Dynamic requirements

[avaserfi]

The EP2500 is a stolen design of a $600 QSC amp - that being said it is a monster here are some pics of mine: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38499

Great build quality and a great amp .

 

[annunaki]

There are no 5.1 options. You could do two EP2500's one for front one for rear and an EP 1500 in mono on the center. You could do it all for under $1000 pretty easily. You would have over 2200+ watts rms available for your system!!!! You may want to put in a larger dedicated circuit or two for the amplifiers.

Check out the thread EP2500 Internals by avaserfi in the "Amplifiers" section.

They are the best bang for the buck on the market. Even figuring off of the RMS 8 ohm stereo power they would come in at just $.39 a watt at the highest price I have seen them for online at $350.00 a pop. using the bridged 4 ohm power they would be just $.14 a watt

That is inexpensive power. Considering I have heard them going for as low as $265.00 with price matching options and such they are a steal. For reference a $265.00 selling price puts it at just $.11 a watt using the bridged output power.

 

[annunaki]

The EP2500 is a stolen design of a $600 QSC amp - that being said it is a monster here are some pics of mine: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38499

Great build quality and a great amp .

You're a bit quicker than me on the keys mate!

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Can these behringer models really compete with Parasound seperates ? I can't believe that such an inexpensive solution can be had that would be more than a match for the Parasound but without the price tag. Am I missing something here ?

--Regards,

 

[annunaki]

Under blind a/b tests I am unaware of anyone able to tell a difference.

 

[mike c]

Can these behringer models really compete with Parasound seperates ? I can't believe that such an inexpensive solution can be had that would be more than a match for the Parasound but without the price tag. Am I missing something here ?

--Regards,

another way to look at it is ...

I can't believe Parasound and other amp companies are charging so much just for looks and other small features.

 

[mtrycrafts]

another way to look at it is ...

I can't believe Parasound and other amp companies are charging so much just for looks and other small features.

Whatever the market will bear

 

[TLS Guy]

Whatever the market will bear

It's not that simple. Let's see if they sell enough to stay in business. If that amps is any good and holds up over time, it will be because a factory was set up do do large automated production runs.

It seems to me they will have to be using robotic surface component mount techniques. The set up costs will be enormous, even in the Far East where I assume these amps will be built. It remains to be seen whether they will get back the set up costs by selling enough units.

The only way you could build a traditional amp of that power would be with slave or cheap child labor.

We are just starting to really enter the age of automated circuit board manufacture. Lets see how it goes. I can tell you one thing service will be a nightmare.

 

[mike c]

It's not that simple. Let's see if they sell enough to stay in business. If that amps is any good and holds up over time, it will be because a factory was set up do do large automated production runs.

who? behringer? they seem to be expanding to me

It seems to me they will have to be using robotic surface component mount techniques. The set up costs will be enormous, even in the Far East where I assume these amps will be built. It remains to be seen whether they will get back the set up costs by selling enough units.

The only way you could build a traditional amp of that power would be with slave or cheap child labor.

they are in China (so do 80% of other manufacturers), but behringer uses slave or cheap child labor? do you have evidence of this? there was a vid link posted here a few months ago of the behringer factories, I did not see little kids

We are just starting to really enter the age of automated circuit board manufacture. Lets see how it goes. I can tell you one thing service will be a nightmare.

servicing boards? or behringer service in general?

on a side note:

you seem to have a lot of knowledge in speakers/amps and stuff, can you give us a background on what you do? are you an engineer? audio dealer? (me, i'm just an ordinary Joe. [Jose, if you want])

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

I never considered using pro amps before and I was under the assumption that quality sound was not a prerequisite for pro audio applications. I guess I was wrong.

But searching the forums, a number of members have commented that the A500 power amp gives high frequencies a fatiguing character and that the sound is not "full". Not just one member but a handful.

If I was going to do this, I would buy three A500's, one each per speaker. The rear speakers would be powered by the Onkyo 805. It seems like an awfully cheap solution that could beat high end seperate power amplifiers. Although there are those complaints I spoke about earlier.

Maybe some things are too good to be true ?

--Regards,

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

As a monoblock solution, how would the A500 compare to the Parasound 5250 power amp ? For the same price, I could buy 10 A500's and still have spare change.

--Regards,

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Just forgot, my speakers are 6 ohm nominal. So I wouldn't be able to bridge mono.

Damn.

--Regards,

 

[3db]

I never considered using pro amps before and I was under the assumption that quality sound was not a prerequisite for pro audio applications. I guess I was wrong.

But searching the forums, a number of members have commented that the A500 power amp gives high frequencies a fatiguing character and that the sound is not "full". Not just one member but a handful.

If I was going to do this, I would buy three A500's, one each per speaker. The rear speakers would be powered by the Onkyo 805. It seems like an awfully cheap solution that could beat high end seperate power amplifiers. Although there are those complaints I spoke about earlier.

Maybe some things are too good to be true ?

--Regards,

Try looking into Bryston as well. The only manufacturer I know of to have a 20 year warranty on their product.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

I won't be able to afford that, methinks. But I did have a look at the Emotiva components. Namely, the LPA-1 power amp. It's only $449 and it delivers 125 watts per channel into 8 ohms and the thing weighs more than 60 pounds. It also uses toroidal transformers.

Now I know that the Behringer 2500 costs about the same (or cheaper) and apparently delivers more than 3 times the rated power into an 8 ohm load. But the Emotiva also has excellent build quality and looks great. From the reviews on Audioholics, it was given a very, very good rating.

