Revelation

[The Dukester]

Just as surely as a man will not talk to a microbe, man can be pretty sure that god will not talk to him.

I will agree with the micorbe, but sorry, not on God. I talk with Him every day. He speaks to me, also. That is what makes Christianity so different from "religion". It's about relationship.

 

[Johnd]

I will agree with the micorbe, but sorry, not on God. I talk with Him every day. He speaks to me, also. That is what makes Christianity so different from "religion". It's about relationship.

A plainly stated truth.

 

[The Dukester]

FWIW, I think everyone here is expressing thier views in a civil manner. Let's continue this way! We all have the right to express our views without bashing anyone over theirs.

 

[furrycute]

Not to offend anyone.

But in psychiatry, when a person thinks he hears voices that are not actually there, that's called a psychotic episode.

So, if a person thinks he hears voices from other people (not actually there), we call him a psychotic. But if a person thinks he hears the voice of God, we call him a person of faith.

Again, my intention is not to offend anyone. I am just pointing out the obvious incongruities between science and faith. I talk to myself in my mind all the time, mostly when I think about stuff, but never out aloud.

 

[furrycute]

The universe is a vast place. While we humans might think that we have come a long way since our origins as singled cell organisms in all these billions of years, compared to the immensity of what is out there, we as a species have just started on this journey..

There are bound to be beings millions if not billions of years older than us. They were old when the universe was young. Giants, who freely walked amongst the stars and the galaxies. Stars were their building blocks. Galaxies were their playgrounds. Timeless, ageless. Perhaps one day, far into the distant future, humanity's descendants will be lucky enough to join their ranks.

I like science fiction.

 

[stratman]

It's not voices as you would think, it's very hard to explain unless you are a Christian, it's also not a feeling. Nonetheless it defies explanation and it's very palpable to a person of faith, very personal. Same as answered prayer.

 

[Johnd]

Not to offend anyone.

But in psychiatry, when a person thinks he hears voices that are not actually there, that's called a psychotic episode.

So, if a person thinks he hears voices from other people (not actually there), we call him a psychotic. But if a person thinks he hears the voice of God, we call him a person of faith.

Again, my intention is not to offend anyone. I am just pointing out the obvious incongruities between science and faith. I talk to myself in my mind all the time, mostly when I think about stuff, but never out aloud.

And why are some so adamant about illustrating incongruencies in science and faith?

Not so long ago I started a casual conversation with a physicist about the incongruencies in Hawkings theory on leaking radiation in quantum mechanics. Then I remembered who I was talking to (and asking questions of), and remembered just how little I knew.

Point being furrycute, I would be far more interested in conversing with you (or any of the other naysayers so quick at refutation) on the subject matter if you had been a monk for the past two decades, and then BAM! just had a revelation, and had turned into an atheistic missionary (as one or two here obviously are).

It is so easy to refute a thing when one already has a closed mind (and has made up their mind)...there is no meaningful discourse to be had then, is there?

 

[mouettus]

very personal

THOSE are the magic words thank you. I can't make somebody talk back to me just be imagining a conversation or something. You can. Personal thing.

I also have to add that I don't hate religion because of a god, a presence. It's bescause of all those stories about jesus and moises and sacrifices and crucifiction etc. I just don't believe at that bible story. But the thing that tops them all is people who go kamikaze bombing at others in the name of god. ouch.

What I like about religion is that it brings good valors. Serenity, forgiveness, to be generous, kind, etc. Wish there was another way to bring those up to society.

 

[masak_aer]

I am ridiculously limited in my knowledge about the universe. There are many things incomprehensible by my tiny brain. That's when I turn to my faith for answers to those i can't comprehend. Science as i mentioned earlier can only hold truth only to a certain extend. My faith however, stretches long ahead of the things i know.

 

[masak_aer]

THOSE are the magic words thank you. I can't make somebody talk back to me just be imagining a conversation or something. You can. Personal thing.

I also have to add that I don't hate religion because of a god, a presence. It's bescause of all those stories about jesus and moises and sacrifices and crucifiction etc. I just don't believe at that bible story. But the thing that tops them all is people who go kamikaze bombing at others in the name of god. ouch.

What I like about religion is that it brings good valors. Serenity, forgiveness, to be generous, kind, etc. Wish there was another way to bring those up to society.

Believing in God doesn't necessarily mean you have to believe in Jesus or bible. The argument about kamikaze thingy doesn't go with me either. Frankly speaking, i know none other than religion that brings good valors. Confucius was once a wise man with unworldly wisdom but even then he was considered God like. That means, IMHO, our spiritual quest begins with the search of the Higher being, e.g.: God.

