Tchaikovsky on blueray 7.1 Master HD

[David Gaudreau]

Yeah took me 4-5 discs to get it right. Stupid Burner!!!! Or is it the user??

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah took me 4-5 discs to get it right. Stupid Burner!!!! Or is it the user??

I'll say it again. That kind of DRM is totally unreasonable! You can't expect BD to be anything other than niche, if you have to go to that much trouble to play a disc you just bought.

If this is to be a go, then there needs to be a new standard for BD. The standard: - NO MORE DRM CODE CHANGES. If it can't be as hassle free as DVD, then it's a dud and will wither on the vine.

 

[allargon]

I'll say it again. That kind of DRM is totally unreasonable! You can't expect BD to be anything other than niche, if you have to go to that much trouble to play a disc you just bought.

If this is to be a go, then there needs to be a new standard for BD. The standard: - NO MORE DRM CODE CHANGES. If it can't be as hassle free as DVD, then it's a dud and will wither on the vine.

Dream on... AACS (required on every stamped Blu-Ray disc) was designed expecting to be broken. They often reissue new keys (even if there is no publicized breach). BD+ is another animal I don't care to discuss right now.

I'm glad the OP is getting Panasonic to resolve the issue. Some discs are more problematic than others. HD DVD (and so did DVD back in the day) had its problem discs, too.

 

[TLS Guy]

Dream on... AACS (required on every stamped Blu-Ray disc) was designed expecting to be broken. They often reissue new keys (even if there is no publicized breach). BD+ is another animal I don't care to discuss right now.

I'm glad the OP is getting Panasonic to resolve the issue. Some discs are more problematic than others. HD DVD (and so did DVD back in the day) had its problem discs, too.

Well then people are nuts to buy the discs and players. I will have nothing to do with it.

Apart from that, this kind of activity is illegal, and clearly violates existing fair use laws.

We all need to lobby our congressional delegations to have existing laws enforced and new ones drafted to prevent this sort of activity.

I think there are also grounds here for a class action lawsuit against the sewers pushing this outrage.

 

[dobyblue]

That is always the advice given with that issue. What a pox! I don't want a game player, or a BD player that is a tower. It is about time the other manufacturers got the balls to take the studios on, and make players that ignore these stupid DRM codes. Sony obviously have with the PS3 and that has undercut the arguments of the fancy lawyers representing the absolute sewers inhabiting Hollywood.

Sorry, but you seem to have an axe to grind on this issue and don't seem to be providing much useful information at all, which is not the norm for you.

Yeah took me 4-5 discs to get it right. Stupid Burner!!!! Or is it the user??

It's the burner or the user. TLS Guy would have you believe that somehow the DRM is responsible for it taking 4 or 5 different discs to get a firmware upgrade to work, which is ridiculous.

I have a DV45a and I can't play Queensryche's "Empire" DVD-Audio disc on it. I suppose I should boycott all DVD's now too....or I could allow my Pioneer dealer to send it in for a 2006 firmware upgrade that was released!

God, I'm glad with my Blu-ray player I can just allow it to update over the internet.

Also Surround Records aren't using BD+, so if they've got a set of AACS keys that Panasonic aren't aware of it's a fluke and you can expect that to be an aberration. Panasonic Hollywood Lab are the biggest patent holder in Blu-ray technology and they also do the encodes for all of Disney and Fox's movies as well as numerous others. They provide the busiest testing facility for all the OTHER software and hardware providers to check compatability.

Did you take your disc to your local AV store to see if it plays on other DMP-BD30 units or other BD-players?

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry, but you seem to have an axe to grind on this issue and don't seem to be providing much useful information at all, which is not the norm for you.



It's the burner or the user. TLS Guy would have you believe that somehow the DRM is responsible for it taking 4 or 5 different discs to get a firmware upgrade to work, which is ridiculous.

Yes, I do have an axe to grind. It's a perfectly straightforward consumer rights issue. In my view a customer should be able to purchase a disc, go home and play, without having to worry about burning a disc or whether his vendor has the latest software for download with the code of the week. And I don't care if this comes down the Internet or not. He still has to worry about the code of the week being in the download.

And of course its the DRM that made him have to burn discs! Without this nonsense he would not be burning any discs.

I just can't believe how many members are prepared to roll over to Hollywood and shout UNCLE!

Yes, I'm really steamed about it. I'm glad I have a big enough collection of music, I could quite happily avoid all digital formats if I had to and be quite content.

I will NEVER support BD as long as this nonsense is attached to it.