So many options. Would the 2500 really sound better than the Emotiva ? The Emotiva looks like an audiophile grade component with performance to match. The 2500 looks ugly, apparently has a very loud fan (as stock) and also, apparently, delivers a heck of a lot more power.

Would do you guys think ?

--Regards,

 

[TLS Guy]

It's not that simple. Let's see if they sell enough to stay in business. If that amps is any good and holds up over time, it will be because a factory was set up do do large automated production runs.

who? behringer? they seem to be expanding to me

It seems to me they will have to be using robotic surface component mount techniques. The set up costs will be enormous, even in the Far East where I assume these amps will be built. It remains to be seen whether they will get back the set up costs by selling enough units.

The only way you could build a traditional amp of that power would be with slave or cheap child labor.

they are in China (so do 80% of other manufacturers), but behringer uses slave or cheap child labor? do you have evidence of this? there was a vid link posted here a few months ago of the behringer factories, I did not see little kids

We are just starting to really enter the age of automated circuit board manufacture. Lets see how it goes. I can tell you one thing service will be a nightmare.

servicing boards? or behringer service in general?

on a side note:

you seem to have a lot of knowledge in speakers/amps and stuff, can you give us a background on what you do? are you an engineer? audio dealer? (me, i'm just an ordinary Joe. [Jose, if you want])

I did no say that Behringer used child or slave labor. I was just pointing out that there is a huge sea change taking place in electronic manufacture very quickly. There has been the assumption that Parasound are ripping customers off, and by inference other traditional manufacturers.

Now until recently the only part of the the process that was in any automated was producing the circuit boards less the the components. The components then have to be placed on the boards, by hand. The components such a resistors, capacitors , transistors etc, have leads which go through the board to be soldered on the other side. Now there is a huge change, the components have no leads coming out of them, they have flat surface contacts. These components are placed and fixed on the boards, by an automated robotic process.

Within the last year my huge Digi-Key component catalogs have rapidly moved from the traditional components to surface mount. I'm astonished how fast all this is occuring.

Now the point I was making is that these surface mount components are fine for the robot, but not for humans. I have been asked to look at a unit built like this, and this old geyser just gave up. Basically it will be serive by changing the board.

Now I don't know if Behringer are using this manufacturing technique or not, but I suspect they are, or I don't see how they could do it for the price.

The next point I was making, is that there is huge risk and need for huge front end capital. If you make an amp the traditional way then there are limited advantages of scale. However with automated building you have huge up front costs but a much lower unit cost. The risk is that there will be misjudgment and you will not sell enough units to defray the set up costs.

So obviously if you take this approach you have to expand, to sell lots of units, or your bankers will call the notes.

 

[WmAx]

I won't be able to afford that, methinks. But I did have a look at the Emotiva components. Namely, the LPA-1 power amp. It's only $449 and it delivers 125 watts per channel into 8 ohms and the thing weighs more than 60 pounds. It also uses toroidal transformers.

Now I know that the Behringer 2500 costs about the same (or cheaper) and apparently delivers more than 3 times the rated power into an 8 ohm load. But the Emotiva also has excellent build quality and looks great. From the reviews on Audioholics, it was given a very, very good rating.

So many options. Would the 2500 really sound better than the Emotiva ? The Emotiva looks like an audiophile grade component with performance to match. The 2500 looks ugly, apparently has a very loud fan (as stock) and also, apparently, delivers a heck of a lot more power.

Would do you guys think ?

--Regards,

My EP2500 has more impressive build quality than any of my other amps that I own or have owned, and that includes my Adcom 555 and McIntosh MC754 amplifiers. The fan is easy to change - four screws hold it on. The quiet Panaflo model costs a whopping $8 from Digi-Key.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

As a monoblock solution, how would the A500 compare to the Parasound 5250 power amp ? For the same price, I could buy 10 A500's and still have spare change.

--Regards,

The EP2500 amplifiers are more flexibile -- and a better value -- as compared to the A500. Per channel(assuming you use A500s as monoblocks and Ep2500 as 2 channel), the value is better, and the EP2500 can operate into virtually any impedance you will find on a speaker system. The EP2500 can also produce much more power. Up to 2000 watts RMS, at very low THD, into 4 ohms bridged mono.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

Now I don't know if Behringer are using this manufacturing technique or not, but I suspect they are, or I don't see how they could do it for the price.

The EP2500 amplifier mentioned here uses no surface mount components of which I can remember. In fact, it goes beyond the expected, and used mil-spec PCBs with a redundant second layer trace, with all insertion mount components featuring redundant soldered points to each of the redundant traces.

How they can produce an amplifier with the high quality parts used, and high quality construction, and superb meaurements, at this price, is beyond me. As a DIYer, it would probably be impossible to buy the sum raw parts to build an EP2500 in low quantity for less then the price of a pre-built EP2500.

-Chris

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

WmAx, if you had the available budget and had to choose between two amplifiers, one the Parasound 2250 250 watts per channel (2 ch) into 8 ohms or the Behringer 2500 which delivers more than 1.5 times the rated power, which one would you choose ?

Because if the power increase is there then surely the Behringer will sound better at very loud playback levels, or reference level playback where the Parasound presumably would start to clip. In theory of course.

Answer truthfully ?

--Regards,

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Oh well, scrap the Emotiva range of amps. They can't ship to South Africa.

Back to the drawing board. So it looks like it's the Behringer range of amps OR. . .the Parasound for power amplification.

--Regards,