Do some amps have a warmer sound than others?

[imola ghost]

I was just wonder if there are differences in each amps characteristics. I have a very accurate, neutral speaker and was wondering if an amp could/would introduce some audible sound differences.

 

[Adam]

Some people will argue adamantly that properly designed amps can sound different, while others will argue just as adamantly that properly designed amps will not sound different.

If this thread gets attention from both sides, you might get to see some interesting remarks.

As for my thoughts? I don't know if they do.

EDIT: Well, tube amps can sound warmer because of their electrical characteristics. I was talking about solid-state amps.

 

[zhimbo]

Tom Andry, associate editor for Audioholics:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/NSQ-4-myths-and-legends

First topic: "Electronics have a sound"

 

[jamie2112]

Tom Andry, associate editor for Audioholics:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/NSQ-4-myths-and-legends

First topic: "Electronics have a sound"

I love that guy!!! He tells it like it is and is right..... Thanks Tom for keeping it real and keeping the "Audiophiles" in line.......

 

[fmw]

Pro audio people have known for a long time that vacuum tubes can produce audible harmonic distortion and that distortion tends to deliver sound with slightly rolled of high frequencies. That's why tubes are popular in products like microphone preamps. In fact they are almost universal in preamps used for recording the human voice.

The same holds true with home audio. Most tube amps will product the audible distortion as well. Not all of them but many of them.

However, using an amplifier to roll off high frequencies is silly. Why? because amplifiers that produce audible distortion will do so without any way to adjust it or defeat. Tone controls are better because they are adjustable and defeatable. If you like rolled off high frequencies use the tone controls.

Another approach in home audio is to crank up the subwoofer. Adding more low frequency content brings the average frequency response down.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think all good amplifiers will sound the same. Processors (tone controls, DSPs, EQs), speakers, and room acoustics will change that sound.

The amplifiers will differ in their measured specifications (frequency response linearity, THD, SNR, Crosstalk, Damping Factor, Output Impedance), build quality, and aesthetics.

 

[imola ghost]

Thanks for the information.

 

[itschris]

I played around with my sytem quite a bit.. granted not all of it was sophisticated or double blind, just open minded observations.

I hooked up 2 channel with my Elite 94, vs my standard setup using my Sunfire Amp, and also had dug out my old Adcom 555II 200x2.

There wasn't a great deal of difference that I could detect or that would make me say once was very much better or even different, but I will say that I noticed "some" difference... most of which is very hard to quantify. I'd say the Adcom was a bit brighter, more in your face sounding. I noticed it on tracks that had a lot of treble sound like cymbals. I would say that the Sunfire was more laid back, less fatiguing. I think it just sounds a bit more fluid or liquid-y. The amps from the Elite sounded very much like the Adcom, but seemed to give up just a little bit of detail at very high volumes... again I noticed it in the trebel when cymbals played. You didn't hear as distinct a sound... more like continuous whoosh of sound as opposed to a distinct crisp crack of continued sound. This was extremely subtle and only on certain parts of music when I was really paying attention when I thought I may have heard a difference. Taking into consideration the time it took to right away swap to the wires to something else and re-listen, it's hard for me to say for sure.

These are all very subjective comments and I chose words that make sense in my head to describe what felt I was hearing. I really can't say that I would be unhappy or happier with either configuration. It all sounded very good to me and I was very pleased no matter what I hooked up, so take it for it's worth.

Again, this is just an opinon, but I think people sometimes mistake a "good sounding" amp for what it is because compared to more budget based power, amps or amp sections in higher end equipment may not have the muddied signal pat that budget based stuff may have. My thought is that the higher end you go, it becomes very difficult to hear differences because they're all so clean and unadulterated in what they do. I read professional reviewers discussing nuances between $10k amps. They're a lot better than me. In my limited experience of having higher end stuff to sit and listen to, I'm just not able to tell the difference or detect nuance like that.

So there you have my 2 cents based on my own equipment. After 3 paragraphs, I don't think I ended up saying much or coming to any conclusion or even answered you question, but I hope it helps in some way.

 

[mr-ben]

I have three different amplifiers, and I have tried these amps on several different types of speakers in my home, spending hours listening to different combinations. I can say that each amp has a different sound with each speaker, and that some combinations are much better than others.

 

[cornelius]

First off, an amp can make audible differences with your speakers - my only question is, how do you characterize your speakers as being accurate? A lot of speakers are far from being accurate, especially those which mess with the time domain, but that's a different thread...