 

[dobyblue]

Seems a little convenient that you've neglected to acknowledge the issue I'm having with a disc on my DV-45a Elite SACD/DVD-A player, which is not a Blu-ray player. I should have been able to buy that disc, go home and play it right? Well I haven't been able to play it and I bought it almost a year ago. The reason I haven't done anything about it is I intend to upgrade to a 980H once I've managed to secure a 5308CI receiver.

In addition, you make it sound like the studios DID NOT do something to try and stop you from copying their product? Arcoss anyone? That seemed to meat up just about every DVD ripping software when The Forgotten came out.

Plus it's not DRM that's made him burn those discs - you have no idea what the issue is with this ONE disc that he's using. It could be a fault on that one particular disc, a fault with that one particular title, etc., etc. You assume too much.

Firmware 1.5 was to do with an LFE level issue, not DRM, on that particular model.

Code of the week? Far as I can tell the AACS keys have been changed ONCE.

Perhaps if everyone BOUGHT discs and then used them in whichever manner they wanted DRM wouldn't be necessary, but if you think even 10% of people who download software like AnyDVD and the like are using it legitimately, you're dreaming.

Plus the studios are only trying to protect the HD version. They're often including a DVD with a free digital copy of the SD version for you to use as you see fit.

I'm guessing that when you're lawnmower craps out after one month that you're going to never cut your lawn again because your consumer rights have been offended? Your arguments are not sustainable.

 

[TLS Guy]

Seems a little convenient that you've neglected to acknowledge the issue I'm having with a disc on my DV-45a Elite SACD/DVD-A player, which is not a Blu-ray player. I should have been able to buy that disc, go home and play it right? Well I haven't been able to play it and I bought it almost a year ago. The reason I haven't done anything about it is I intend to upgrade to a 980H once I've managed to secure a 5308CI receiver.

In addition, you make it sound like the studios DID NOT do something to try and stop you from copying their product? Arcoss anyone? That seemed to meat up just about every DVD ripping software when The Forgotten came out.

Plus it's not DRM that's made him burn those discs - you have no idea what the issue is with this ONE disc that he's using. It could be a fault on that one particular disc, a fault with that one particular title, etc., etc. You assume too much.

Firmware 1.5 was to do with an LFE level issue, not DRM, on that particular model.

Code of the week? Far as I can tell the AACS keys have been changed ONCE.

Perhaps if everyone BOUGHT discs and then used them in whichever manner they wanted DRM wouldn't be necessary, but if you think even 10% of people who download software like AnyDVD and the like are using it legitimately, you're dreaming.

Plus the studios are only trying to protect the HD version. They're often including a DVD with a free digital copy of the SD version for you to use as you see fit.

I'm guessing that when you're lawnmower craps out after one month that you're going to never cut your lawn again because your consumer rights have been offended? Your arguments are not sustainable.

Laughable! This is what's laughable!

I just love this: - Share the Vision! Newspeak if ever I saw it.

This whole DRM thing is a gigantic failure, and only inconveniences the legitimate customer. The studios need to give up here like they have in China, and issue discs at a price where there is no percentage for the pirates.

As far as your DVD A in concerned, I can't comment. I thought it was a dead system and I have no DVD A discs.

The lawnmower example is ridiculous. I know of no lawn mower manufacturer trying to sell me a mower with the strict intent of preventing me mowing my grass. I any event my main mower is 50 years old. My smaller rider is 27 years old. One push mower is 10 years old and the other walk behind push mower is 5 years old. The fifty year old is the least trouble and has a seventy two inch cut from the three point PTO deck.

My turntables are also 50 years old. We need to go back and learn a thing or two from those guys! Rest assured I won't stop mowing grass. I love it! The sound of the 29 horse two cylinder John Deere 420 tractor is music to the ears. I look forward to it every week. I can admire and bask in the glory and workmanship of a bygone age while seething at the moderns, as I motor up and down the beautiful Benedict lake shore.

The tractor in my avitar is 60 years old. It keeps and maintains the roads, and stacks up gigantic snow piles in the winter. The popping of the two cylinder Waterloo engine can be heard for miles! We have squandered our heritage of late.

I bet I would have no trouble buying a lawnmower at Walmart that would be useless in a month. Bloody moderns!

 

[jostenmeat]

TLS guy, can you explain why everything works so smoothly for me?

I respect your posts, even if they can be uncompromisingly blunt to others. I also respect your highly attuned consumer-rights-BS meter. Its a noble motivation, on the behalf of all of us.

But everything is working great!!!!

