Bad Day....

[Warpdrv]

Lucky man! Just about the only "in" that I'd have with a dealership:

Dealerships are a dime a dozen... just don't put up with their tactics....

Walk in there and give them $200 over invoice... even $100 over and don't budge...
They make money on the deal through kickbacks and possibly financing, you get a fair deal, and everyone walks away happy... Of coarse that all depends on the car, stock and other points you can use for leverage...

Im not an expert, but I also don't walk in the door acting like a Jack A$$ and find you attract more bee's with honey if ya know what I'm sayin...

 

[gus6464]

Hey warp would you happen to know anything about the 2009 Accord Diesel? When I went to test drive the Accord a while back I asked the dealer but he knew nothing about it. I have been reading online that the European version which has the same engine the US is getting is hitting 52MPG highway. While the 2.2L diesel only puts out 150HP, on the torque end it will put out a damn hefty 260lb-ft.

 

[Davemcc]

I love sports cars... Just don't have the $bling$ for a Vette at this point in my life...

I'm glad to see that you came out of that crash is good shape. I know that even minor accidents without injuries can be quite nerve racking and that one looks pretty bad by any account.

On the bright side, this is the perfect time to be Corvette shopping. There are about 8,000 unsold '08 Corvettes on dealer lots right now and '09 production has already started. GM is currently offering 0% for 48 months on Corvette coupes. Look at is this way, the v6 Accord with Nav retails at $31,675 plus whatever their retail financing rate is at the time. Dealers are blowing out '08 'Vettes at invoice, about $41,000 + 0% (for a 1LT coupe). After financing, the Corvette is not that much more expensive, but it is one holy heck of a lot more car. Plus, the Vette will still get 30MPG on the highway and has an absolute ton of luggage space for long, comfortable road trips (ask me how I know about long road trips).

Before you decide to give up the Corvette, it wouldn't hurt to take one for a spin at your local dealer before the incentives run out. If your local dealer won't deal, I can link you to some highly regarded and highly competitive online dealers that can hook you up with the right deal.

 

[Warpdrv]

Hey warp would you happen to know anything about the 2009 Accord Diesel? When I went to test drive the Accord a while back I asked the dealer but he knew nothing about it. I have been reading online that the European version which has the same engine the US is getting is hitting 52MPG highway. While the 2.2L diesel only puts out 150HP, on the torque end it will put out a damn hefty 260lb-ft.

I haven't read anything on the new diesels, my first cars were rabbit diesels, which were very affordable, but they were maintenance whores.... good mileage though... The price of diesel is a good deal higher then gasoline right now, and will likely continue this trend.... The oil companies are seriously taking advantage of the consumer and businesses in the diesel market where the production and refining process takes far less steps and effort then gasoline, but they continue to maintain a higher price at the pump...

I'm glad to see that you came out of that crash is good shape. I know that even minor accidents without injuries can be quite nerve racking and that one looks pretty bad by any account.

On the bright side, this is the perfect time to be Corvette shopping. There are about 8,000 unsold '08 Corvettes on dealer lots right now and '09 production has already started. GM is currently offering 0% for 48 months on Corvette coupes. Look at is this way, the v6 Accord with Nav retails at $31,675 plus whatever their retail financing rate is at the time. Dealers are blowing out '08 'Vettes at invoice, about $41,000 + 0% (for a 1LT coupe). After financing, the Corvette is not that much more expensive, but it is one holy heck of a lot more car. Plus, the Vette will still get 30MPG on the highway and has an absolute ton of luggage space for long, comfortable road trips (ask me how I know about long road trips).

Before you decide to give up the Corvette, it wouldn't hurt to take one for a spin at your local dealer before the incentives run out. If your local dealer won't deal, I can link you to some highly regarded and highly competitive online dealers that can hook you up with the right deal.

Thanks Davemcc, I'll have to take a swing by a dealer and have a look. Not sure if budget would allow a 10K price increase at this point in my life.... But I love the vettes, and have no problem takin one for a spin... I did have the chance to take one for a spin a few weeks back... a customer had a really nice convertible and that thing was a monster... I would get into a ton of trouble with a car like that...

