Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name.

[asahikasei]

Doesnt mean everything high end is like that.

No, then why can we not discuss companies and products that do?

 

[bandphan]

there is nada to discuss, as you have pointd out everything for us, thank you

start something new you want play games with

 

[asahikasei]

Secondly, How is the lexicon not superior? You can tell this by looking at a picture? I am an experienced electronics tech and I cannot.

We have been over this, where is the superior power/pre amp section that everyone siad the lexicon had?

You say that high end companies do a direct rebadge of other stuff or design it themselves and there is nothing special about it. You are assuming that a cheap peice of crap that uses +/- 15% carbon resistors and garbage PC boards is the same as something with a high quality PCB with something like the massive ground plane such as the MAC or Milspec metal film resistors and 105 degrees c capacitors etc are the same. You point out the analog section of the mcintosh. What did you expect to see? Platinum plated OPamps with mini heat sinks and superconductors connecting everything?

From the review of high end equipment and the price, yes I was expecting great things but now we know that the reviews and users lie about how much better their products sound.

That doesnt even take into account the chassis, the layout, the warranty, the astetics and just the overall quality.

Then we can discuss what the differences are but no one can say that is sounds better.

There are ALOT of high end products that are total crap. Just because something is expensive doesnt mean its good. There are also alot of products that are truly a peice of engineering and craftsmanship.

That is the whole point of this thread, we need to find out what is worthless and what is good. So again I ask what is the problem with that?

The Halcro and the Parasound processors are both relatively within the same price range. So its not really like saying Look, Its a bose lifestyle system and it uses the same parts as this 10,000 dollar processor. I have personally worked with that exact parasound processor and I was a bit dissapointed with the build on the outside. I hadnt opened it up but it didnt feel as hefty as I was expecting. I also thought the screen on the front was stupid and did not have good picture quality.

Parasound C1 = $6000, Halcro SSP100 = $10,000.

Basically you are pointing out some products on the market which in your original post show pictures of things that dont really explain anything period. Perhaps since you say that there is nothing special about them and keep asking for a reason why. Why dont you tell US why the pictures of the gear in your original post are no different than the average reciever.

I don't have to since we know it is not because of a superior power/pre amp section. So where does this huge sonic difference come from? No one can answer this question so there prpbably is no sonic difference.

Then you post links to audiogon ads about depreciation. And?... As far as im concerned thats good because those of us who cant just blow 10 grand on something perhaps can still afford to get it. You dont buy a nice car for the resale value. Or a computer, or a.......

I posted that to show people that the high end does not hold its value better.

 

[asahikasei]

there is nada to discuss, as you have pointd out everything for us, thank you

No there is a lot to discuss but no one is willing to do so.

 

[Seth=L]

No there is a lot to discuss but no one is willing to do so.

LOL, 9 pages and you say we aren't discussing it? WTF?

 

[asahikasei]

LOL, 9 pages and you say we aren't discussing it? WTF?

Since you and the rest of the members have not discussed anything that would mean we have a lot more to discuss. Yet everyone but me still refuses to discuss anything.

 

[Seth=L]

Since you and the rest of the members have not discussed anything that would mean we have a lot more to discuss. Yet everyone but me still refuses to discuss anything.

Ok, LOL, what is it you want to talk about right now?

 

[highfihoney]

Yet everyone but me still refuses to discuss anything.

It sucks to be you then dont it.

 

[bandphan]

are your feelings hurt cause we wont come out and play

my 5 year old talks less than you do and is more educated on how to present a discussion,

 

[mtrycrafts]

I am fighting fire with fire.

So, this is a forest fire you are trying to put out?

 

[Haoleb]

We have been over this, where is the superior power/pre amp section that everyone siad the lexicon had?

Once again, How is the lexicon not superior? I dont know how much clearer I can make it. You are saying time and time again it is not so surely there is a reason for this.

 

[highfihoney]

Then where does this huge sonic improvment come from?

What sonic improvement,who said this anywhere in this thread.

Only you have talked about sonic improvements,nobody else.

 

[highfihoney]

We have been over this, where is the superior power/pre amp section that everyone siad the lexicon had?

You keep saying "everyone" is talking about a superior preamp section,show me anywhere in this thread where anybody but YOU have stated this.

 

[highfihoney]

No one can answer this question so there prpbably is no sonic difference.

There ya go,YOU made your own proclaimations of better sound then claimed the proclamations as "everybody's",then YOU question the proclamations of better sound YOU made,now YOU answered YOUR own question to YOUR own proclaimation.