 

[furrycute]

Oh Johnd, don't be so quick to judge me as a close minded "scientist." Although I do admit my background is in the sciences more than anything else.

All my life I have pondered about the meaning of existence, and tried, to gain a glimpse of understanding of the nature of existence. I guess like all good scientists, I have a deep reverence for the order of things in nature. I guess I can call myself religious. But my notion of being "religious" goes far beyond what is preached in the Christian bible.

Point being furrycute, I would be far more interested in conversing with you (or any of the other naysayers so quick at refutation) on the subject matter if you had been a monk for the past two decades, and then BAM! just had a revelation, and had turned into an atheistic missionary (as one or two here obviously are).

 

[furrycute]

Confucius was once a wise man with unworldly wisdom but even then he was considered God like.

Confucianism is more of a school of philosophical thought than a "religion." Confucius is revered, not as a god, but as the founder of his school of thought.

I guess you can say people revere Buddha as a god in Buddhism. But when you look through his teachings, you find (at least I find) that attaining buddha-hood is more about attaining enlightenment than anything else. So people revere Buddha not so much for his status as a god, people revere Buddha for his having attained enlightenment.

 

[masak_aer]

My only advise for you furrycute is: don't be blinded by your extreme scientific achievements as they may be relatively short lived.

Your notion of being religious may have go so far beyond what others have been able to understand. Whatever makes you civil and can give you "peace and welfare" is all we need in this world.


JMHO.

 

[masak_aer]

Confucianism is more of a school of philosophical thought than a "religion." Confucius is revered, not as a god, but as the founder of his school of thought.

I guess you can say people revere Buddha as a god in Buddhism. But when you look through his teachings, you find (at least I find) that attaining buddha-hood is more about attaining enlightenment than anything else. So people revere Buddha not so much for his status as a god, people revere Buddha for his having attained enlightenment.

He may not be revered as god but he is surely treated like one. Many temples across Asia are dedicated to him and even others have representation of him. He is prayed on and his pictures are put on the altar. If he is not revered as god, then i have no other words for what the common practices are. I personally see his teachings as philosophical as well, there's no difference between what you know and what i know in this aspect. I also have no argument on Budhism as that is what i believe it is.

 

[furrycute]

Thanks Masak-aer.

It's always fun to discuss these ideas. This is one of the fun parts of being human

My only advise for you furrycute is: don't be blinded by your extreme scientific achievements as they may be relatively short lived.

Your notion of being religious may have go so far beyond what others have been able to understand. Whatever makes you civil and can give you "peace and welfare" is all we need in this world.


JMHO.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Don't be too hard on him. He didn't follow any dogma.

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." - Einstein

Then I would call Nature and the Universe as his God As its vastness is awe inspiring.

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature." - Einstein

Or, for now, the event before and the starting the Big Bang as a God as the present knowledge is lacking for now.

 

[mtrycrafts]

He speaks to me, also. That is what makes Christianity so different from "religion". It's about relationship.

Hardly testable events. But, it can exist in the mind, I suppose, if one so chooses.

 

[mtrycrafts]

A plainly stated truth.

Whose truth?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I talk to myself in my mind all the time, mostly when I think about stuff, but never out aloud.

And, when you talk out in low volume to yourself, bouncing off ideas, what is that? Maybe I need to see a shrink

But how right you are from this relative position

 

[furrycute]

I guess in this respect, you can call Confucius a god.

Most Asian cultures practice ancestral worship. The tenets of ancestral worship is not so much about elevating one's ancestors to "god-hood" as it is to express reverence for those who came before us. I guess while most people are at it (in the temple praying), it's always convenient to tag along some prayers for more wealth and healthier lives.


In the broader context, I guess you can say that the practice of most religions, especially the Asian religions such as Buddhism, really have two, aspects. One appeals to the broader masses, where temples and statues are built, and prayers are granted (supposedly); the other is more concerned with the more scholarly pursuit of gaining a deeper understanding of the central tenets of a particular religion.

These two aspects of the practice of religion are not necessarily mutually exclusive. One is needed to support the other. Without the mass of followers, what are those monks going to live on. Without those scholarly monks, who will carry on these religious teachings.

He may not be revered as god but he is surely treated like one. Many temples across Asia are dedicated to him and even others have representation of him. He is prayed on and his pictures are put on the altar. If he is not revered as god, then i have no other words for what the common practices are. I personally see his teachings as philosophical as well, there's no difference between what you know and what i know in this aspect. I also have no argument on Budhism as that is what i believe it is.