 

[Davemcc]

Using the Honda's list price, less $6500 down at Honda's 3.9% for 48 give the Honda a payment of $567.30 not including taxes.

If you could get the Corvette for $41K, $6500 down at 0% the Corvette would be $718.75 not including taxes. So the Vette goes for about $150/month premium over the Accord.

I know the base assumptions are a bit uneven, comparing Honda's list price vs. an estimated selling price for the Vette. Also, I'm taking about a base Vette coupe w/o Nav, etc. Here's an example from a VERY well respected internet dealer specializing in Corvettes that delivers nationwide. http://www.evschevroletcorvetterandomlake.com/VehicleDetails/994636334 (It looks like this car has some options, optional wheels at least and leather it looks like. This car would be $767.95 with the above assumptions. Oh, and this dealer is in Wisconsin too.)

430Hp, 6speed manual, keyless push button ignition, removable targa top, tire pressure monitoring system, run flat tires, HUD, low 12 second quarter miles, unbelievable corner carving ability. This is a screaming bargain right now that rarely comes around.

 

[Warpdrv]

Hehhehe Funny you should mention EVS... I know Ernie Von Schledorn personally, shrewd business man, who has now turned it all over to his kid/kids. One of his dealerships is 3 mins from my house... hhehehe

Have you priced out run flat tires for the vette lately... ouch...

I recently drove by that dealership, and you wouldn't believe how many vettes they have sitting on that lot... Don't get me wrong I really love the vette, I just know its not in the cards for me right now, not that I can't stretch it.

BTW financing isn't a long term thing for me... I will buy the car with half down and pay it off in a year, 2 max... so its not an extended financing situation, so as to save money... There are other reasons that I am not willing to buy a corvette right now, mainly ethical along the lines of the messages I will be sending to the people who work for me, I respect them, and I want continue to earn and gain their respect.

 

[Davemcc]

There are other reasons that I am not willing to buy a corvette right now, mainly ethical along the lines of the messages I will be sending to the people who work for me, I respect them, and I want continue to earn and gain their respect.

Nothing says you respect the American worker like driving a Honda...What?...I didn't say that...Did I say that out loud?....

 

[WmAx]

Dealerships are a dime a dozen... just don't put up with their tactics....

Walk in there and give them $200 over invoice... even $100 over and don't budge...

From what I understood from an old news article(unless I am just senile and remembered things wrong), invoice is a B.S. value. It is some kind of theoretical cost of the car to the dealer if they only bought 'one' unit or some non-sense such as that. I tend to believe that, as those $100 over invoice' deals are pretty popular in my area - and it simply does not make any economic since to me that they could stay in business with a 1/2% return on their money, even with the kickbacks from financing, or other extras.

Just look at the values that used cars get at car auctions vs. the retail sale price, or even the trade in value you are given vs. the re-sale value - the margin is pretty good. I highly doubt it's much smaller for the new cars.

-Chris

 

[Warpdrv]

I won't argue with you on any of your points Chris.... I have seen tons of cars go for less then "INVOICE" which completely supports the information you are talking about. If they weren't making money they wouldn't be in business.... I have a number of friends in the banking business and have access to a good amount of cars coming off lease, as well as customers that in the same situation.

If I didn't want a specific make and model I would head to the used market...
I tend to get 10 years out of my cars, so I don't mind going new, but if something that comes along in the near future I won't rule it out... I am a bit on the frugal side.

 

[annunaki]

Warp,

I really like the '09 Accord Coupe. Very sporty looking. It looks like they are trying to compete with the BMW coupe crowd with this model.

As for the audio system, what you will want to do here is get the JL Audio Clean Sweep with the Signal Summing Device. This will allow you to utilize the factory source/nav/electronics while outputting a completely flat signal to new external amplifiers. You will also need to replace the speakers and treat the areas accordingly for quality sound reproduction (if using the factory locations, i.e reduce/control resonances improve imaging etc.)

Remember, 90% of the sound in car audio is from the installation and intergration of the components.

I can help you select components along the way if needed as well.

