Question: Amp or No-Amp

[fmw]

The point is that by not driving it as hard, it will give you better, cleaner sound.

Is this a universal truth or should it contain some modifiers and additional information?

 

[fmw]

My answer to the original question is no, I wouldn't use the external amplifier personally. My home theater listening room is not huge (20X24) and my speakers are of average sensitivity so an external amplifier wouldn't have any noticeable affect on my system's performance. 100 wpc measured any way you like would be overkill in my situation. Using the external amplifier would simply be one more thing to turn on and off manually while operating the system and one more thing to draw kilowatts from our amateur electric company.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When are they ever driven all at the same instant some of the time? Never heard of such source material with that requirement

Okay, I'm too lazy to read that "All Channels Driven" thread, so tell me.
How many channels are driven at the same time?
Two? Three?

Straighten me out, will you?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My answer to the original question is no, I wouldn't use the external amplifier personally. My home theater listening room is not huge (20X24) and my speakers are of average sensitivity so an external amplifier wouldn't have any noticeable affect on my system's performance. 100 wpc measured any way you like would be overkill in my situation. Using the external amplifier would simply be one more thing to turn on and off manually while operating the system and one more thing to draw kilowatts from our amateur electric company.

Assuming you have a 10' ceiling, that's 4,800 cubic feet, which is a nice size room. But yeah, of course, none of us need an external amp. A 100 wpc (2 ch driven) receiver is all we ever need, especially since most of use keep the volume below 85 dBA and no more than 90 dBC?

Any external amp to me is considered overkill. 200 wpc (all ch driven) is overkill. But a lot of people do it because they want overkill, not need it.
So I agree that we don't NEED an external amp since it most likely won't improve the sound to any significant degree.

I do it because it's cool.

 

[fmw]

I don't have a problem with that. I just take convenience and lower operating cost before coolness. We should have what we like.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Okay, I'm too lazy to read that "All Channels Driven" thread, so tell me.
How many channels are driven at the same time?
Two? Three?

Straighten me out, will you?

Hard to say but the probability is very high that it is not more than 2 that will ever go to full power at the same instant. Don't know of any soundtrack that has all channels at full power at the same short instant in time.

Remember, your filter caps are always recharging for the next dynamic peaks. Also remember, music and even the sound effects are very short in peaks back to back so the caps can recharge or should be able to.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Is this a universal truth or should it contain some modifiers and additional information?

Amplifiers are not animals They are designed for full power continuous operation on 2 ch, rarely happens, and partial power on the other channels.
No need to be gentile on them
The animal rights group will not be after you!!!

 

[mtrycrafts]

...But a lot of people do it because they want overkill, ...:

And, a lot of people buy extra horsepower too, an overkill. So, it has been implanted in us by the market.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I read the review and yes it did get good marks. I still doubt that it will outperform the Adcom. .

But we were not talking outperforming. You indicated the Yam's 100 watts of power is not the same as the 100watts in the Adcom, somehow it is different, doesn't measure up to the claimed power level by Yamaha.

100 Yamaha watts does not necessarily equal 100 Adcom watts.

In fact, it does measure up very nicely and goes beyond it; it also stood up to the 4 ohm continuous power testing very well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hard to say but the probability is very high that it is not more than 2 that will ever go to full power at the same instant. Don't know of any soundtrack that has all channels at full power at the same short instant in time.

Remember, your filter caps are always recharging for the next dynamic peaks. Also remember, music and even the sound effects are very short in peaks back to back so the caps can recharge or should be able to.

So the Onkyo 875, which is rated for 140 wpc, but measures 201 watts (1 ch driven) is pretty good, huh?
I didn't see a 2-ch driven, but the 5-ch driven was 141 watts.

 

[audioman00]

amp

the main amp wil sound more full and smooth, more like the wattage it is rated at, the yamaha on it's finest day could never produce 100 watts X anything 20hz to 20kzh.... the real two cahnnel amp you have will... Believe me on this, especially for music the secondary 100x2 amp will sing, the yamaha 100x5 or whatever will choke the speaks to death at high volume levels, possibly even clip and toast the coils in your drivers. Unless you are talking about a huge 4k + receiver, then an external power amp is your best bet for the main speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I mean, come on, what's to distinguish us from non-audioholics?

More knowledge

 

[mtrycrafts]

So the Onkyo 875, which is rated for 140 wpc, but measures 201 watts (1 ch driven) is pretty good, huh?
I didn't see a 2-ch driven, but the 5-ch driven was 141 watts.

Yes, of course that is good with speakers that are not very sensitive or when you are testing the limits of the amp, speakers, your nerves and the spouse's love for you

 

[mtrycrafts]

... the yamaha on it's finest day could never produce 100 watts X anything 20hz to 20kzh.... [/QYOTE]

How do you know this? Did you test it on the bench? AH did and they most certainly disagree with your speculations. In fact, it will do a good 130 watts into 8 ohms and 200 into 4 ohms. But, your independent testbench data is welcomed.

... the real two cahnnel amp you have will... Believe me on this, especially for music the secondary 100x2 amp will sing, the yamaha 100x5 or whatever will choke the speaks to death at high volume levels, possibly even clip and toast the coils in your drivers. Unless you are talking about a huge 4k + receiver, then an external power amp is your best bet for the main speakers.

Sheer speculation.

 

[j_garcia]

And what will that Adcom do on the bench? If you don't know, then there isn't a way to adequately compare them and say that they are equivalent or not.

The simple fact is, he already has the amp and I can't give a good reason why one would NOT want to use it in that instance, unless he was driving some tiny little satellite speakers. The external amp WILL decrease the total draw on the receiver and it also means the mains are using a completely separate power supply. Though it may be mainly noticeable during very loud listening, there WILL be a noticeable difference using the external amp. Please provide evidence to the contrary if possible.

 

[fmw]

The simple fact is, he already has the amp and I can't give a good reason why one would NOT want to use it in that instance, unless he was driving some tiny little satellite speakers. .

Perhaps not but I gave him two good reasons.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Unless you are talking about a huge 4k + receiver, then an external power amp is your best bet for the main speakers.

What about the $1,155 Onkyo 875 (which was measured by 3rd party independently to produce 141 watts/ch with 5 ch driven)?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

More knowledge

Yeah, audioholics/audiophiles have more knowledge, but especially a lot more passion and interest for audio gears.

 

[j_garcia]

Perhaps not but I gave him two good reasons.

I don't consider having to turn on the amp a good reason. When I turn my receiver on, my amps come on also - one button press, no walking over to anything. The electricity one is valid, but paying a few bucks (literally) more a month in electricity is something I can live with if it means I can enjoy my music and movies more as well - others may see it differently.

 

[fmw]

I don't consider having to turn on the amp a good reason. When I turn my receiver on, my amps come on also - one button press, no walking over to anything. The electricity one is valid, but paying a few bucks (literally) more a month in electricity is something I can live with if it means I can enjoy my music and movies more as well - others may see it differently.

I didn't realize his amp had a 12v trigger. I'm surprised it does. I see it differently than you do because, in my system, a separate amp wouldn't improve anything over a receiver so it would be unnecessary baggage. Your system could have different requirements than mine. The point is that having a separate amp is not universally beneficial. It is a benefit in a minority of cases.