Shame on you Denon!

[brulaha]

I always knew their products were priced at a premium. In the case of their receivers in someways I think their price is justified. Not in the sense that they necessarily sound better, but they work properly and have the features I'm interested in. However, my opinion of them was perhaps downgraded today:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9967991-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

 

[chadnliz]

If you dont like it dont buy it, sounds easy enough to me.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I always knew their products were priced at a premium. In the case of their receivers in someways I think their price is justified. Not in the sense that they necessarily sound better, but they work properly and have the features I'm interested in. However, my opinion of them was perhaps downgraded today:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9967991-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

Lucky for you, you live in a Capitalist society . That is why companies such as BJC exist

 

[jamie2112]

That was very enlightening. I think Denon receivers are great but I wouldn't buy a cat 5 cable for 500 bucks. That is just plain stupidity..

 

[corey]

That is just plain stupidity..

It's not just the stupidity of some one purchasing the cable. It's the stupidity of their management, thinking I'll buy another receiver from a company that does this. My current receiver is a Denon, and up until now they would have had the inside track on my next purchase, but not now.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you dont like it dont buy it, sounds easy enough to me.

That's not the point. This sort of nonsense highlights a real problem. The issue is that it highlights a severe problem in western society. People seem at this time to be able to graduate from high school and universities without even a rudimentary knowledge of not only the physical sciences but critical thinking skills. They are then gullible fools and we are getting full of them on these forums.

Now just take the critical thinking aspect of this Ethernet cable. Is any one going to think the net is built round high priced cable? The next thing is that anyone with an elementary knowledge of chemistry would know that copper is an element, and that you can not change its atomic structure.

So I think we have fallen so low, that now most university graduates could not define an element or a compound and tell you the difference. 50 years ago, I can tell you that was not true.

Well what's the harm. The harm is immense! It means avaricious lunatics get to be in charge of companies that know nothing about the products they make. Worse, people who know nothing of the physical world around us, but who have degrees in marketing and advertising, get to control the few engineers and scientists who really are the ones who we need to look to for real innovation.

The result is that the engineers feel prostituted, which they are, and become dispirited. They become starved of funds for R & D. Those funds are diverted to the kind of nonsense, highlighted in this thread. The overpriced ad men know that we now live in a world that is awash in ignorance of the physical world around us, and can be made to believe almost anything. They can make a fast dishonest buck. The world is starved of innovation and we don't make the progress we could or should.

So yes, we should cry out and and react to this nonsense. Above all we should demand better education, not only for our children, but life long education for all.

Knowledge IS power!

 

[davidtwotrees]

Gosh, I don't know, guys. One of the posts below the article said a Denon rep at a trade show said other vendors were offering these cables so why not them? Let the buyer beware. Snake oil is nothing new. People have been buying it for millenia. There was probably a cave man who sold the "magic" flint for starting that "special" fire.
As to the dumbing down of American college grads........Years ago only the best, brightest and truly motivated went to college. And the wealthy......Now everyone goes to college, weather they should or not. You can't make an MD or an Engineer out of someone who has the intelligence of a ditchdigger or a shop keeper.........or isn't motivated to educate themselves.........It is certainly a quandry as all these children used to have meaningful jobs to do in the trades and industry, but those jobs are all gone overseas, or just disappeared due to automation......

 

[Rickster71]

This sort of nonsense highlights a real problem. The issue is that it highlights a severe problem in western society. People seem at this time to be able to graduate from high school and universities without even a rudimentary knowledge of not only the physical sciences but critical thinking skills. They are then gullible fools and we are getting full of them on these forums.

Well said, TLS.
It can't be summed up any better than that.
Critical Thinking Skills are most vital.

As to the dumbing down of American college grads........Years ago only the best, brightest and truly motivated went to college. And the wealthy......Now everyone goes to college, weather they should or not. You can't make an MD or an Engineer out of someone who has the intelligence of a ditchdigger or a shop keeper.........or isn't motivated to educate themselves......

Also, well done, David.
Please, stop; the two of you are making too much sense.

