a link suggesting vinyl surplanting CD

[3db]

As I have mentioned previously, the solution to this issue is to put pressure on the recording industry to end the fricken "loudness wars", not to switch to an inferior, outdated format. .

Agreed. but I never pushed for vinyl to replace the CD. Where did you get that idea.

Accuracy (reproducing exactly what is on the recording) is precisely what I want from a stereo, and is what all CD players do flawlessly. Creativity belongs on the recording end of the chain, not the playback end.

What creativity?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

What creativity?

Anything other than "very analytical, very correct, and very precise" is modifying the signal, this is what I mean by creativity. "Euphonic" distortion (preferred by some audiophiles) and the equalization/compression required by the vinyl format are examples. All such decisions belong to the recording artists, not the listener.

 

[Swerd]

This whole thread I started is about how an article is incorrectly blaiming vinyl for the demise of the CD. I never said in this thread that vinyl LP is better than digital storage.

Yes, your original post did point that out, and yes, you never directly claimed that vinyl is better than digital. I am sorry if I seemed to unload on you.

What did prompt my rant was not to correct what you said, but to inform the increasing number of younger readers who become curious when they hear comments about vinyl being better. Some one should set the record (pun not intended) straight.

I questioned your comment on about turntables coming out of adjustment which you FAILED to answer.

Although I have no information directly supporting my comment, phonograph makers back in the day all recommended frequent checking of the tone arm's tracking and counter weight. Because these were delicate mechanical devices, they were prone to coming out of adjustment due to vibration and handling. The consequences of misadjustment were greatly increased wear and degradation of the audio signals pressed into the vinyl. Every one wanted to avoid that if they could. It would be unwise to assume that these devices, no matter how well made, cannot become misaligned.

I also mentioned that I prefered some vinyl recordings to that of CD counterpart because the recording engineers mucked up the CD which is not a comment on the CD ,but rather, on the recording engineer.

I'd rather believe the these so-called recording engineers failed to choose the right master recording when they transfered it to CD. I have heard CDs of older recordings that still included the RIAA eqalization. Perhaps there wasn't a surviving master tape without the RIAA eq. but, I wonder if they even knew to look for it.

 

[3db]

Anything other than "very analytical, very correct, and very precise" is modifying the signal, this is what I mean by creativity. "Euphonic" distortion (preferred by some audiophiles) and the equalization/compression required by the vinyl format are examples. All such decisions belong to the recording artists, not the listener.

Let me ask you this? Do you like the sound of Klilpch? Nothing more accurate than a horn loaded speaker. As a listener, I have every right to choose how I want to hear things.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Let me ask you this? Do you like the sound of Klilpch? Nothing more accurate than a horn loaded speaker. As a listener, I have every right to choose how I want to hear things.

Klipsch speakers are not accurate. They severely over-emphasize the highs, resulting in painful brightness and fatigue.

 

[3db]

Yes, your original post did point that out, and yes, you never directly claimed that vinyl is better than digital. I am sorry if I seemed to unload on you.

What did prompt my rant was not to correct what you said, but to inform the increasing number of younger readers who become curious when they hear comments about vinyl being better. Some one should set the record (pun not intended) straight.

Thats up to the listener to decide. There is really nothing wrong if one prefers the sound of vinyl over CD despite all of its short comings. I keep an open mind and to me it really depends on how the recording engineer captured the sound. I'm not going to say that all CDs sound better than vinyl or the other way around. Its simply not that black and white to me.

Although I have no information directly supporting my comment, phonograph makers back in the day all recommended frequent checking of the tone arm's tracking and counter weight. Because these were delicate mechanical devices, they were prone to coming out of adjustment due to vibration and handling. The consequences of misadjustment were greatly increased wear and degradation of the audio signals pressed into the vinyl. Every one wanted to avoid that if they could. It would be unwise to assume that these devices, no matter how well made, cannot become misaligned.

