Plasma TV is Dead - Pioneer Exits

[JackT]

Wow! Don't mean to sound like Woody Allen here, but ya'll realize none of us will be walking this planet in a few decades right? (aasuming you're in your late 30's or 40's) you might want to put things into perspective. It's a TV people...settle down!

Well then why bother with any of it? TVs, websites, discussions, you reading this, etc? Yes, after all, the sun will explode someday.

If it's important enough to write a "Plasma is Dead" article, then it's important enough for a few comments, no? If you don't mind terribly, that is.

 

[croseiv]

. Plasma might be dead, but mine is alive and kicking........now if I could get the big network channels to stop looking like carppola on the panny!

I hear ya bro! I feel the same way.

 

[stratman]

Well, I didn't like the title, seeing as I just finished setting up a panny plasma a week before! Smiles. It's all good. The best part was yesterday my Polish neighbor and his brother, who are both about 6'4" 275#, walked in, gave me $400 cash, and picked up my 250# Sony Rear Projection TV like it was nothing and walked out with it. I didn't cry one tear..........
My side firing Canton's just opened up another notch sonically! They had been "firing" into the side of that giant TV for some time now. Plasma might be dead, but mine is alive and kicking........now if I could get the big network channels to stop looking like carppola on the panny!

I say you need HD content, fast!

 

[1tribeca]

Well then why bother with any of it? TVs, websites, discussions, you reading this, etc? Yes, after all, the sun will explode someday.

If it's important enough to write a "Plasma is Dead" article, then it's important enough for a few comments, no? If you don't mind terribly, that is.

True enough...I'm just saying relax. I'm surrounded by KUROs all day...I'm gonna miss 'em more than most, but I take comfort in the fact that something better will be along hopefully sooner than later. It's just a TV. Perhaps in a couple short years, OLED will be spectacular.

Hey, it's been 41 years since the Leafs won a Stanley Cup...we're all still breathing. Patience. God they suck!!!

 

[Biggiesized]

Modern plasmas don't suffer from burn-in because of features like the picture orbiter. They are, however, still susceptible to image retention.

 

[Davemcc]

Hey, it's been 41 years since the Leafs won a Stanley Cup...we're all still breathing. Patience. God they suck!!!

Medical science is not advancing rapidly enough for you to see the Leafs win another Cup.

3D holographic TV, maybe. Lord Stanley's Cup in Hogtown? Fuggetaboutit.
The closest the Leafs will get to the cup will be viewing it with a paid admission to the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I say you need HD content, fast!

I'm on the fence. My cable was "on" when I moved here. So the price is "free". I don't watch a lot of tv......and money is tighttighttight. Also, I am north facing so can't do a dish. Comcast sucks. I am waiting for ATT to bring in their entry to the HD programming. The trucks have been working in the utility ducts underground here for some time. I think they are doing HD optical out there...........Then I will bite as they have good packages for HD and Internet. Does anyone have ATT HD (non dish)?

 

[audiovideobob]

Plasma is dead

Hi Clint
I'm just wondering if you are prepared to respond to the title of your article,since it is not true that plasma is dead.Pioneer is simply going to out source their panels.Not uncommon in this business.They are also expanding by going to smaller flat panels using LCD technology.

 

[GuyClinch]

Honestly I suspect the poster is right..

I bought a new TV - and it was the "horrible" LCD.

Why? The gap between LCD's and Plasma's is narrowed - to the point where against the best LCDs I had to stare a bit to tell which one was an LCD and which one is a a Plasma.

I do think Plasma is better but it's not a huge gap especially with the nicer LCD screens. They have really improved black levels and with LED backlighting have the ability to SURPASS Plasma.

That leaves motion blur - with the 8MS panel it's a problem but my experience with LCD monitors has taught me that around 2MS it's "good enough"..

So why did I go with LCD?

1) Image retention.

I just don't want to WORRY about it. I game. Icons stay in place for HOURS at a time. My g/f is playing Pixel Junk Monsters right now and it sticks an ICON in there and just sits there for hours and hours on end. I heard a Plasma owner screaming about this very problem.

I run windows on my screen as well - and that just sits there for hours and hours - the start menu.

2) Plasma experience.

