Help me set up this big room X)

[dotVIBE]

Hey guys, this is the room:



Now, the room is 6m deep by 14 meters wide, double volume ceiling. Unfortunately, the TV will be hanging above the fireplace. Luckily, I have a biggish budget to work with.

The house is under construction, so now is the time to lie the in wall cabling ducts. When it finishes, I''l probably be looking at an nice integra receiver hooked to a 7 channel amp to drive a 7.1 system.

Problems:
1. the left speaker. where? bookshelf? floorstanding?
2. It's a big room. maybe 2 subs?
3. Listening to music at the dinner table. the sound projection is all wrong.

Yeah, I know. Put the TV on the lounge/study wall and solve my problems in one. Unfortunately not an option at this stage. The lady of the house has decided that this is the wall where the expensive portrait will hang.

At this stage I'm looking at putting up a 60" plasma above the fireplace. The other option, that I don't really want to take, is to put a bulkhead above the portrait with a motorised drop down screen in it. But then where do I stash the projector?

Please guys, your input will be appreciated.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hey guys, this is the room:



Now, the room is 6m deep by 14 meters wide, double volume ceiling. Unfortunately, the TV will be hanging above the fireplace. Luckily, I have a biggish budget to work with.

The house is under construction, so now is the time to lie the in wall cabling ducts. When it finishes, I''l probably be looking at an nice integra receiver hooked to a 7 channel amp to drive a 7.1 system.

Problems:
1. the left speaker. where? bookshelf? floorstanding?
2. It's a big room. maybe 2 subs?
3. Listening to music at the dinner table. the sound projection is all wrong.

Yeah, I know. Put the TV on the lounge/study wall and solve my problems in one. Unfortunately not an option at this stage. The lady of the house has decided that this is the wall where the expensive portrait will hang.

At this stage I'm looking at putting up a 60" plasma above the fireplace. The other option, that I don't really want to take, is to put a bulkhead above the portrait with a motorised drop down screen in it. But then where do I stash the projector?

Please guys, your input will be appreciated.

Unfortunately I don't see an easy solution to your dilemma, or any. The easiest is solving the sound at the dining table. Either live with the setup you will have, or ceiling mount speakers and a zone 2 approach for the times of music and dining.

TV and that large one at that, above the fire place will be awkward to watch being so high. Movies will be tough on the neck for such long periods.

 

[dotVIBE]

Yeah, I'm beginning to seriously consider a bulkhead above the picture on the study wall with a motorised drop down plasma display. Or maybe one rising up from somewhere. This fireplace thing is starting to look less and less workable.

 

[snickelfritz]

my 2¢...

IMO, the dining room perspective should be considered as a priority in the overall layout of the A/V system.
(WAF should be considered within the context of proper system setup; not instead of it!)
Looking at the gaps and warts on the sides of the display (above the fireplace; ick!) and speakers etc... from the dining room will probably not be aesthetically pleasing, even to the *one who asked for it*, and might seem strangely positioned to guests seated at the dining table.
ie:
"hmm... why can't we see the TV from here?"
"hmm... the sound of that expensive A/V system is bass-heavy and muffled!"

Since you have a biggish budget ($15-$20k for speakers and amplifiers I assume), you might consider installing commercial-grade powered speakers that are designed to be built into a structure without sonic compromise.
ie: frame the study wall with sufficient depth to accommodate the equipment, speakers and (2)subwoofers; your lady will appreciate the understated appearance, and you get World-class sound.

Genelec is an example of a top-quality brand of commercial powered speakers. They are compact, very accurate, and can energize large spaces to THX reference levels cleanly.
You then only need the source components and A/V processor. (no external amplifiers are required)
The speaker amplifiers can be rack-mounted (for easier setup and better cooling) or integrated within the speaker cabinets.

I think I would place the 7th channel (surround back) near the dining area.
You can then set the system to "7 channel stereo" (your A/V processor should have an option to do this) for even coverage of the entire area, during parties or for background music.

The screen and center speaker could be mounted on a motorized elevator within the studio wall structure. (a drop-down hardwood cabinet containing the display and center channel speaker, from an overhead soffit/bulkhead, for example)

The main speakers and subs can be camouflaged behind fabric panels.
Broadband acoustic treatments can be integrated into the studio wall to kill early reflections.
ie: the wall framing is essentially finished with a layer of muslin hiding the OC705 panels, then covered with decorative fabric. (Acoustic treatments are definitely an important part of a "biggish A/V budget")
GL

 

[MDS]

I would agree with snickelfritz's suggesstions.

