Revelation

[furrycute]

And, when you talk out in low volume to yourself, bouncing off ideas, what is that? Maybe I need to see a shrink

But how right you are from this relative position

Nay, as long as you confine those conversations to your mind, I don't think anyone is going to drag you to see a shrink.

 

[The Dukester]

Hardly testable events. But, it can exist in the mind, I suppose, if one so chooses.

Mmmmm...testable by whom? I have tested Christ before (better be careful how you test God!!!) in a way that he said to "test me" and he has proven himself faithful to me. There are many things that are not testable, however. Christianity is all about faith. There are some things we (Christians and well, non-believers also, for that matter) just don't have the answer to. It doesn't take much, or at least shouldn't take much to believe facts. Of course, there are always the $1000 cable disciples. I put my faith in Jesus and he has proven himself over and over. I can only tell you about it.

There are things I could tell you about that I have no doubt was a God thing that non-believers would chalk up to coincidence or at a minimum could not come up with a reasonable explanation for. I know it's from God because I have a relationship with him and can see him at work. I've seen physical healing (no, not by Bennie Hinn), financial needs met when there was absolutely no way it should happen, peace in times of crisis, lives completely changed and on and on that I am sure was the direct result of God. It may not be like putting a piece of litmus paper in a jar of acid to you, but proof none the less.

Will non-Christians accept or believe all these things? No, for the most part, but we can offer them to you for you to examine in hopes that the Holy Spirit will bear witness of their truth to you. In fact the Bible plainly states that to the world His ways are foolishness...as even pointed out here.

It's not a Christian's job to save anyone; that's God's job. What is my job is to tell people about him and offer all that will listen a chance to accept him as their savior.

 

[The Dukester]

Speaking of proof, I just did a spell check on my last post. It said there was no such word in the English language as "proven". I have faith that there is such a word.

 

[mouettus]

There are things I could tell you about that I have no doubt was a God thing that non-believers would chalk up to coincidence or at a minimum could not come up with a reasonable explanation for. I know it's from God because I have a relationship with him and can see him at work. I've seen physical healing (no, not by Bennie Hinn), financial needs met when there was absolutely no way it should happen, peace in times of crisis, lives completely changed and on and on that I am sure was the direct result of God. It may not be like putting a piece of litmus paper in a jar of acid to you, but proof none the less.

Will non-Christians accept or believe all these things?

What about believing in human nature? All those things can be achieved by men! No need for divine intervention.

 

[Johnd]

Oh Johnd, don't be so quick to judge me as a close minded "scientist." Although I do admit my background is in the sciences more than anything else.

All my life I have pondered about the meaning of existence, and tried, to gain a glimpse of understanding of the nature of existence. I guess like all good scientists, I have a deep reverence for the order of things in nature. I guess I can call myself religious. But my notion of being "religious" goes far beyond what is preached in the Christian bible.

Oh, don't be so quick to judge me furrycute. Or misrepresent what I wrote. That quip was more of a general statement to all naysayers. Also, you take it out of context when you limit my description with close minded...I parenthetically used the phrase "already made up their mind."

You apparently hadn't noticed, but I never used the term religion in this thread. I used the words God and faith and spirituality. Religion is a whole different thing. It is way too easy to argue against an illogical argument based upon an unfounded premise.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I don't have "religion", I have a relationship with my Saviour.

How do you have a relationship with someone who has been dead for over 2000 years? That is similar to having a relationship with a purely fictitious character (eg Harry Potter.)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Not to offend anyone.

But in psychiatry, when a person thinks he hears voices that are not actually there, that's called a psychotic episode.

Thank you, that is exacly what I was going to say. Talking into thin air and imagining that there is a "god" listening is one thing. When you hear him answer, you have real issues.

 

[masak_aer]

Thank you, that is exacly what I was going to say. Talking into thin air and imagining that there is a "god" listening is one thing. When you hear him answer, you have real issues.

A 5-year-old boy threw a ball up in the air and laughed so hard again and again. His friend being curious to all that's happening, came over and asked what he was doing. The boy said,"I am playing ball with God. he is a bad ball player. He can never throw the ball straight back at me."...

 

[The Dukester]

How do you have a relationship with someone who has been dead for over 2000 years? That is similar to having a relationship with a purely fictitious character (eg Harry Potter.)

Joe, I believe that Jesus is raised from the dead and is sitting at the right hand of God the Father right now. He is not dead. This is required for one to accept Jesus as thier saviour. I don't talk to a fictitous character but one who is alive. Again, this requires faith and we even have to depend on God to give us this faith unto repentance and believing. I know He is real as he has proven himself over and over to me. I don't want a God that is so small that I can put him or her in a box. I believe in a big God that nothing is impossible for.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Joe, I believe that Jesus is raised from the dead and is sitting at the right hand of God the Father right now. He is not dead.