Yes I never owned a plasma but while little LCD screens are around that look like crap - Plasma's FADE over time. I know because I see it every day. I see real estate offices with BADLY burnt in and faded large plasma screens. That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I can't buy into a technology like that.

With LCDs the back light will fail but in the meantime it's a pretty good picture till that happens.. With an LED backlighting it will probably NEVER fail. Those things could last 20 years.

 

[Pyrrho]

Modern plasmas don't suffer from burn-in because of features like the picture orbiter. They are, however, still susceptible to image retention.

Nonsense. If they were not subject to burn-in, they would have a warranty for it. Also, you might want to talk to this guy about his burn-in problems:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42394

 

[Biggiesized]

Nonsense. If they were not subject to burn-in, they would have a warranty for it. Also, you might want to talk to this guy about his burn-in problems:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42394

We don't even know for sure that his screen has a burn-in problem. There is a difference between that and image retention. He didn't describe his problem in any detail amongst his enraged ramblings. Image retention should be correctable. Permanent burn-in damage shouldn't occur in modern sets because, as I mentioned earlier, they have functions to shift pixels to prevent the same image/logo from lingering in the same spot.

 

[Pyrrho]

We don't even know for sure that his screen has a burn-in problem. There is a difference between that and image retention. He didn't describe his problem in any detail amongst his enraged ramblings. Image retention should be correctable. Permanent burn-in damage shouldn't occur in modern sets because, as I mentioned earlier, they have functions to shift pixels to prevent the same image/logo from lingering in the same spot.

Most, if not all, of the manufacturers of plasma TVs disagree with you on this. Just do some reading of the manuals and warranty information and you will see them mention burn-in as something that they will not guarantee against. If it were not real, there would be no reason for them to mention it. And there would be no reason to specifically exclude it from warranties.

 

[MDS]

Pixel shifting mitigates the problem but does not eliminate it entirely.

Image Retention really only applies to LCD and is a phenomenon where the crystals have been in one state for so long that they are slow to respond to changes. It is not permanent and will go away if the set is turned off for a little while.

Image retention on a plasma or crt is really just a mild case of burn-in. Plasma excites phosphors on the screen and when the image is constantly changing they don't stay in one state very long. When they are constantly bombarded with the same color for a long time they retain their glow for a long time. It may go away or it may not - it's a risk that you must constantly guard against and that's just too much hassle given that nowadays every damn channel has constant network logos and ads.

 

[Alex2507]

Pixel shifting mitigates the problem but does not eliminate it entirely.

Image Retention really only applies to LCD and is a phenomenon where the crystals have been in one state for so long that they are slow to respond to changes. It is not permanent and will go away if the set is turned off for a little while.

.

My LCD listed in my sig. has burn in where the black bar on the right begins, so it's a vertical line about 3 or 4 inches in from the right. One of the local channels broadcasts in HD but the image is 4:3 with the bars. On regular channels I stretch the picture to avoid this burn in. It happened to me before and I did get a replacement in the 11th hour of the warranty. That line came back on the replacement set. I figured it was here to stay until I replaced the TV. It's only noticeable if a certain type of picture or shade is present on that side of the screen. Anyways, there is a way to make this go away? Just leave the TV off? Seems like there has to be more to it and I am here to learn.

 

[Biggiesized]

Most, if not all, of the manufacturers of plasma TVs disagree with you on this. Just do some reading of the manuals and warranty information and you will see them mention burn-in as something that they will not guarantee against. If it were not real, there would be no reason for them to mention it. And there would be no reason to specifically exclude it from warranties.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but you failed to address my post.

He may or may not have permanent burn-in.

 

[Biggiesized]

My LCD listed in my sig. has burn in where the black bar on the right begins, so it's a vertical line about 3 or 4 inches in from the right. One of the local channels broadcasts in HD but the image is 4:3 with the bars. On regular channels I stretch the picture to avoid this burn in. It happened to me before and I did get a replacement in the 11th hour of the warranty. That line came back on the replacement set. I figured it was here to stay until I replaced the TV. It's only noticeable if a certain type of picture or shade is present on that side of the screen. Anyways, there is a way to make this go away? Just leave the TV off? Seems like there has to be more to it and I am here to learn.

Are you sure it isn't a broadcasting artefact or a column of dead pixels?