 

[gus6464]

Warp,

I really like the '09 Accord Coupe. Very sporty looking. It looks like they are trying to compete with the BMW coupe crowd with this model.

As for the audio system, what you will want to do here is get the JL Audio Clean Sweep with the Signal Summing Device. This will allow you to utilize the factory source/nav/electronics while outputting a completely flat signal to new external amplifiers. You will also need to replace the speakers and treat the areas accordingly for quality sound reproduction (if using the factory locations, i.e reduce/control resonances improve imaging etc.)

Remember, 90% of the sound in car audio is from the installation and intergration of the components.

I can help you select components along the way if needed as well.

What speakers do you like? I have always been a fan of Infinity and have a pair of Kappa components for the front and Kappa 6x9 for the rear. I wish I would have bought Kappa Perfect at the time but now they are discontinued.

 

[annunaki]

I like the Infinity, but they are a tad bright in an automobile with all the reflections. I really like the JL Audio XR Series components. Diamond Audio has had some nice ones as well. I also like Alpine's higher end components. I have a three way set from them from 2005 that were really nice. One of the best sets I have heard in a vehicle, even though it was my own. I think the model was something like SPX-177? They were type X series components. All of the drivers are Vifa/Scanspeak variants.

 

[gus6464]

I like the Infinity, but they are a tad bright in an automobile with all the reflections. I really like the JL Audio XR Series components. Diamond Audio has had some nice ones as well. I also like Alpine's higher end components. I have a three way set from them from 2005 that were really nice. One of the best sets I have heard in a vehicle, even though it was my own. I think the model was something like SPX-177? They were type X series components. All of the drivers are Vifa/Scanspeak variants.

Alpine Type-X? Expensive

 

[annunaki]

I just checked they were the Alpine SPX-F17T. It was a three way component system with single/bi/tri amp capabilities. I never used the crossovers though since I did a full active system. The system went for $800.00 at the time.

SPX-F17T

Manual for speakers

 

[annunaki]

Alpine Type-X? Expensive

The ones you have pictured are not the same ones from the time I purchased mine. Those are imitation F#1 Status speakers. Not that they are bad or anything.

 

[Matt34]

I like the Infinity, but they are a tad bright in an automobile with all the reflections. I really like the JL Audio XR Series components. Diamond Audio has had some nice ones as well. I also like Alpine's higher end components. I have a three way set from them from 2005 that were really nice. One of the best sets I have heard in a vehicle, even though it was my own. I think the model was something like SPX-177? They were type X series components. All of the drivers are Vifa/Scanspeak variants.

I agree with Annunaki assement of the Infinities and the XR series. I had the XR components in my 350z and liked them but for the price I think you can do better. Right now the Boston Acoustics that I have in my truck are my favorite components to date (Alpine Type R coxials in rear door), matched up with dual 10" Treo SSI subs I really couldn't ask for more in a auto sound system.

 

[randyb]

From what I understood from an old news article(unless I am just senile and remembered things wrong), invoice is a B.S. value. It is some kind of theoretical cost of the car to the dealer if they only bought 'one' unit or some non-sense such as that. I tend to believe that, as those $100 over invoice' deals are pretty popular in my area - and it simply does not make any economic since to me that they could stay in business with a 1/2% return on their money, even with the kickbacks from financing, or other extras.

Just look at the values that used cars get at car auctions vs. the retail sale price, or even the trade in value you are given vs. the re-sale value - the margin is pretty good. I highly doubt it's much smaller for the new cars.

-Chris

Factories generally have holdbacks on the dealer that are not reflected on the invoice. They are usually released annually as I understand. Also, sometmes there are certain dealer incentives on certain models that are not typically shown on the invoice nor information released to the public. I do think you can get most of that information from Consumer Reports website if you are a member.

 

[annunaki]

I agree with Annunaki assement of the Infinities and the XR series. I had the XR components in my 350z and liked them but for the price I think you can do better. Right now the Boston Acoustics that I have in my truck are my favorite components to date (Alpine Type R coxials in rear door), matched up with dual 10" Treo SSI subs I really couldn't ask for more in a auto sound system.