I was afraid you thought something ridiculous like that. Man, you really have it bad.

 

[Matt34]

Let's keep it civil guys. While you might not understand or agree with one's belief, it is in fact their own.

 

[masak_aer]

I don't think it's right to bash and laugh at other's belief. Respect please. The ones who believes in the existence of God didn't laugh at you JoeS but present arguments for what they believe in. If you start with the unwelcomed comment, you really need a lesson of how to respect others.

 

[aberkowitz]

I don't think it's right to bash and laugh at other's belief. Respect please. The ones who believes in the existence of God didn't laugh at you JoeS but present arguments for what they believe in. If you start with the unwelcomed comment, you really need a lesson of how to respect others.

Hundreds of years of wars have been started over this exact topic- my belief is better than your belief and if you don't change you must die. Being Jewish myself, I have been exposed to many of these instances in my own religion and it's made me appreciate the struggles that others have gone through- and that includes those who don't believe in anything but were forced to take on religion at the threat of death.

I've always thought that it doesn't matter what you believe in, but as long as those beliefs help you get through the day then more power to you.

 

[masak_aer]

Hundreds of years of wars have been started over this exact topic- my belief is better than your belief and if you don't change you must die. Being Jewish myself, I have been exposed to many of these instances in my own religion and it's made me appreciate the struggles that others have gone through- and that includes those who don't believe in anything but were forced to take on religion at the threat of death.

I've always thought that it doesn't matter what you believe in, but as long as those beliefs help you get through the day then more power to you.

I believe everybody should treat each other with respect, with or without religion. Like what i said to furrycute, whatever makes u happy and peaceful, go on with it. The world is a much better place if everybody treats each other with respect.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I don't think it's right to bash and laugh at other's belief. Respect please. The ones who believes in the existence of God didn't laugh at you JoeS but present arguments for what they believe in. If you start with the unwelcomed comment, you really need a lesson of how to respect others.

We atheists have had to endure centuries of persecution and abuse, frequently including torture and murder, by Christians and other religious fanatics. It is a bit late to ask for tolerance towards them from us, don't you think?

 

[masak_aer]

We atheists have had to endure centuries of persecution and abuse, frequently including torture and murder, by Christians and other religious fanatics. It is a bit late to ask for tolerance towards them from us, don't you think?

So now you are taking vengeance upon us here? How old are you, centuries old? Your reasoning behind your hatred is completely saddening. That's what makes the evil circle of revenge go round. We don't ask for tolerance like you have to believe what we believe in. And for your record, Christians didn't only torture atheist, but also tortured our fellow Christians as well. Apparently respect is not a value in your belief but revenge and hatred is? Thanks for letting us know that.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Apparently respect is not a value in your belief but revenge and hatred is? Thanks for letting us know that.

If by revenge you mean "an eye for an eye" then no, none of we heathens want to sink to the level of religious maniacs by committing such atrocities. Saying "its your belief and I am OK with that", however, is more than you can reasonably expect from us.

 

[stratman]

Joe why are you so angry? I have yet to see any Christian in this forum trying "convert" you in anyway, it has been a civil discussion between people of different views, Abe is Jewish, I'm a Christian and others are atheist, hey that's ok, not all have been called and not all believe. What I don't understand is you say you have no faith, I challenge you on that, you do have faith, lot's from what I can read except your god is science, I too have faith, lots of it, except my God is the God of the bible, you have a very sour misunderstanding of what Christianity is about, you claim that "your" people (heathens, pagans, wiccans, etc) were persecuted by Christians, I don't recall the last time I saw a bonfire, whatever happened eons ago has no bearing on you or Christians today, the way I look at it is simple: If you're right, when I die I will drift into nothingness, if I'm right (which I believe I am) when you die the consequences will be ghastly, but you have faith in science so you don't need to worry about existence after death, so why are you so angry?

 

[masak_aer]

I believe he mentioned it before Caveman. His ancestors were tortured. persecuted and abused by the ancient Christians and other religious groups. So he carries their hatred to this day and find it hard to move on.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Joe why are you so angry?

I can't list all of my reasons for being angry, because there are too many. Here are a few, though.
I am angry because: There are still holy wars going on, and this country insists on getting involved in them. In spite of the constitutional separation of church and state, there are still numerous laws with a religious basis. The organizations intended to do real good (eg charities, AA) all have a religious bias. Wherever I drive in this city, there are gigantic churches (most of the "hellfire and brimstone" variety, some larger than football stadiums.) An athiest cannot get elected president, and every president uses the false authority of the bible to bolster his own pronouncements. Many christians simply accept all the disasterous events in today's world as part of "the end of days", instead of trying to change them. Science teaching is being undermined by religious BS like "intelligent design".
I could go on, but you get the idea.