Above the fireplace is the worst possible place for a TV and actually the best possible place to hang an expensive portrait or framed art.

 

[dotVIBE]

What you are saying makes a lot of sense. As it is a 15ft ceiling, i'm thinking of a pop up motorized plasma, rather than a drop down. I'm thinking maybe do a box out partition 900mm high to match the upper bulkhead extending from the study loft's floor. That would also allow me to create a niche for the front speakers.

In this country we use brick & mortar construction as opposed to your framing, so that makes installation of acoustic panels a bit harder. If I install panels behind the speakers inside the partition, would that make a noticable difference?

And now it strikes me, those floorstanders' back ports need to be 300mm from the walls too. hmmm.

 

[snickelfritz]

My immediate notion would be that the partition between the study/lounge should be acoustically flexible and absorptive (wood frame and sheetrock on the lounge side, for example).
Brick or concrete will tend to exacerbate low frequency reflections and frustrate any efforts to absorb them.
ie: solid brick partition = unattenuated low frequency reflections = larger low frequency peaks and valleys in the room response = soggy, weak or thumpy bass.

Treating the areas behind the speakers (in the niches) will probably have minimal sonic impact, except to absorb panel resonances from poorly braced enclosures.
Speakers specifically designed to be built into cabinets or walls (the fore-mentioned Genelec, for example) will work ideally, since the speaker designer will assume this type of acoustical loading of the baffles for flat response, and the cabinets will be smaller and much more rigidly constructed to minimize panel resonances.
Most free-standing speaker designs really need to be located well away from boundaries to avoid coloration of the sound.

If this were my project, I think I'd design that entire partition to be a broadband black hole of sonic death.

cheers

BTW, I like what I see of your home design.

 

[dotVIBE]

thanks man, you should see the whole thing.

Okay, I'll have to look into the design of that wall more carefully. It has to be brick 'cause it carries a concrete slab over the study, for the the open loft above the study.

Right, you've sorted me on this one, I'll be back for the private sitting room.

 

[mtrycrafts]

GL

That was the first image in my mind I saw that would be a viable solution for him. You placed it on paper.

 

[dotVIBE]

Most free-standing speaker designs really need to be located well away from boundaries to avoid coloration of the sound.

If this were my project, I think I'd design that entire partition to be a broadband black hole of sonic death.

When you say black hole of sonic death, that is acoustic panelling and such, right?

 

[dotVIBE]

Right, "broadband black hole of sound death" sounds too good an oppurtunity to pass up. The architecht has been instructed to modify the design so that the concrete slab rest on 2 reinforced brick columns.

This enables me to construct lounge/study division wall out of skimmed drywall, containing any necessary acoustic materials. Now I just need to find someone to so the installation, or at least supply the material so that the carpenters can do the installation.

 

[jaxvon]

Right, "broadband black hole of sound death" sounds too good an oppurtunity to pass up. The architecht has been instructed to modify the design so that the concrete slab rest on 2 reinforced brick columns.

This enables me to construct lounge/study division wall out of skimmed drywall, containing any necessary acoustic materials. Now I just need to find someone to so the installation, or at least supply the material so that the carpenters can do the installation.

For sonic insulation, I would suggest high density (6-8lb/cu ft or higher) mineral wool fiber. The name brand is "Roxwool". It is very good at absorbing sound, and honestly fairly cheap. Just don't breathe the fibers!

 

[snickelfritz]

Another possible solution is to line the spaces between the studs with Owens Corning 703 or 705.
This stuff is basically just compressed fiberglass insulation.
It's much thinner(1-4 inches) and significantly stiffer than traditional fiberglass insulation.
(similar to duct liner but thicker and better suited to sound absorption)
It absorbs sound very effectively, and will work well down into the mid-bass if you leave an air gap behind it.

Here is a link that might be useful to your construction people:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

The guy that wrote this is very knowledgeable and forthcoming about acoustic treatment design.

 

[dotVIBE]

Right, thanks again. I have contacted Owens Corning South Africa, hopefully they can let me know where to find panels like that locally.

If I understand correctly, a simplified top down view of the wall behind the speakers would go something like this?



Another thing. I have been thinking about the rear speakers. How about changing them to bipoles and pulling them back to walls?

 

[dotVIBE]

Uhm, bump?

What do you guys think of the dipole idea?
And do I have the right idea on the drywall construction ?