Another savage shows his true colors.

[Tomorrow]

Perhaps. But this illustrates only the perp's fanaticism and misguided use of religion, not not 1+ billion Muslim's collective evil.

Right. In some Muslim states, oh, say Sudan, they're much more lenient. They actually don't kill teachers who allow a teddy bear to be named Muhammad by children. They only imprison them. According to the press, those were moderate Muslims, vehemently protesting and rioting in the streets, and that wanted the death sentence imposed on her.

Posters that have pointed out the horrors perpetrated by varying religious groups through history are correct. A LOT of people have been killed in the name of "God" (or gods). Our founding fathers knew these things and built safeguards into our Constitution to separate (any) church from state. We are fortunate to live here. It isn't a perfect country by any imaginings, but it's a dang sight better than most other places. I think the OP has every right to express his feelings of cultural indignation.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Again, we disagree. Disrespect is a far-reaching word.

Ah, so you are arguing semantics. Clearly, our definitions are different. To me, disrespect is something internal, something that I feel towards someone.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Our founding fathers knew these things and built safeguards into our Constitution to separate (any) church from state.

Exactly. That is why I abhor attempts by religious organizations in this country, such as the Moral Majority (who are neither), to obtain political power.

 

[Johnd]

Ah, so you are arguing semantics. Clearly, our definitions are different. To me, disrespect is something internal, something that I feel towards someone.

No, not semantics. Plain english. Disrespect is not simply a feeling (as you put it). Don't take my word for it...look it up. Just a little friendly advice to choose your words more deliberately, lest you continue to be misundertstood. Cheers.

 

[Johnd]

Right. In some Muslim states, oh, say Sudan, they're much more lenient. They actually don't kill teachers who allow a teddy bear to be named Muhammad by children. They only imprison them. According to the press, those were moderate Muslims, vehemently protesting and rioting in the streets, and that wanted the death sentence imposed on her.

Posters that have pointed out the horrors perpetrated by varying religious groups through history are correct. A LOT of people have been killed in the name of "God" (or gods). Our founding fathers knew these things and built safeguards into our Constitution to separate (any) church from state. We are fortunate to live here. It isn't a perfect country by any imaginings, but it's a dang sight better than most other places. I think the OP has every right to express his feelings of cultural indignation.

I usually find people touting the evils of religion to be those of little faith. And so it goes.

Heinous acts and barbarous crimes occur across every spectrum of life: cultural, social, familial, economic, religious, political, etc. Believe it or not, even those with no faith or religious affiliation have committed crimes. Why, I wonder, do I never hear the naysayers espouse their misdeeds?

My simple point is that the act of one does not demonstrate the character (or lack) of the entire class. To purport otherwise is a huge injustice.

 

[highfihoney]

Perception is 110% of reality these days.

But this backlash is to be expected, and for good reason. It still isn't fair to label an entire society or culture for the evil deeds of a few.

I agree about perception,this is the reason why i refuse to post my last name or make public where i work,many a good man has been taken down by unfounded accusations of racism,its sheik nowdays to call somebody a racist because they refuse to molly coddle words so not to offend ANYBODY.

I knew you were not calling me a racist but whenever that term is used in a post twords me i must retort,any sane man would.

Fair play has nothing to do with this,we as Americans are judged as a whole by the rest of the world but we are supposded to judge everybody else on a person to person basis

When you say "few" what numbers constite a few,when comparing the number of savage Muslims against the numbers of ALL Muslims the percentage may very well be a small percentage,a better comparison would be to compare the numbers of savages spreading violence,hatred & murder against the numbers of ANY other religious group,the percentage would be staggering.

Calling out the entire Muslim religon for the actions of the savage group is whats needed but we wont,instead we make excuses,all the while the savages grow in numbers & their hatred spreads like a virus,if we made the entire Muslim religon accountable for the actions of the "few" before long the good muslims would put their foot down & demand sane activity from ALL its members.