I've heard differences in amps (and I've not heard differences). Sure, I believe placebo effect and other perceptions are a factor - I see it every day when I'm at work. Cable-wise I still have yet to hear consistent differences, but for me amps are a different story. I know there are DBT's, but as one well respected designer (who uses blind testing in the design process of his amplifiers) - many of them are improperly conducted.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

On those rare occasions when I have heard (tiny) differences between amps, it has always turned out to be a result of not having the volume levels exactly matched.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would say that the Sunfire was more laid back, less fatiguing.

I kind of feel the same way about my Denon vs Acurus: I felt like the Denon was less fatiguing. The volume I listen to (~ 85dB A) is about the same with both amps. But for some reasons (placebo or not) I just feel like the Denon is less fatiguing. With the Acurus I felt a little exhausted after 2 hrs, but with the Denon I could listen for 4 hrs and not be exhausted.

Like you said, it's very SUBJECTIVE, and I wouldn't go against the editors of The Audio Critic or Audioholics. But the important thing is to like what we HEAR and stick with what we PREFER, even if it's all subjective.

 

[jamie2112]

Well put. I feel like my Denon is less fatiguing than my separates. I have a tube preamp and a Acurus A250 amp that runs my B&Ws but when I switch to the Denon it sounds a little smoother. The tube amp really brings out the Mids which can be fatiguing after a while......

 

[rnatalli]

I would say generally you may notice hair differences, but certainly not enough to care. Time is better spent investigating speakers.

I will say that when you get into class AB vs. H vs. Tubes vs. D, it gets little fuzzier. But to say a $500 Yamaha receiver sounds brighter than a $500 Pioneer receiver, it just doesn't make sense to me. Sure, one may distort and clip sooner than the other, but at normal levels, I just don't hear it.

 

[jamie2112]

I can say that I cannot tell a difference between receivers. But that being said I have heard a lot of totally different sounding tube pre's and tube amps. But that is the nature of tubes, SS I can't tell but tubes, yes I Can hear an audible difference.....

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I can say that I cannot tell a difference between receivers. But that being said I have heard a lot of totally different sounding tube pre's and tube amps. But that is the nature of tubes, SS I can't tell but tubes, yes I Can hear an audible difference.....

That makes sense. Solid state amps reproduce the signal accurately, so that there is only one way for them to sound. Tube amps produce audible distortion, so there is room for variation on the amount and type of distortion.

 

[bandphan]

The whole tube amp sound has become a bit skewed in recent years. While historically tube products produced more distortion which was audible, newer high end tubes have a tendency not to have the highs rolled off as with older units wich were limited to avialable components. Some modern offerings have a linear output resembling ss units, resulting in like sound. IMO, if one wants the tube sound, older gear or dyi is going to provide it. There has also be arguments to some amps in class d producing inharmonic distortion, causing an audible distinction in their sound. Most modern midfi gear being designed similar sound similiar. We get too caught up in trying to figure out wether we can hear mathematical differences instead of picking speakers that we know has a sound we like.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Sorry to get way off subject here but did you end up getting the PJ without telling me?

I kind of feel the same way about my Denon vs Acurus: I felt like the Denon was less fatiguing. The volume I listen to (~ 85dB A) is about the same with both amps. But for some reasons (placebo or not) I just feel like the Denon is less fatiguing. With the Acurus I felt a little exhausted after 2 hrs, but with the Denon I could listen for 4 hrs and not be exhausted.

Like you said, it's very SUBJECTIVE, and I wouldn't go against the editors of The Audio Critic or Audioholics. But the important thing is to like what we HEAR and stick with what we PREFER, even if it's all subjective.

 

[fmw]

I know there are DBT's, but as one well respected designer (who uses blind testing in the design process of his amplifiers) - many of them are improperly conducted.

Yes, but the properly conducted ones come up with the same answers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sorry to get way off subject here but did you end up getting the PJ without telling me?

**hee**hee

I got the 120" Screen first, Greg. It's the GrayWolff II Fixed Frame, which retails for around $700. I got it for $300 total. Not bad.

My friend is almost done with getting me that deal for the projector. However, that original price I told you about was TOO GOOD to be true. It's actually $3,500, but I'm getting it anyway because the retail price from an Authorized Dealer (to get the 3 yr Warranty) would be $6,000. However, I don't have it in my hot little hands yet. My friend had to jump through a few hoops and hurdles for this deal. Pain in the a$$ for my friend. He probably wished he hadn't made me that offer.

Oh, yeah, so anyways, most amps don't differ much, but some amps do.