 

[mouettus]

It's not just the stupidity of some one purchasing the cable. It's the stupidity of their management, thinking I'll buy another receiver from a company that does this. My current receiver is a Denon, and up until now they would have had the inside track on my next purchase, but not now.

Are you serious?! Up to the point of disqualifying Denon from future purchases? I mean... I don't like Denon for its looks and lack of user friendliness (IMO), but not because they sell snake oil! They are still a good company nonetheless. I, myself, bought an 80$ 12ft Energy HDMI cable couple of years ago when I wasn't educated enough. And now they make Energy Conoisseur HDMI cables............... but I still bought their C-100s, RC-10s, RC-70s, RC-LCR, RC-R and ESW-V10 speakers...

 

[MinusTheBear]

This is just the nature of competitive markets at work. Denon has just entered into the market of snake oil.

 

[Rickster71]

I suppose you can't blame Denon.
There is much money to be made, from people that just, Want To Believe.

 

[TLS Guy]

Are you serious?! Up to the point of disqualifying Denon from future purchases? I mean... I don't like Denon for its looks and lack of user friendliness (IMO), but not because they sell snake oil! They are still a good company nonetheless. I, myself, bought an 80$ 12ft Energy HDMI cable couple of years ago when I wasn't educated enough. And now they make Energy Conoisseur HDMI cables............... but I still bought their C-100s, RC-10s, RC-70s, RC-LCR, RC-R and ESW-V10 speakers...

Yes, I think he is serious. Denon have prostituted themselves, and taken the low road. The high road is proper consumer education and not hype and BS. This sort of activity does nothing to advance progress. Good companies are built on honesty, ethics and the development of good quality innovative products. This cable is garbage. The high road is explaining the nature of digital packets of information and error correction.

Their approach encourages ignorance, so they can sell any garbage. Have you seen how rapidly these forums are degenerating into nonsensical babble lately?

 

[BMXTRIX]

How can people not feel both ways about this. I mean, logically to most of us here we just scream - "WTF! Denon... don't go down the path and become a new MonsterBose!" Denon has a long earned reputation as a maker of quality electronics that they've sold at competitive prices taking on, and often raising the bar at the price points of their products. No cheap amplifiers, or junky electronics that cut corners, but generally extremely well engineered product that has thousands of A/V enthusiasts awaiting CEDIA every year for the newest toys from them.

So, it makes sense that this 'exotic' cable claim, which makes most of our stomachs turn over, is a huge disappointment to all.

Yet, how can we ignore the fact that the exotic cable companies are making buckets of cash? Seriously, if someone is making stupid money on cables, shouldn't that company use some of those profits to research and develop other products which are actually price competitive and of high quality for the money to consumers? We see all this money going to Monster and Bose and other overpriced products, yet those companies give very little to nothing back at all. Why not let Denon take a bit away from Monster, and maybe that can help next years A/V receivers be just that much better. Or maybe those guys will just pocket the extra cash...

But, I would rather see that cash go to Denon than a long list of other companies.

NOT that I would be so foolish as to buy into their snake oil business.

Tough call, but IMO, when you are in the CE business, and snake oil is an incredibly profitable part of that business, it would be a poor decision not to take part in it at some level. The consumer still should do their homework, and with the Internet it's not always that difficult to get solid information and unbiased reviews.

 

[MinusTheBear]

As a company Denon has the right to charge this much for this cable and as a consumer we have the right not to buy it. Simple as that.

 

[mouettus]

As a company Denon has the right to charge this much for this cable and as a consumer we have the right not to buy it. Simple as that.

And a company has the right to make a sh**load of money on the back of misinformed ppl?!

 

[TLS Guy]

How can people not feel both ways about this. I mean, logically to most of us here we just scream - "WTF! Denon... don't go down the path and become a new MonsterBose!" Denon has a long earned reputation as a maker of quality electronics that they've sold at competitive prices taking on, and often raising the bar at the price points of their products. No cheap amplifiers, or junky electronics that cut corners, but generally extremely well engineered product that has thousands of A/V enthusiasts awaiting CEDIA every year for the newest toys from them.

So, it makes sense that this 'exotic' cable claim, which makes most of our stomachs turn over, is a huge disappointment to all.

