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usfscaptain14

Enthusiast
I'm about to embark on a major spending spree which im sure i'll regret when the bill's come. What I've learned from this site is to make the speakkers the priority. With that heres where Im at.

I want a 7.1 system for movies in Blu Ray. But I want to also listen to everything from Classical to Metallica. I'm going to start with purchasing the main's and then complete the 7.1 ...

The room is 500sqft it's 20x23x8. My inital thought was to go with Axiom 80's but Now I'm leaning on B&W"S. I have not the time to audition speakers so I will make this desicion based on research and advice.

I'll start with this.

1. What B&W main will allow for great performance for all types of music and perform great in a 7.1 set up?
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
I would have to say go out and listen to many different B&Ws as they all sound great. I love my B&Ws and they are an investment for sure as they are not cheap. Just go listen and you will find what you are looking for.
 
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usfscaptain14

Enthusiast
That will not be an option. I live to far from any decent stores and my work schedule is crazy.
 
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jamie2112

Banned
Well then I guess you should look at the 800 series and pick out something from that range as to my ears they are the best B&W series. All the B&Ws that i have listened to move air and sound great from classical to metal and everything in between. You should know the B&Ws like lots of power. Not that they don't sound great with your average receiver but add an amp and they sing man. Best of luck to you...
 
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EJ1

Audioholic Chief
You can't go wrong with B&W in my book. Amazing sounding speakers and aesthetically pleasing. You've got a PM btw.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Its a tough call when you can't audition. Have you checked out the 'hearing things' forum at Axiom to see if there is somebody close by that will give you an audition?

The Axiom M60 is very close in sound to the B&W 701 at a much more favourable price. I'm not sure where the M80 fits in. The nice thing about Axiom is that the QS8 is an exceptional surround speaker.

Can you return the B&Ws if you really don't like them?

Fred
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Its a tough call when you can't audition. Have you checked out the 'hearing things' forum at Axiom to see if there is somebody close by that will give you an audition?

The Axiom M60 is very close in sound to the B&W 701 at a much more favourable price. I'm not sure where the M80 fits in. The nice thing about Axiom is that the QS8 is an exceptional surround speaker.

Can you return the B&Ws if you really don't like them?

Fred
Where did you hear this?

SheepStar
 
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AdrianMills

Full Audioholic
You should know the B&Ws like lots of power. Not that they don't sound great with your average receiver but add an amp and they sing man.
Seriously people! I so wish people would stop posting such utter drivel!

The older B&W series like your Matrix were heavier to drive for sure but even so, B&W do not need any more power than your average 8ohm, 90dB sensitivity speaker. And like your and any other average 8ohm, 90dB sensitivity speaker, the power they need will depend on how loud you want them to go, how big and lively your room is, and how far you sit from them.
 
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usfscaptain14

Enthusiast
So a pioneer 94thx or a Yammy 1800 would be fine for running 704's in my situation?
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
If you are serious about wanting a true high-fidelity system, and for a reasonable budget, you need to forget many of the conventional recommendations. Number 1 realization: you need to realize most recommendations are based upon COLORED/DISTORTED speakers and how such color/distortion might fit with a person's preference(s). This is a dead end approach to selection, and will only result in a system that is somewhat close to what one likes, and with no real way to modify it or adjust precisely to your true ideals.

For highest performance for your budget, you need the most neutral speakers with the most inert cabinet systems(which are a major source of timbre distortion/coloration) that will within your budget. In addition, you need DSP loudspeaker management hardware that will allow you to precisely control/adjust the neutral speakers to obtain any sound you so desire. I know this sounds expensive, but it really is comparable to the price many pay for mediocre systems based around mediocre colored/distorted speakers such as the Axioms referenced in this thread.

I'll go into more detail if you are truly interested.

-Chris
 
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jamie2112

Banned
more controversy

Oh I am sorry Adrian I didn't mean to upset you. I didn't say that B&W wouldn't be fine with a regular receiver. All I said was they like power. If you do not agree than you must be listening at low volumes. I hooked up a 250 watt a channel acurus amp to the 804s and the 602s and both took on a whole new sound. Meaning" the power amp made them sing " as compared to 110 watts a channel denon 3802. Yes it is true that B&W don't NEED more power than other 8ohm speakers but they also sound 100 percent better with more power.That being said I still think B&W are the best speakers out there for MY ears.
 
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Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
The B&Ws comparable in price to the Axioms would be the 600 series. This is also their best bang/buck line. The others are better if price is no object, but a lot more expensive.
 
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AdrianMills

Full Audioholic
Oh I am sorry Adrian I didn't mean to upset you. I didn't say that B&W wouldn't be fine with a regular receiver. All I said was they like power. If you do not agree than you must be listening at low volumes. I hooked up a 250 watt a channel acurus amp to the 804s and the 602s and both took on a whole new sound. Meaning" the power amp made them sing " as compared to 110 watts a channel denon 3802. Yes it is true that B&W don't NEED more power than other 8ohm speakers but they also sound 100 percent better with more power.That being said I still think B&W are the best speakers out there for MY ears.
Dude, "upset" is a little strong ;)

As for your comment on me listening at low volumes I'll quote what I said earlier;

AdrianMills said:
like your and any other average 8ohm, 90dB sensitivity speaker, the power they need will depend on how loud you want them to go, how big and lively your room is, and how far you sit from them.
If I remember correctly my denon has driven my 804S to 98dB peaks at 3M with a master volume of -12; at least it was no more than -10 as I've set my receiver to limit the volume to max -10. I'd put money on it that I could reach peaks of 105dB @ 3m too. And you know what 105dB is don't you?