I have heard great things about Boston's components for years. I always forget about them.

I have heard Dynaudio's in the past with good results as well.

I can tell you that after having a fully active system it is difficult to go back to anything else. The effortless dynamics are simply amazing. With the Alpine three-way system I has 75 rms x 4 for the tweeters & midranges and 150 rms x 2 for the mid-basses. All in all 600 watts rms for the setup with 1000 rms for the sub.

I am considering making some home speakers out of that system after bringing this up again. They did sound quite good.

 

[Warpdrv]

Warp,

I really like the '09 Accord Coupe. Very sporty looking. It looks like they are trying to compete with the BMW coupe crowd with this model.

As for the audio system, what you will want to do here is get the JL Audio Clean Sweep with the Signal Summing Device. This will allow you to utilize the factory source/nav/electronics while outputting a completely flat signal to new external amplifiers. You will also need to replace the speakers and treat the areas accordingly for quality sound reproduction (if using the factory locations, i.e reduce/control resonances improve imaging etc.)

Remember, 90% of the sound in car audio is from the installation and intergration of the components.

I can help you select components along the way if needed as well.

Thanks Buddy.... I have been out of the Car Audio loop for quite some time, so i can imagine that there are alot of improvements over that period of time. I haven't listened to or heard any car speakers, and any guidance is certainly welcome and very helpful... although this is no hurry, as I don't even have the car yet, but it gives me the chance to do my homework.

I have read that some people have used the MTX reQ-5 with great success, and it combines both the JL products into 1 unit. What are your feelings on that. The less clutter the better IMO. If I'm off base here, please feel free to correct me... I would be looking to keep installation as small/unobtrusive, neat, and clean as possible.

I'm not looking for the SPL's I am getting at home, but generally much better SQ, although I'm sure the SPL will be far louder then stock.

What kind of wattage do I look for in a 4 channel amp?
What brands do you suggest?
What are your thoughts on thin subs, perhaps something like the JL 13TW5? Something else?

Thanks buddy...

 

[annunaki]

Thanks Buddy.... I have been out of the Car Audio loop for quite some time, so i can imagine that there are alot of improvements over that period of time. I haven't listened to or heard any car speakers, and any guidance is certainly welcome and very helpful... although this is no hurry, as I don't even have the car yet, but it gives me the chance to do my homework.

I have read that some people have used the MTX reQ-5 with great success, and it combines both the JL products into 1 unit. What are your feelings on that. The less clutter the better IMO. If I'm off base here, please feel free to correct me... I would be looking to keep installation as small/unobtrusive, neat, and clean as possible.

I'm not looking for the SPL's I am getting at home, but generally much better SQ, although I'm sure the SPL will be far louder then stock.

What kind of wattage do I look for in a 4 channel amp?
What brands do you suggest?
What are your thoughts on thin subs, perhaps something like the JL 13TW5? Something else?

Thanks buddy...

That device is definitely not a Cleansweep. It's primary function was to restore bass. I am not aware it corrects full bandwidth response.

The Cleansweep will get to within +/-1db 20hz-20Khz with nearly any vehicle. JL provides actual system correction graphs of before and after response. Remember that the before graphs are the electrical signal reaching the speaker, not the speaker's response. It uses a digital 31 band eq in order to restore response and auto audjusts itself to level it out. The problem with factory audio is not just rolled off low frequencies but the entire audio spectrum. The device itself is quite small and both can easily be hidden under a dashboard, beneath a seat, etc.

75 x 4 should be fine in most vehicles and systems for power. I am a big fan of JL amplifers as they are simply done right. No fluff, just things that matter. R.I.P.S power supplies, effective heat sinking, low noise, quality parts, great flexibility, etc. High power, transparent, low noise, linear amplification.

I will have to model the 13TW5 and get back to you on that. The W6v2 is the choice for me in a true sound quality type setup. It is one of the most linear subwoofers on the market bar none.

I am not a fanboy even if it may seem like it. They just do things right and they do it well. Some of it is a bit more expensive, but how many companies hold as many patents as they do for stuff that actually makes the product better? In the car audio world, I can tell you it is very few.