XP is dead: No more dodging the Vista bullet?

[emorphien]

Vista does command some more resources than XP in some ways (as is usually the case with newer operating systems), but on the whole on similar well configured systems I've found Vista to be smoother and more "robust." Memory wise, I've run Vista on lower RAM systems and it didn't seem a whole lot different to me than XP, particularly once you were at 2GB however Vista will actually put more RAM to use if you have it. In other words it isn't just sitting there going to waste all the time. As a result programs and files I use frequently are accessed much more quickly because of the RAM caching system.

A lot of people hopped on the "eek Vista is eating my RAM" bandwagon because of things like the caching system, but the reality is that when you need it Vista will release the RAM to programs and files you're using and just dump whatever was cached in that memory.

 

[jonnythan]

For What......

For everything.

I use XP, Vista, Ubuntu, and Suse on the desktop. I use Windows Server 2000/2003, Solaris, Ubuntu, and OpenBSD on servers.

Vista is overall by far the best desktop OS out there. It's much better than XP. It's much more cohesively designed, it's faster, it's smarter, and it's more secure.

Assuming you have decent hardware. Any new computer in the stores today is more than enough for Vista. I've only migrated my personal machine to make it easier to troubleshoot friends and family computers with Vista and start to evaluate it for my office.

 

[gus6464]

Well I was searching around about stuff.... and found this old used thread sorry to drudge it up....

My 5 year old Toshiba is freakin out as the motherboard is going out. So i'm in the market for a new Laptop and was very worried about getting a computer that was strictly limited Vista with Windows 7 coming out in 2 years or so... they are referring to Vista as "Windows ME 2" and I have really been dedicated to the balance of XP.

I ended up narrowing my search down to business computers where they offer the option of Vista business with downgrade to Windows Xp Pro, so I get the computer with both Options.

Now looking about at computers I was not looking for a gaming machine, but a sleek, reliable, quality built machine that has a good amount of options, that is going to last me for years to come.... I ended up narrowing down that list to just a few.....

HP's Business Laptops, too many models to list
Lenovo (old IBM) Thinkpad
Dell Latitude E6500

I hope I made the right descision, but I ended up with the newly revised Dell Latitude E6500. If it turns out to be a piece of cr@p I'll send it back.
But Its got an impressive list of features...Backlit keyboard, camera, fingerprint scan... lots of goodies and I think it looks sleek

It really seems that everything out on the market seems to be pretty much cheap and unreliable these days. Shopping at all the local places, BB, CC Office Max and Depot have the same unimpressive junk..

This will be my first Dell, I have worked on a few of them for other people, and they seemed fine, but never owned one... I have read they were pretty durable machines, and I thought they looked pretty nice as well...

thoughts?

Warp you shoulda checked out the deals section as I posted a coupon for 33% off of a lenovo 2 days ago and it ended last night at midnight.

I specced out a Thinkpad T400 with 4gb of ram, 250gb hdd, led lcd @ 1440x900, fingerprint reader, intel wireless N, 9 cell battery, 2.24Ghz 25w intel C2D for $1139. For the price it was a heck of a deal. For laptops I have a macbook right now but my next machine will most likely be a Thinkpad T400 or Dell E6400. It will all depend on the deal at the time but honestly those are the only two machines worth the money right now.

BTW notebook review clocked in the T400 with 9 cell battery and 35w P series C2D and ATI Radeon graphics at 9 hours and 45 minutes battery life surfing the web and 60% backlight. With the 25w T series and 4500MHD graphics it can easily hit almost 11 hours with the same battery. It is truely an incredible machine when it comes to battery life.

 

[emorphien]

The T400 is also the coolest laptop I've ever used. The top and bottom of it barely get warm if you're doing light computing like surfing the web or some office work. I was on integrated graphics at the time, not sure how it would compare if I switched it to discrete.

 

[gus6464]

I am kinda bummed I didn't buy the T400 with the sale that was going on but my macbook is still under warranty until next June so I might as well just wait. By then quad core mobile C2's will be in full production anyway.