I've read posts from hard core vinyl heads that once the tracking is properly set-up that it does not change unless like you say, the tt has been subjected to frequent moving or handling. .[/QUOTE]

I'd rather believe the these so-called recording engineers failed to choose the right master recording when they transfered it to CD. I have heard CDs of older recordings that still included the RIAA eqalization. Perhaps there wasn't a surviving master tape without the RIAA eq. but, I wonder if they even knew to look for it.

*nods* I suspect that is true. But there are other examples where it was designed into the recording. The White Stripes 2nd last album sounded like crap on CD because they purposely recorded to make it sound distant with very little treble info. I think they did it on purpose because all of the other recordings I own of them on CD does not sound like that. I'm curious to hear the vinyl version of this particular album but I suspect it will sound similar to the CD.

 

[fmw]

Klipsch speakers are not accurate. They severely over-emphasize the highs, resulting in painful brightness and fatigue.

Perhaps you are a good candidate for an equalizer. Also, I wonder if you've ever encountered a Klipschorn, the speaker than made the company famous. After 50 years, they still make them.

 

[3db]

Klipsch speakers are not accurate. They severely over-emphasize the highs, resulting in painful brightness and fatigue.

I don't like the sound of Klipsch either but they are accurate.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Perhaps you are a good candidate for an equalizer. Also, I wonder if you've ever encountered a Klipschorn, the speaker than made the company famous. After 50 years, they still make them.

I would never use an equalizer, or any speaker that required one. Strictly "pure direct" mode for me.
Klipschorns were not anywhere near as bright as today's Klipsch speakers.

 

[WmAx]

Klipsch speakers are not accurate. They severely over-emphasize the highs, resulting in painful brightness and fatigue.

They seem (even the reference line) to have horribly resonant cabinets, and extremely poor off axis dispersion.

-Chris

 

[fmw]

I would never use an equalizer, or any speaker that required one. Strictly "pure direct" mode for me.
Klipschorns were not anywhere near as bright as today's Klipsch speakers.

Why not? If you want to tailor the sound to your preference what better way? Tailoring the sound to your preference makes sense to me. Why not? Actually, Klipschorns aren't "bright" at all. They have an excellent frequency response for speakers.

 

[WmAx]

I would never use an equalizer, or any speaker that required one. Strictly "pure direct" mode for me.
Klipschorns were not anywhere near as bright as today's Klipsch speakers.

If a speaker is absolutely linear, then an EQ is a perfect tool. Not one that I would consider optional. It would allow custom tailor of the sound to one's preference. Often, when one purchases a new speaker, one thing they are doing is changing the 'hardwired' EQ when they go to another speaker, along with other variables that can't be corrected with the EQ. But it makes much more sense if one places as many variables under their control as possible to maximize their listening enjoyment.

-Chris

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Why not? If you want to tailor the sound to your preference what better way? Tailoring the sound to your preference makes sense to me. Why not? Actually, Klipschorns aren't "bright" at all. They have an excellent frequency response for speakers.

Why would I want to put extra, unneccessary circuitry in the signal path? I even bypass the tone contols to hear the signal on the CD with as few veils between it and my ears as possible. Also, it is not about hearing what I prefer, it is about hearing what the artist intended. Would you wear colored glasses to a museum because you think they make the paintings look "better"?
You are are right that the old Klipsches sounded decent. A friend of mine had Heresies and, unlike any of today's Klipsch speakers, I liked them.

 

[3db]

Why would I want to put extra, unneccessary circuitry in the signal path? I even bypass the tone contols to hear the signal on the CD with as few veils between it and my ears as possible. Also, it is not about hearing what I prefer, it is about hearing what the artist intended. Would you wear colored glasses to a museum because you think they make the paintings look "better"?
You are are right that the old Klipsches sounded decent. A friend of mine had Heresies and, unlike any of today's Klipsch speakers, I liked them.

who owns your system, you or the artist? I'll tell you from 1st hand expereicne that teh White Stripes 2nd last album sounded like sh?t just as they intended, recessed, hollow, lack of highs. When I play that CD, i can only listen to it after I eq'd else it would never get played. Maybe the artist didn't intend for that kinda sound and the recording engineer screwed up.. who knows?