We should judge everybody else by the same methods they use to judge us,should we not ?

 

[highfihoney]

Heinous acts and barbarous crimes occur across every spectrum of life: cultural, social, familial, economic, religious, political, etc. Believe it or not, even those with no faith or religious affiliation have committed crimes. Why, I wonder, do I never hear the naysayers espouse their misdeeds?

My simple point is that the act of one does not demonstrate the character (or lack) of the entire class. To purport otherwise is a huge injustice.

Not true,people who stand idle while their countrymen commit savage acts are not innocent,they are enablers,we've segued everything in sight in this thread to justify.

The group known as Nazi's was brought into this thread by a proponent of Islam so its now fair game,there were Nazi's who did not murder jew's but they stood mute while their countrymen committed some of the most horrible act's in the history of man,there were also Nazi's who knew without a shadow of a doubt that their "faith" as it were was responsible for countless murders yet they stood idle.

Are the non murderous Nazi's any less responsible for the end result than the murderous group?

Slavery & Jim Crowe laws have also been segued in this thread so it too is now fair game,Not every white person owned,used or otherwise abused slaves,most slave owners treated their slaves brutally,this was a well known fact ,even to those who did not believe in slavery,are those who allowed slavery to exist in their own back yard any less responsible for the end result ?

We should not loose sight of this fact,both the north & the south were of the same group, which was American,if it weren't for the actions of a group within the group,to accept responsibility,to put their foot down & say enough is enough, we'd still have slavery in this country today.

Johnd, Please answer the 2 questions i posed directly to you.

 

[jinjuku]

In the early 20th century the KKK consisted of 4-5 million men as well. Would you use those people to describe the attitude of the entire US? Or how about all of Christianity?

We happened to make hate crime punishable by very stiff sentences. We as a society (as best as societies can do) ousted the KKK. We as society don't tolerate whatever nutso sects and squash them.

I don't know if it is the media in the U.S. but I don't see the Muslim society at large putting the kabosh on the extremist. I realize that it's not just Islam, that there is a huge culture divide and many shades. I can't help but wonder that even when the most modern of Muslims still insist on the whole head covering, can't be too far away from even harsher interpretations.

Islam came into being for a few reasons: One is the Arab culture seeing the Jews and Westerners with Judaism and Christianity, so Islam was a 'me too' response.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Heinous acts and barbarous crimes occur across every spectrum of life: cultural, social, familial, economic, religious, political, etc. Believe it or not, even those with no faith or religious affiliation have committed crimes. Why, I wonder, do I never hear the naysayers espouse their misdeeds?

When nonreligious people commit crimes, it is clear to everyone (even themselves) that they bear 100% of the responsibility. The crime in this thread, by contrast, was blamed on the perpetrator's beliefs. (This blame is not unwarranted, as violence, hatred, and abuse of women are part of the Muslim teachings.)

 

[billy p]

Although

When nonreligious people commit crimes, it is clear to everyone (even themselves) that they bear 100% of the responsibility. The crime in this thread, by contrast, was blamed on the perpetrator's beliefs. (This blame is not unwarranted, as violence, hatred, and abuse of women are part of the Muslim teachings.)

admitting to the crime and turning himself in, its still only ALLEGED as to the reason why? I'll wait to pass judgement untill all the contributing factors in this case come out.

 

[Johnd]

When nonreligious people commit crimes, it is clear to everyone (even themselves) that they bear 100% of the responsibility. The crime in this thread, by contrast, was blamed on the perpetrator's beliefs. (This blame is not unwarranted, as violence, hatred, and abuse of women are part of the Muslim teachings.)

Not be me, not by anyone I witnessed on this site, nor by anyone with an above room temperature IQ. And your use of the term "Muslim teachings" is more than obtuse, it is simply a catch-all. The Koran does not teach hatred. Your contempt for anything higher than man is plain. Why don't you get off your horse, and practice a little tolerance (of those things that ought to be tolerated, of course)? Next.