Emorphien how is the keyboard bend on the new T series? From the notebookreview.com review they said the new ones have some bending towards the middle and it's one of the main reasons I went with a macbook and not pc laptop as all of the ones I tried 2 years back suffered from bending.

 

[Matt34]

Warp you shoulda checked out the deals section as I posted a coupon for 33% off of a lenovo 2 days ago and it ended last night at midnight.

I specced out a Thinkpad T400 with 4gb of ram, 250gb hdd, led lcd @ 1440x900, fingerprint reader, intel wireless N, 9 cell battery, 2.24Ghz 25w intel C2D for $1139. For the price it was a heck of a deal. For laptops I have a macbook right now but my next machine will most likely be a Thinkpad T400 or Dell E6400. It will all depend on the deal at the time but honestly those are the only two machines worth the money right now.

BTW notebook review clocked in the T400 with 9 cell battery and 35w P series C2D and ATI Radeon graphics at 9 hours and 45 minutes battery life surfing the web and 60% backlight. With the 25w T series and 4500MHD graphics it can easily hit almost 11 hours with the same battery. It is truely an incredible machine when it comes to battery life.

That's impressive! I'm lucky to get 2hrs out of my Dell XPS 1210.

 

[emorphien]

Emorphien how is the keyboard bend on the new T series? From the notebookreview.com review they said the new ones have some bending towards the middle and it's one of the main reasons I went with a macbook and not pc laptop as all of the ones I tried 2 years back suffered from bending.

It's got a little flex, but not much different from my T43p. The only laptop I've used with an absolute rock solid keyboard has been my X31. You won't really notice the flex when typing, you have to pretty much push on it to tell it's there, same as the T43p.

The key response itself is still very good, however and better than just about anything else I've used. For the really anal people you can replace the T400 keyboards with the T60 or T61 keyboards. A lot of people seem to like keyboards made by NMB. The rest of the T400 is still built like a tank, and that's a big part of what keeps me coming back.

 

[Warpdrv]

Well I got the chance last night to see the new Dell Latitude E6500, I was at a party and this guy is an IT tech, he just happened to have a new one fully loaded, his company got them for his team...

He is coming off a Lenovo T61 which he loved, and is extremely happy with his new toy, as was I... I thought it looked and felt very nice. I wouldn't know the difference, as I have never owned either brands. He said the new T500's were great, but the keyboard got cheaper as they were trying to save weight....Otherwise the Lenovo's were great.

I saw that deal on the Lenovo's and was very torn between the 2, but trying to configure a T500 (I didn't want smaller then the 15"), I couldn't touch the price of the deal I got on the Latitude, everytime I tried to configure it, but I was always $300 more then the Latitude for all the same features and warranty's.... Needless to say, I am already a few hundred bucks over my budget with this machine. I will certainly report back with my results and picts when I get it...

 

[gus6464]

Well I got the chance last night to see the new Dell Latitude E6500, I was at a party and this guy is an IT tech, he just happened to have a new one fully loaded, his company got them for his team...

He is coming off a Lenovo T61 which he loved, and is extremely happy with his new toy, as was I... I thought it looked and felt very nice. I wouldn't know the difference, as I have never owned either brands. He said the new T500's were great, but the keyboard got cheaper as they were trying to save weight....Otherwise the Lenovo's were great.

I saw that deal on the Lenovo's and was very torn between the 2, but trying to configure a T500 (I didn't want smaller then the 15"), I couldn't touch the price of the deal I got on the Latitude, everytime I tried to configure it, but I was always $300 more then the Latitude for all the same features and warranty's.... Needless to say, I am already a few hundred bucks over my budget with this machine. I will certainly report back with my results and picts when I get it...

Since the E6500 is based on the Centrino 2 platform that uses DDR2 instead of DDR3 like the Lenovo, did you just configure the machine with the cheapest amount of ram? You can get 4GB of DDR2 gskill ram on newegg for the E6500 for $60. I know Dell always charges a crapton for ram upgrades so that is one way you could saved some money.