But, for argument's sake (and maybe you find it downright laughable), lets say I had two choices in my town as far as restaurants. One has amazing food, and poor service. The other has ok good, and excellent service. Depending on who you ask, some will prefer one over the other. Id probably go for the better food. Heck, there's a restaurant near me with excellent food and terrible service. I have to make sure I get everything in when I order, because it can easily be a half hour before the waitress comes back. I use this laughable analogy, because a well mastered Bluray completely blows a well mastered DVD out of the water in terms of picture quality. Granted, I use a high quality projector on an enormous screen in a room with good light control.

The things is I feel that I am getting fine service along with my amazing PQ. I've downloaded FW only once, with the very specific reason of fixing the -5db cut I had. That's the only reason. Ever. Period. WORKS GREAT!!!!!'

I love it.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS guy, can you explain why everything works so smoothly for me?

I respect your posts, even if they can be uncompromisingly blunt to others. I also respect your highly attuned consumer-rights-BS meter. Its a noble motivation, on the behalf of all of us.

But everything is working great!!!!

But, for argument's sake (and maybe you find it downright laughable), lets say I had two choices in my town as far as restaurants. One has amazing food, and poor service. The other has ok good, and excellent service. Depending on who you ask, some will prefer one over the other. Id probably go for the better food. Heck, there's a restaurant near me with excellent food and terrible service. I have to make sure I get everything in when I order, because it can easily be a half hour before the waitress comes back. I use this laughable analogy, because a well mastered Bluray completely blows a well mastered DVD out of the water in terms of picture quality. Granted, I use a high quality projector on an enormous screen in a room with good light control.

The things is I feel that I am getting fine service along with my amazing PQ. I've downloaded FW only once, with the very specific reason of fixing the -5db cut I had. That's the only reason. Ever. Period. WORKS GREAT!!!!!'

I love it.

I'd cook my own!

However the issue is, that even though it is working now, you at the whim of decisions by AACS.

The whole situation is daft.

I meant to include that link before and that tale IS really laughable. I don't want the possibility of being held hostage by AACS. That is rather different to poor service. It is the potential for capricious denial of service that I will not swallow.

Anyhow I think you understand where I'm coming from.

I have certainly been served dirty by HDMI HDCP codes on this issue. Vista is another issue. The constant shadowing to make sure you are not a criminal adds to energy consumption greatly. In fact I understand the greater part of the energy used by the processor is consumed with that task.
I do professional digital editing. This involves the use of ASSIO drivers. You can not use these with Vista, as the DRM keeps disconnecting them.

I find there is far to much infringement of personal rights with these DRM schemes. I really think something needs doing about it. It will be a hot button issue for me until something IS done about it. I know I have lots of good company on this. Just read that Wikki post in the link.

I hope these people are right.

 

[dobyblue]

As far as your DVD A in concerned, I can't comment.

I thought as much, it's too pertinent a piece of evidence for you. It directly contradicts your thesis of how media should work and how Blu-ray is the odd man out.
You sound like you're using the Wookie defense.

 

[dobyblue]

However the issue is, that even though it is working now, you at the whim of decisions by AACS.

Utter nonsense.

The whole situation is daft.

I meant to include that link before and that tale IS really laughable. I don't want the possibility of being held hostage by AACS. That is rather different to poor service. It is the potential for capricious denial of service that I will not swallow.

Anyhow I think you understand where I'm coming from.

I have certainly been served dirty by HDMI HDCP codes on this issue. Vista is another issue. The constant shadowing to make sure you are not a criminal adds to energy consumption greatly. In fact I understand the greater part of the energy used by the processor is consumed with that task.
I do professional digital editing. This involves the use of ASSIO drivers. You can not use these with Vista, as the DRM keeps disconnecting them.

I find there is far to much infringement of personal rights with these DRM schemes. I really think something needs doing about it. It will be a hot button issue for me until something IS done about it. I know I have lots of good company on this. Just read that Wikki post in the link.

I hope these people are right.

I don't think anyone knows where you're coming from.

AACS may soon be removed altogether, there's very little need for it, it doesn't work and it merely costs the independant studios money.

It sounds like you have more issues with Microsoft than you do with Blu-ray.

 

[dobyblue]

TLS guy, can you explain why everything works so smoothly for me?

That's rhetorical I'd assume.

I respect your posts, even if they can be uncompromisingly blunt to others. I also respect your highly attuned consumer-rights-BS meter. Its a noble motivation, on the behalf of all of us.

Not really, the people that want to do whatever they want with 1080p24 Blu-ray Discs can use AnyDVD, there's no-one being affected right now to the extent that TLS Guy would have you believe.

The things is I feel that I am getting fine service along with my amazing PQ. I've downloaded FW only once, with the very specific reason of fixing the -5db cut I had. That's the only reason. Ever. Period. WORKS GREAT!!!!!'

