cartoon of Mohamed proved a point. What about the Teacher in Somalia that was jailed because the class agreed to name a teddy bear Mohamed?

Apologies at the end of the spear are hardly apologies at all. It's sad that if you potentially slight the Muslim religion that you take your life into your own hands...

 

[Cpt.America]

No one makes fun of the Holocaust.

Why thats not true at all. Muslim leaders in the middle east make fun of the holocaust all the time.

 

[jonnythan]

Why thats not true at all. Muslim leaders in the middle east make fun of the holocaust all the time.

I've heard plenty of Holocaust jokes in my day, right here in the United States.

I don't hear many Jews calling for people who tell these jokes to be incarcerated, fined, or fired from their jobs.

 

[Panjsheri]

People do make fun of the Holocaust, and people do tell slave and racist jokes all the time.

It's their right as human beings to be able to say pretty much whatever they want.

Scientology is stupid bullshit. See what I did there? I insulted a religion. How about: creationism is stupid bullshit. There, I insulted another religion. That's my right as a human being. I can insult belief systems without fear of getting killed or arrested. It seems that Islam is the only religion people in the Western world seem to get murdered over insulting.

I wonder why that is? Perhaps, as a Muslim, you can explain to me what it is about your religion that is so extremely - and violently - protective of itself that its adherents defy the law and hurt and kill people over words?

Well that is the sad part about all this because to some it may be funny but to those who went through the ordeal and or had family who did I would imagine the articles are not funny to them. It may be their right but I do not believe it is right to do so.

That is your right and yes you can make fun of or insult another religion or belief system but then you are angering others by doing so and I don't see the point in doing so? You can make fun of Islam if you like but then I wont think to highly of you as a person or at least one with any respect and I mean that with respect I am not trying to put you down as a person. If I make fun of Hindus then the Hindu members of this group may not like or respect me as a person which is why I wont do that because I don't see the point in doing so. We can joke and laugh at many other things but there should be boundaries. For example among my friends especially the guys we will joke about all sorts of things but never about our mothers/ wives/ sisters cause we know that is a little too much and we wont someone to do it to us. People get killed all over the world for many reasons. People in China get arrested and detained for being Tibetan or followers of certain followings I don't remember the one I heard on the news about a following that was banned by the Chinese Govt. In In Rwanda the Tutsi's slaughtered the Hutu's and the Hutu's did the same to the others because one looked more white then the other and was seen as a slave and friend to the White British in the country. These are just some examples of problems in todays world.

I don't know why you are generalizing my religion as a religion of death and hate when in that is not the case. If anything we have endured a lot of killing over the past 20 years by the hands of others such as the Rwanda Genocide, the massacre in Chechnya, in Bosnia, Albania, Afghanistan, Palestine and other regions in the world. If anything Muslims around the world are probably more scared of foreigners and feel a need to defend themselves to whether it be because of their religion ethnic background or the color of their skin. People such as Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda are NOT real Muslims and most people know that as humans are generally good people no matter where they come from. I have many close friends who are Israeli Jews, Russian, Chinese, Spanish, Arab, etc you name it not once have we ever talked about or said do you hate me because of where I come from or what religion I practice are you scared of me because of where I am from? If you choose to believe otherwise then you are sadly blinded by fear and I mean that with respect and not to degrade you or your reasoning but I do hope that you and others in this group understand the point I am trying to make.

 

[jonnythan]

You wrote a lot of words, but you didn't at all address the point that "free speech" means being able to say whatever you want, even if it bothers or offends people, without fear of the government arresting you (or similar).

It almost sounds like you're justifying the limiting of free speech because the things they do in China are worse.

Nor did you answer my question - why is it that Muslims are the only people who are en masse calling for the punishment and, often, the execution of people who do something innocuous as insult their religion? Jews don't do it, Christians don't do it, Hindus don't do it, Wiccans don't do it, Buddhists don't do it. This includes you - you claim to understand free speech, and you claim that Islam is a peaceful religion... yet you say that people who insult your religion should be punished in some fashion.