 

[emorphien]

He said the new T500's were great, but the keyboard got cheaper as they were trying to save weight....Otherwise the Lenovo's were great.

Personally I think the keyboard woes on the new laptops have been exaggerated. They keyboard isn't "cheaper" but it has been modified to be lighter. They've also changed the support structure beneath it to try to make up for a reduction the the keyboards stiffness. In the end it feels pretty similar to T4x keyboards in my experience. If you insist on changing the keyboard the NMB keyboard from the T60 is about $55 from various sites online.

 

[Warpdrv]

I got a 2 gb single DDR2 - 800 for 30 upcharge from 2 - 1gb chips, then I could upgrade to another 2 gig chip from NewEgg... Instead of just trying to get rid of a 1gig chip, I thought it would be a bit more sensible.

Here is my buildout...

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo P8400 (2.40GHz, 3M L2 Cache, 1066MHz FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista Business Bonus-Windows XP Professional downgrade
WARRANTY & SERVICE 3 Year Limited Warranty and 3 Year Mail-in Service
LCD PANEL 15.4” Wide WXGA+ (1440x900) LED Display-Brushed Metal Black
VIDEO CARD NVIDIA Quadro NVS 160M
MEMORY 2.0GB, DDR2-800 SDRAM, 1 DIMM
INTERNAL KEYBOARD Internal English Backlit Keyboard
CAMERA/MICROPHONE Integrated Webcam with digital microphone
PRIMARY STORAGE 160GB Hard Drive, 7200RPM with Free Fall Sensor
8X DVD+/-RW w/Roxio and Cyberlink Power DVD
WI-FI WIRELESS CARD Dell Wireless™ 1397 802.11b/g Mini Card
FINGERPRINT READER OPTION Internal Swipe Fingerprint Reader
BACKUP OS DRIVERS AND SYSTEM DOCUMENTATION Resource DVD - Contains Diagnostics and Drivers
-- Accidental Damage Service --
-- 3 Year CompleteCare Accidental Damage Protection

I called dell and asked them to provide me with Vista 64bit instead of the 32 as it wasn't an option available on the website

 

[gus6464]

I got a 2 gb single DDR2 - 800 for 30 upcharge from 2 - 1gb chips, then I could upgrade to another 2 gig chip from NewEgg... Instead of just trying to get rid of a 1gig chip, I thought it would be a bit more sensible.

Here is my buildout...

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo P8400 (2.26GHz, 3M L2 Cache, 1066MHz FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista Business Bonus-Windows XP Professional downgrade
WARRANTY & SERVICE 3 Year Limited Warranty and 3 Year Mail-in Service
LCD PANEL 15.4” Wide WXGA+ (1440x900) LED Display-Brushed Metal Black
VIDEO CARD NVIDIA Quadro NVS 160M
MEMORY 2.0GB, DDR2-800 SDRAM, 1 DIMM
INTERNAL KEYBOARD Internal English Backlit Keyboard
CAMERA/MICROPHONE Integrated Webcam with digital microphone
PRIMARY STORAGE 160GB Hard Drive, 7200RPM with Free Fall Sensor
8X DVD+/-RW w/Roxio and Cyberlink Power DVD
WI-FI WIRELESS CARD Dell Wireless™ 1397 802.11b/g Mini Card
FINGERPRINT READER OPTION Internal Swipe Fingerprint Reader
BACKUP OS DRIVERS AND SYSTEM DOCUMENTATION Resource DVD - Contains Diagnostics and Drivers
-- Accidental Damage Service --
-- 3 Year CompleteCare Accidental Damage Protection

I called dell and asked them to provide me with Vista 64bit instead of the 32 as it wasn't an option available on the website

There might be a slight possibility (and I mean very slight) that if you buy another 2gb stick from newegg to go with the Dell one that your system might not like that. The reason being that for dual channel to work properly it likes to be done with two exact matching sticks of ram. The reason being is that while two ram sticks might be the same in terms of speed (800MHz in your case), the timings might be different. Now you should not run into a problem as long as the newegg ram has faster or equal timings as the Dell ram. My linux server which is very old has 4 sticks of ram from 2 different manufacturers and all run at different timings and the system has no problems booting up, but other systems can be very picky about this. The DFI motherboard on my main pc is an example of this as it only works if the ram is matched in exact pairs. Now I am not saying that you will have guaranteed issues, but just don't be surprised if the machine does not boot after sticking the different ram in it.