 

[ChrisG]

Plasma isn't dead. but if Clint prefers LCDs, perhaps he's brain-dead

You heard it here first: Plasma TV is dead. As we predicted several years ago, plasma technology is on its way out. Putting one of the nails in the lengthy coffin is Pioneer Corp, who is stopping ALL production of plasma display panels. Last week we reported that they had decided to stop all 42-inch panel production, however that has now been expanded to its entire plasma line. Rather than panic, Pioneer shares immediately jumped to a four-month high following the report - up 11.2 percent. Pioneer is the world's fifth-largest plasma TV manufacturer and has constantly struggled for relevance against the larger Panasonic brand (Matsushita). Now, Pioneer will buy its panels from the competing brand and it will begin picking up LCD panels from... you guessed it - Sharp.

Well, Pioneer is not exiting the plasma business, so this news "flash" borders on a check-out counter gossip column. Additionally, I don't understand why Clint is so excited about LCDs when the picture quality is much better from plasma displays.

According to a Q&A Pioneer sent to dealers:

- Pioneer is outsourcing the production of plasma panels ONLY. Design, engineering and final assembly will still be done by Pioneer. Secondly, they discontinued the 42" plasma because of slow sales and it is cost prohibitive to make KUROS in the 42" size. Finally, they are going to continue to design and sell plasma displays that are 60" and up which are needed for home theater viewing in the North American market.

- Pioneer still believes that plasma offers the best picture from a flat panel display, so for critical viewing, they will continue to develop the KURO displays -- a premium set that they are marketing to a discriminating audience. LCDs will be sold for smaller, secondary viewing rooms like bedrooms, offices, kitchens, etc and they are partnering with Sharp on these.

- As for discontinuing making panels themselves, there won't be any production changes in 2008, the next generation KURO is already in production in Pioneer's factories. There will some glimpses of production changes in 2009 and even more changes in 2010.

- Pioneer is going to continue to design and engineer the displays and having someone else make the panels will allow them to invest money into innovations for the home theater category.

I'm glad I was able to talk to my dealer in order to get the real story since a KURO will probably be replacing my Panasonic plasma sometime in the near future.

 

[Gatsby191]

Simple Solution, I've done it 3 times already!

I have been to like 10 different BBs, CCs, PC Richards, Sears, etc, and I was able to do this simple side by side(well not exactly side by side)test on 3 occasions so far. Here it is: Took a certain Movie by Disney Pixar with talking CARS in it, and another certain movie with Bruce Willis in it (Live Free or Die Hard), and had them played on both a Plasma and a LCD.(both 1080P) One time with both sets playing the same movie, at the same time with the DVD signal split to both sets, and one time with seperate dvd player hooked up to each set. Not the sales person, not me, and not anyone else who happenned to catch this demo could deny that the PLASMAs had a better PQ no matter what brand set was used, and the screen sizes were all comparable too. BTW: Lighting was "normal" in every demo. The action was more on the money with plasma, the colors more vibrant, and every detail more precise. Of course this is only MHO, and everyone else's HO that witnessed these demos. I know I am going to hear about the lack of a demo on broadcasts, but in all honesty, the few Basketball games, or Soccer Games that I noticed on a few occasions, looked as sharp as ever on the Plasmas too. But the movie test told me everything that I needed to know in order to pick the winner in this LCD vs. Plasma dilema.
Take care all, Joe B.

 

[Alex2507]

Are you sure it isn't a broadcasting artefact or a column of dead pixels?

I don't think it's anything being broadcast because the line is there even when DVD's are played. Could be dead pixels. The only thing I'm sure of is that we just bought a Panasonic TH-50PZ77U.

I was only gonna buy an Elvis CD for my girl but the Tweeter was right beside the Borders.

 

[Audioholics]

Lighting was "normal" in every demo. The action was more on the money with plasma, the colors more vibrant, and every detail more precise. Of course this is only MHO, and everyone else's HO that witnessed these demos.

I personally like plasma better for theater use, however I also recognize that the 'flamethrower' settings they use in stores does NOT make for a good comparison. Ever. Unless you know what you are doing and bring a test disc to calibrate black levels, etc - LCD will almost always look washed out, though much brighter as well.