I love it.

I'd expect nothing less from Panasonic's Blu-ray products - they have two more lined up to announce at CEDIA it looks like, as well as Yamaha bringing out a player.

In this day and age, anyone that thinks they're going to be "held hostage" by the studios, particularly someone who claims to be computer-savvy, is on a personal vendetta as they should know that everything can be circumvented.

Even BD+ is designed only to thwart piracy during the few weeks leading up to a release and the few weeks following. There's a very big title coming up this Christmas that will thwart the backing up of said title for a few weeks, and that's just enough to solve the problem of about 90% of the piracy as that's when it occurs.

From where I'm standing the most firmware updates required, outside of the PS3 which is getting firmware upgrades for plenty of reasons outside Blu-ray, is Samsung. I don't see that as being a fault of AACS, of the BDA, of Panasonic, of Sony or anyone other than Samsung for putting out product without making sure it's up to spec.

Yes, the Blu-ray spec changes, just like DVD did back in the day. Did you first player support dts audio? Heaven forbid!!!!

Drama abounds.

 

[TLS Guy]

I thought as much, it's too pertinent a piece of evidence for you. It directly contradicts your thesis of how media should work and how Blu-ray is the odd man out.
You sound like you're using the Wookie defense.

Not at all. I'm against the whole DRM situation as a whole. I'm just as opposed to your DRM problem as any of the others. If you look at my last post you will see I'm against not just BD and the possibility of being held hostage, but especially the HDMI HDCP codes, which have done the dirty on me, and also the DRM associated with VISTA, which makes it impossible for me to use that operating system. I hope DRM does wither on the vine. I think there is a good chance it will, and good riddance. I'm quite consistent about this. I will never be in favor of DRM. It is a fundamental infringement on the rights of the innocent and wholly unwarranted and unjustified.

You will not convince me otherwise, and that goes for an awful lot of others world wide.

 

[dobyblue]

No, I'm not saying "I think" that AACS may be removed, I'm saying there are actual talks within the BDA to move forth without it.

The independant studios are paying $1,000/title to use it and because it's currently mandatory, there's no choice.

And I don't care to convince you one way or the other about Blu-ray, what I care about is someone reading your posts that thinks the world may end someday if they buy Blu-ray, which is certainly not the case.

The first two years of DVD players were pretty damn buggy, if you want a player that plays everything when you get home either wait until a new format is in its third or fourth year or get connected to the internet, firmware upgrades are just as easy as Windows Upgrades and if you think only a small percentage of the population knows how to do those, you're wrong. It's the same thing.

Molehill = Mountain.

 

[TLS Guy]

Utter nonsense.


I don't think anyone knows where you're coming from.

AACS may soon be removed altogether, there's very little need for it, it doesn't work and it merely costs the independant studios money.

It sounds like you have more issues with Microsoft than you do with Blu-ray.

I think its perfectly plain where I'm coming from. I'm opposed to DRM in ALL its guises. My reasons are sound, logical and based on experience and ethics.

I fail to understand why you are so keen to surrender your rights to the Hollywood crowd, or anyone for that matter. I would say the dupes in Hollywood are slow learners. Of course DRM does not work, just severely hampers the innocent as they go about their work and leisure And that is all I have to say on the matter for now.

 

[dobyblue]

I haven't surrendered any rights - I still use my BD's, CD's, DVD's, SACD's, VHS', etc., the same way I always have.

I pay for the movie, I watch it. I pay for the music, I listen to it. Big wheel keeps on turning.

 

[PENG]

It is a fundamental infringement on the rights of the innocent and wholly unwarranted and unjustified.

I am not sure about the "rights" thing, but we most likely are paying more for nothing.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am not sure about the "rights" thing, but we most likely are paying more for nothing.

I said I would "Say no more!" However you are dead right about this. The consumer has paid through the nose for this fiasco.

If you add all the license fees, and they are extortion, the cost of development for the manufacture, the cost of factoring in for software up grades for this foolery and the increased energy cost of driving the extra circuits, its colossal. I bet it has added at least 30% to each unit.

Yes, the whole mess of DRM has been an extortion racket and I don't think most of it actually legal either.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

PS3 compatibility

Are you sure it's not one of those Digital Copy?

When I first got 'Alien Vs. Predator 2" (or was it "I, Robot"?), I put in the Digital Copy disc, not realizing that there were 2 discs (1 BD and 1 Digital Copy).

I read another example of how "Rambo BD" was not playable on the Panasonic and some Samsung, but was playable on the PS3. Well, I know it's playable on my Denon DVD-3800BD.