 

[Warpdrv]

Agreed, I have been through Ram issues before on my servers as well... Won't be nothing new, so I'll do my homework and see what has worked for others before I get another stick...

I edited my original post, I got the 2.4ghz processor not the 2.26 not that it matters all that much...

Thanks for the heads up gus...

 

[gus6464]

Agreed, I have been through Ram issues before on my servers as well... Won't be nothing new, so I'll do my homework and see what has worked for others before I get another stick...

I edited my original post, I got the 2.4ghz processor not the 2.26 not that it matters all that much...

Thanks for the heads up gus...

Download cpu-z and it will tell you the exact timings of the dell ram so then you can just buy a stick from newegg with the same or faster timings.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

My absolute favorite ram right now is gskill. They have very good prices, lifetime warranty, and use good chips (samsung). And if you ever have any issues you can contact their rep directly at the xtremesystems.org forums for fast replacement.

 

[Warpdrv]

Thanks buddy.... I will use that....

 

[yettitheman]

OP is troll.. at least for now.

Dell- "buzzer no sound" Have them at work... nothing but piles of ****. Power supply this, motherboard that... at least the new ones we have now are fast when there isn't anything wrong with them (cough) power supply (cough).

HP- Good luck with them in the past. Started buying them after Packard Bell stopped selling systems in the mid-late 90's. Two desktops and two laptops later, I would recommend them to anyone. Minor problems here and there, but nothing that wasn't sorted out.

Anymore, I just build it myself.
I have 3 main systems right now, although I think my main workstation is on it's last legs. I also have 2 servers, and a collection of other crap too big to list.
Seriously, I would run out of text.

Have 2 laptops, but one is my fathers that is in my possession as the battery is dead. Mine has a dead battery as well.. but I got it for $50.
Compaq V2000 for $50... not to shabby.


/rant before this turns into a sex and the city dialogue between women talking about comically misshapen fruit

 

[Audioholics]

Vista = Windows Me.

Windows 7 is now scheduled to come out June 2009. Anyone who actually buys Vista willingly is going to feel pretty stupid within a year. Stick with XP if at all possible.

Microsoft screwed up big-time and they know it, which is why all of a sudden you can purchase XP downgrades at Dell, etc.

 

[jonnythan]

Vista = Windows Me.

No way. Dead wrong. Vista is actually a very, very good OS.

Windows ME was a pathetic monstrosity. It was the slowest, most unstable OS Microsoft ever put out. Vista is stable, smart, and fast.

The only thing wrong with Vista is its reputation.

 

[emorphien]

Vista = Windows Me.

Hardly. In fact not at all. Having dealt with both there is no comparison.

Reputation and poor initial 3rd party driver support are the only really significant problems Vista has or had.

 

[gus6464]

After using vista for 3 weeks now I am going to have to agree with jonnythan and emorphien on this. Vista can be a very stable and speedy OS if installed correctly. I only have 2gb of ram on this machine and vista is running just as fast as XP did. When it comes to the consumer machines the bloatware they preinstall is what's really hurting vista's reputation and performance.

I also have been trying out ESET NOD32 antivirus 64bit and I must say it is absolutely superb. It only uses 10mb of ram to run and is extremely fast in scanning. When my trial ends up I will be subscribing to the retail version. It's spyware detection isn't as good as Kaspersky but that's what spybot and adaware is for. BTW the new adaware 2009 free is much improved over previous years.