Yet, how can we ignore the fact that the exotic cable companies are making buckets of cash? Seriously, if someone is making stupid money on cables, shouldn't that company use some of those profits to research and develop other products which are actually price competitive and of high quality for the money to consumers? We see all this money going to Monster and Bose and other overpriced products, yet those companies give very little to nothing back at all. Why not let Denon take a bit away from Monster, and maybe that can help next years A/V receivers be just that much better. Or maybe those guys will just pocket the extra cash...

But, I would rather see that cash go to Denon than a long list of other companies.

NOT that I would be so foolish as to buy into their snake oil business.

Tough call, but IMO, when you are in the CE business, and snake oil is an incredibly profitable part of that business, it would be a poor decision not to take part in it at some level. The consumer still should do their homework, and with the Internet it's not always that difficult to get solid information and unbiased reviews.

Lets look at this another way. Here is a quote from that cables product literature.

"Additionally, signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer."

Now Denon know very well it does not matter which direction current or information passes down a copper cable. There is a simple term for that. It is called lying.

We are becoming a society founded on lies. Lies break trust. It is not a stretch that a new DENON product may in fact be of far less quality then they maintain. There is no justification for lying and your response attempts to justify it.

We should all feel deeply ashamed as a society, that we are educating people in a way that there are enough people to swallow the lie for them to make money with it. If you think about it for a moment, that is an abysmal failure all the way around.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But, I would rather see that cash go to Denon than a long list of other companies.

Excellent point!

Would you guys rather have Denon (D&M) be sold to Best Buy?

D&M needs to fix their financial state. Apparently they are in some slight trouble. They need to put more cash flow into the company.

I won't be buying these $500 cables, but I won't mind seeing Bill Gate buying them either.

Let's keep the money in D&M, instead of Monster, Kimber, Vampire Wire, and every other Snake-oil cable company, so that D&M can continue to crank out excellent products.

 

[MinusTheBear]

And a company has the right to make a sh**load of money on the back of misinformed ppl?!

Unfortunetly you are right, it is just the nature of the world we live in. The only thing we can do is not support these companies.

 

[Geno]

"Additionally, signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer."

Now Denon know very well it does not matter which direction current or information passes down a copper cable. There is a simple term for that. It is called lying.

There'd the heart of the matter, TLSGuy. Too bad we don't have the power to call out every one of those lyin' snakes that perpetuate all the snake-oil drivel out there.

 

[chadnliz]

That's not the point. This sort of nonsense highlights a real problem. The issue is that it highlights a severe problem in western society. People seem at this time to be able to graduate from high school and universities without even a rudimentary knowledge of not only the physical sciences but critical thinking skills. They are then gullible fools and we are getting full of them on these forums.

Now just take the critical thinking aspect of this Ethernet cable. Is any one going to think the net is built round high priced cable? The next thing is that anyone with an elementary knowledge of chemistry would know that copper is an element, and that you can not change its atomic structure.

So I think we have fallen so low, that now most university graduates could not define an element or a compound and tell you the difference. 50 years ago, I can tell you that was not true.

Well what's the harm. The harm is immense! It means avaricious lunatics get to be in charge of companies that know nothing about the products they make. Worse, people who know nothing of the physical world around us, but who have degrees in marketing and advertising, get to control the few engineers and scientists who really are the ones who we need to look to for real innovation.

The result is that the engineers feel prostituted, which they are, and become dispirited. They become starved of funds for R & D. Those funds are diverted to the kind of nonsense, highlighted in this thread. The overpriced ad men know that we now live in a world that is awash in ignorance of the physical world around us, and can be made to believe almost anything. They can make a fast dishonest buck. The world is starved of innovation and we don't make the progress we could or should.

So yes, we should cry out and and react to this nonsense. Above all we should demand better education, not only for our children, but life long education for all.

Knowledge IS power!

Knowledge is power, knowing that a free market lets a company make and market a product that the public can accept or reject is the way this and other countries work, I can see you think you are a pretty smart guy but the American (and world) business model trumps you everytime. As noted earlier, if you dont like it then dont but it and move on to something productive as standing on a soap box serves nothing but your ego. Cheers