Your view - your personal view - is extreme. Your personal view advocates the severe limiting of free speech... and your view is on the conservative end of the spectrum of opinions I see on this matter from Muslims. Your relatively conservative Muslim view would be on the fairly extreme/fundamentalist end of any other religion.

I'm not even criticizing Islam for this... but I really do wonder why it is this way.

 

[Panjsheri]

I don't think I can make my point across to anyone here and I regret saying anything. I am trying to input my point but I guess no one appreciates what I have to say so forget it I have better things to do then to argue with you guys over why people shouldn't hate someone for being a Muslim and that things that you hear in the news may have been blown out of proportion.

 

[jonnythan]

I don't think I can make my point across to anyone here and I regret saying anything. I am trying to input my point but I guess no one appreciates what I have to say so forget it I have better things to do then to argue with you guys over why people shouldn't hate someone for being a Muslim and that things that you hear in the news may have been blown out of proportion.

You're being disingenuous now.

No one here is saying anything about hating someone for being a Muslim. No one here is denying that things we hear in the news may have been blown way out of proportion.

You have to understand that you live in a country that has free speech, and you are speaking mainly to an audience whose country was founded on the principles of freedom and free speech... and you're here advocating the punishment of people who exercise that freedom just because someone's feelings may be hurt.

You don't understand what free speech is all about. The First Amendment of the United States Constitution exists specifically to protect unpopular speech. It is there to protect insulting and offensive speech.

Your view that there should be accommodations made to limit free speech in the event that certain groups of people are offended by such speech goes against the very foundations of the concept of freedom of speech.

And, like I said in the previous post, your view that people who insult Islam should be appropriately punished is on the conservative end of Muslim views, but would be on the extreme fundamentalist end of every other major world religion. And the fundamentalist end of your religion is way, way more extreme (and more violent) than the fundamentalist end of other religions.

Why is that?

 

[Adam]

It's their right as human beings to be able to say pretty much whatever they want.

I'll reference my comments in the thread about the bill of non-rights. Rights exist because people let them. IMO, human beings have no inherent rights.

..."free speech" means being able to say whatever you want, even if it bothers or offends people, without fear of the government arresting you (or similar).

Free speech only protects so much. Yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater and see if you don't get arrested if you're caught. Call the FBI or Secret Service and threaten to kill the president and see what happens. I'm guessing that they'd get to you sooner than you'd think. Heck, just walk up to an armed police officer and tell him that you are going to kill him. Try discussing your right to free speech with his boot on your neck and sidearm against your temple.

You can say anything that you want, but there are consequences - some more significant than others.

 

[Cpt.America]

You wrote a lot of words, but you didn't at all address the point that "free speech" means being able to say whatever you want, even if it bothers or offends people, without fear of the government arresting you (or similar).

It almost sounds like you're justifying the limiting of free speech because the things they do in China are worse.

Nor did you answer my question - why is it that Muslims are the only people who are en masse calling for the punishment and, often, the execution of people who do something innocuous as insult their religion? Jews don't do it, Christians don't do it, Hindus don't do it, Wiccans don't do it, Buddhists don't do it. This includes you - you claim to understand free speech, and you claim that Islam is a peaceful religion... yet you say that people who insult your religion should be punished in some fashion.

Your view - your personal view - is extreme. Your personal view advocates the severe limiting of free speech... and your view is on the conservative end of the spectrum of opinions I see on this matter from Muslims. Your relatively conservative Muslim view would be on the fairly extreme/fundamentalist end of any other religion.

This is why I truley believe that the muslim religion is fundamentally incompatable with our country. I am a firm believer and supporter of the freedom of religion... but not when the religion itself promotes violence and intolerance towards anybody who disagrees with it. It's a oxymoron for the muslim religion to exist in a free society... they simply can't coexist.