And guess what, if I had a 250W amp, yes I could go louder by maybe 3dB but at 105dB it would sound exactly the same as my receiver. Want to bet?

Now, if you think that is a "low volume" I'd like to disagree.

BTW, I'm still amazed that there are people out there that still haven't got it that unless you double blind or at the very least single blind test, statements like, "I hooked up a 250 watt a channel acurus amp to the 804s and the 602s and both took on a whole new sound. Meaning" the power amp made them sing " as compared to 110 watts a channel denon 3802" are absolutely meaningless as far as comparing amps is concerned.

And yes, I agree that B&W have some of the best sounding speakers out there.
 
D

Demonster

Enthusiast
wmax, please be my guest and elaborate....
I second the notion! I am in the same quandry and only through an obsesive amount of reading the many forums out there have I begun to rule out the axioms which were y forst choice on reviews only - then they all started to sound the same. But without the same amount of work and obsesive reading I am not sure that any of the other choices are any better?!?!!!!!!! Do they have a thread out there like this one if you are looking for speakers?

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

This realy helped me pick the subs out based upon my preferences for home theater - and based upon my previous budget I can get 3-4 castles or 2conquests and double or quadruple the fun.
 
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usfscaptain14

Enthusiast
Demonster, Awesome read thank you! That is exactly what I need to see to help me muddle through the opinions and bias reviews. I'm now one peice down on my list. That really helped me decide What sub I want. Now I still need my mains and surrounds and Reciever.

Jason
 
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usfscaptain14

Enthusiast
WmAx or Adrian,

Would you care to giive an educated opinion about the 704's or B&W's in general for my purpose staed in the first post?

Thanks!
Jason
 
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AdrianMills

Full Audioholic
WmAx or Adrian,

Would you care to giive an educated opinion about the 704's or B&W's in general for my purpose staed in the first post?

Thanks!
Jason
The 704 are relatively nice speakers but I didn't like them enough to want to buy them. In fact I wouldn't buy any of the B&W that didn't have FST drivers; I think there are a bunch of FST based B&W speakers now that are similarly priced or cheaper than the 704. You pay a lot for the cabinet design in the 700 series. The 703 is much nicer though and sounds very similar to the 804S.

I would never recommend that you buy speakers without first auditioning unless you have the possibility of returning them.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
wmax, please be my guest and elaborate....
Put primary effort into acquisition of the most neutral speakers you can afford in the budget. People like to often tell you to go listen, but this has no gain as compared to my suggestion, when the speakers in question are standard monpolar radiation pattern with other standard features, and credible 3rd party analysis can verify measured performance of sufficient data points. In fact, following my method, you can end up with something that better fits your preference, since you get to have direct control over this variable. The primary thing differing between most speakers is the frequency response. Usually, you are merely picking speakers based on this primary aspect. There are other, extremely important considerations, but not many speakers actually have substantial advantages over one another in these areas. Two such very important, but rarely exploited areas of meaningful improvement are: (1) low resonance cabinets (2) off axis response closely resembling off axis response.

The best speakers of which I am aware, overall, for a budget oriented system, are the Ascend Seirra 1 and B&W 705, with the 705 having superior over-all linearity. Both have somewhat lower resonance cabinets than most other speakers in their class. The 705 would be the ideal here, but it does cost 2x more than the Sierra, which compromises somewhat in overall linearity. But both are linear enough to be used successfully when paired with a loudspeaker management system. If further savings are needed, one can inject a little elbow grease, and purchase a speaker with superb linearity such as the Ascend CBM-170(on par with the B&W 705 in this regard) that sells for a very low price($350/pair). The problem here is the cabinet is highly resonant, just like most speaker systems. Cabinet resonance causes a coloration on all sounds played through the speaker - thus is a form of distortion. You can, if you are up to some work, you can modify the internals of such a speaker as the CBM-170, and end up with a highly linear speaker with very low resonance cabinet for very low cost. I can elaborate if requested to do so.

A high precision loudspeaker management system allows for one to control with high precision, the frequency response(one of the main differentiators among common speakers), using various filter functions. The management system also allows for custom, variable crossover types/rates/points in order to ideally integrate sub woofers seamlessly, but ideally, you need to use stereo subwoofers as opposed to mono, due to the ideal 1/2 wavelength or closer distance related to crossover frequency, required for optimal integration of two sound sources. The Behringer DCX2496 is the lowest priced management system suitable for hi-fidelity purposes(no noise, distortion or other artifacts when used properly).

In order to use a loudspeaker management system as suggested above, you need to have a way to insert it between the pre-amp and amplifier stages. Most recievers have no such facility. However, you can use many recievers as fine qualty pre-amps and feed outboard amplifiers, inserting the management system between these two points. You can also opt to purchase seperate surround pre-amp/selector unit such as Emotiva offers. However, many recievers have fine quality pre-amp sections, and offer superior HDMI abilities(conversion between video connections, upscaling, etc.).

-Chris
 
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