 

[mtrycrafts]

1. Some speakers sound very analytical, very correct and very precise in their output but that does not mean that it appeals to everyone.

This may be, but research at the Canadian NRC shows:


• These tests determined that the characteristics that people preferred in speakers were:
- Low Distortion
- Flat Response and wide bandwidth
- Wide Dispersion

Maybe bias has distorted some of the anecdotal info?

 

[fmw]

Why would I want to put extra, unneccessary circuitry in the signal path? I even bypass the tone contols to hear the signal on the CD with as few veils between it and my ears as possible. Also, it is not about hearing what I prefer, it is about hearing what the artist intended. Would you wear colored glasses to a museum because you think they make the paintings look "better"?
You are are right that the old Klipsches sounded decent. A friend of mine had Heresies and, unlike any of today's Klipsch speakers, I liked them.

So instead you pick and choose components to engineer the sound you prefer? How does that differ from tone controls and how does it change the original intent of recording artist any differently. There is nothing wrong with tailoring the sound A. to your room acoustics and B. to your preference. Tone controls aren't veils. They are tools for changing the frequency response of the sound presentation - just like choosing one speaker over another or changing the reflectiveness of your room with treatments. No difference.

You should spend a day in a mixing and mastering sound studio. You would be horrified by the processing the sound engineers do to the recording artists' original sound.

You should listen to recorded music in whatever manner appeals to you. That's why they call it entertainment. You shouldn't buy speakers you don't like either. I have no problem there. I'm certainly not trying to sell you any brand. I don't own any Klipsch speakers either but not because I don't think they are good speakers. I think they are good.

 

[3db]

This may be, but research at the Canadian NRC shows:


• These tests determined that the characteristics that people preferred in speakers were:
- Low Distortion
- Flat Response and wide bandwidth
- Wide Dispersion

Maybe bias has distorted some of the anecdotal info?

your point sir?

 

[Thaedium]

I wish they still made records for my old victrola... Ella Fitzgerald sounds wonderful on it, even with all the distortion that comes through it.

To 3db: White Stripes sound like garbage no matter how their music is reproduced hehe. No offense to you tone def people who enjoy that crapola hehe, j/k! honest...


My opinion on the Vinyl comeback is simple, its never going to happen. Vinyl, even though it is facing a resurgence in sales, will never again capture mainstream audience. Teenagers nowadays are growing up with mp3 players, let alone CD's! or my favorite, is the MP3/Phone/Camera junk they make these days. Does it sound better? meh... I could care less if it did in all honestly, I'd love to see a 301 record player to take the spot of my DV-F07 Pioneer Elite, good god!

Its a niche market, appealing to those who just plain enjoy it and or want to be different. Mainstream is in the business of moving forward, not backward, and for the average consumer jumping back 40 years in technology is just plain silly.


Just a thought

 

[Joe Schmoe]

So instead you pick and choose components to engineer the sound you prefer?

Only speakers, the other components don't have much effect unless equalization is intentionally used (or unless they are tube components, which color the sound noticeably.)
I choose speakers that reproduce the signal as faithfully as possible (in fact, I would use my dead-neutral studio monitors if they had better dynamics and bass. My Bostons are almost as neutral, but add those characteristics.)

 

[3db]

Only speakers, the other components don't have much effect unless equalization is intentionally used (or unless they are tube components, which color the sound noticeably.)
I choose speakers that reproduce the signal as faithfully as possible (in fact, I would use my dead-neutral studio monitors if they had better dynamics and bass. My Bostons are almost as neutral, but add those characteristics.)

Its clear from your posts that you prefer an analytical sound and that's cool with me. Just don't be dumping on those who prefer a sound thats different from your own preference no matter how they achieve the sound be it thru vinyl, tube amplifiers, or what ever.