You win

 

[asahikasei]

Ok, LOL, what is it you want to talk about right now?

Why do people who buy/review high end products always talk about superior sound quality over basic receivers.

It sucks to be you then dont it.

What you do not say speaks more about anything.

are your feelings hurt cause we wont come out and play

my 5 year old talks less than you do and is more educated on how to present a discussion,

I have presented my side and as of yet not one has presented anything that goes against it.

Once again, How is the lexicon not superior? I dont know how much clearer I can make it. You are saying time and time again it is not so surely there is a reason for this.

We can see that it is not superior so if you think that it is please explain why.

What sonic improvement,who said this anywhere in this thread.
Only you have talked about sonic improvements,nobody else.

You keep saying "everyone" is talking about a superior preamp section,show me anywhere in this thread where anybody but YOU have stated this.

There ya go,YOU made your own proclaimations of better sound then claimed the proclamations as "everybody's",then YOU question the proclamations of better sound YOU made,now YOU answered YOUR own question to YOUR own proclaimation.

So you agree that there is no sonic improvment over a receiver, then why not say that.

I should make one more statement before I bow out of the thread. To me, at least, debating the issue is more compelling than attacking the poster. Obviously, nobody liked the post but the group's reaction was to insult the poster rather than to find flaws in the poster's argument. My own impression from reading the thread is that poster was probably right and nobody else liked the truth. That's an impression based only the behavior of those responding to the OP. I don't know if it's true or not. But you all should think about that a little.

Once again I will post this.

 

[Haoleb]

We can see that it is not superior so if you think that it is please explain why.

I cannot explain to you why is IS superior, and I dont remember ever saying it was. If I had designed it and know what parts were used i would be able to tell you one way or the other but your saying its not superior and you wont back that up with any factual reasons. You just keep saying that we can see its not. I couldnt see that its not. Just looking at that picture doesnt tell me that it is not. How does it tell you this.

 

[asahikasei]

I cannot explain to you why is IS superior, and I dont remember ever saying it was. If I had designed it and know what parts were used i would be able to tell you one way or the other but your saying its not superior and you wont back that up with any factual reasons. You just keep saying that we can see its not. I couldnt see that its not. Just looking at that picture doesnt tell me that it is not. How does it tell you this.

Sorry but you are wrong, we have an exact picture of the lexicon pre amp section and you are dodging the question. If the lexicon picture is not up to snuff then use the picture of the MX135/136 since it is very detailed.

 

[asahikasei]

That is yet another one of my questions, I am asking why/how is the pre amp section in the lex and mac superior, since that is what the owners and reviewers always say.

 

[Seth=L]

Why do people who buy/review high end products always talk about superior sound quality over basic receivers.

Maybe they like the prestige. I for one don't think that amplifiers and pre pros sound different enough to warrant the huge price tags. There is obviously a place in the market for them, because people are buying the stuff. It typically looks nice and usually credits the owner with some respect with fellow audiophiles or audio junkies. I don't care to own high end equipment such as that. I would spend good money for some stellar speakers. I would pick a receiver for a pre pro more than likely, unless there was a pre pro that offered more or better features for around the same price. Then I would buy something much like the Behringer EP2500 pro amplifier to power my top of the line or custom built speakers. I would never spend thousands on amplifiers and pre/pros. It does come at a price, it won't look as nice, and won't carry the prestige of the higher end system. But, regardless of all that I will be enjoying my music as much if not more so than the guy with the mono blocks and "danceable" cables.

Does that cover it? Or will you accuse me of not answering a question I never meant to answer?

 

[Seth=L]

That is yet another one of my questions, I am asking why/how is the pre amp section in the lex and mac superior, since that is what the owners and reviewers always say.

You may be very will right about their not being significant sonic differences to warrant the price differences. That doesn't stop others from drooling over some of the fine designs and craftsmanship of some high end amplifiers and preamps. Halcro makes some very sturdy equipment, as does McIntosh and Lexicon. I would say it's an artform. One of my personal favorites in fashionable equipment is Gryphon of Denmark, they make some of the most beautiful equipment in my eyes.

Other people love the vintage look of McIntosh, like HiFiHoney. Looking at their gear up close and personal is impressive. Is it my particular style, no, but it is stylish. It's much like the Rolex, the Prada, and other designer or high end products. Every industry has them. Audiophiles take pride in their fancy equipment, and when they feel better about their gear I think they bias their listening to that. Someone listening to their $20,000 system gives them the satisfaction that they chose the components and made a designated system to listen to music, would it sound better than a $2000 DIY by WmAx, more than likely not, but it's the excitement of collecting.