Is it an Upgrade?

[annunaki]

Hello all. I am thinking of redoing my sub system. I have a couple different options I am thinking about but I am not sure if it is really an upgrade or not? I figured I would get some other opinions.

Currently I have an SVS PB-12 Ultra in Maple. It is a fantastic sub and sounds great. It is the best sub I have used in the home yet. My big issue is I have been bitten by the DIY bug and I would like to try and upgrade my sub system.

Option One: Dual 15" Dayton Audio Reference HF series subs in ported enclosures tuned to between 17hz-20hz. A Behringer EP2500 to power them and possibly a Behringer DCX2496 or comparable eq/processor.

I love the potential for the headroom here but I am slightly unsure about sound quality. I have no direct experience with the woofers in question. On paper everything appears great. This is the one I am leaning towards.

Option Two: Just adding a DCX2496 or comparable eq/processor to my current setup.

This will allow me to keep the sound quality but I will not have the headroom of dual 15" vented subs

Option Three: I have a JL Audio 12W7 collecting dust in the basement. I would just need an EP2500 and the DCX2496 or comparable eq/processor.

The issue here is that the JL does not model real well when tuned to the 17hz-20hz range. It seems better off in a sealed enclosure with the eq. If that route is taken I lose headroom and extreme LF response.

Any thoughts?

 

[avaserfi]

I like option one. I did some poking around the net looking for reviews on the Dayton HF line as I have yet to actually hear them and found nothing but happy customers.

Perhaps it is worth ordering one driver and building a single box to compare it to the Ultra if the Dayton is up to your standards perhaps then it would be time to build the second getting the added headroom as well as flattened response you are interested in.

 

[Tomorrow]

I like avaserfi's suggestion and I second it. You can use the Ultra with the one Dayton DIY for starters. Multiple subs are the way to go, IMHO, so I'd definitely forget option 2. It doesn't sound much like an 'upgrade'. Option 3....eck.

 

[annunaki]

With my budget the way it is, I would sell the Ultra to fund the project. SO in a way, it is an all or nothing deal. I wish I could find some people with more experience with the Dayton drivers.

 

[avaserfi]

I see the dilemma (thanks Johnd) you are in and have searched the net a bit. I have found some threads by searching for the part number I found for the HF on parts express (RSS390HF).

It seems as if some think the HF series aren't quiet 'tight' enough which makes me think they might not be as musical as the Ultra. I wish I could have found more, but it seems few people really go indepth about this sub most people just say they like it, but seem as if they are using it primarily for HT use.

Here was the best I could find. Hopefully someone with one on the forums replies though:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=272715&postcount=335

edit: I found one other post where a different user wishes for a tighter sound from these units, but this one goes in more depth. The other was on AVS.

 

[Johnd]

I see the delima...

As in de lima beans? Just needed a laugh av.

Yeah, door #1 sounds the best to me too. Dual subs should not leave you wanting.

 

[j_garcia]

Upgrading from an Ultra...yeah, must be rough. If you are after headroom, then duals would be the way to go, but you may still sacrifice some SQ for that headroom/output, though EQ would more that likely offset anything on that front.

 

[bass addict]

Sent ya a PM.

 

[no. 5]

It seems as if some think the HF series aren't quiet 'tight' enough which makes me think they might not be as musical as the Ultra.

I wounder if that may have something to do with the box that the driver was put in.

Annunaki; option one looks fun, and it would have the added benefit (for the rest of us) of providing more information about the HF series, and it would also allow you to try option three (as you will then have the DCX2496 and EP2500).

And I second Avaserfi's suggestion of two subs.

 

[avaserfi]

I wounder if that may have something to do with the box that the driver was put in.

Very good point. For some reason that didn't even cross my mind. Sadly, the poster didn't mention their design so in actuality we can't tell.

I think it would be worth the attempt, annunaki, if it isn't quiet as great as the Ultra it will be close and give you added headroom with a flatter response with proper placement.

 

[OttoMatic]

Hi there,

Start with Option 2. It's cheap (you can find a BFD1124 for $60 and REW is free). See how you find things after getting your frequency response flatter...

After that, build up whatever subs you need (i.e., Option #1).

Enjoy!

 

[dem beats]

I'm extremely interested in the dayton set up. I'm amazed at how low the fs is with only a 15" driver and the shorter xmax.

It says it can play down to 19 hz.... that's real real low.

when I look at other woofers designed to handle more TC sounds LMS and all of those, it just doesn't seam to add up to the price dayton is asking... too good to be true if you will.

low and loud with only 500watts and sound quality just doesn't seam possible.... at least not for that price.

I'm skeptical is all... I really woudl love it if it could acomplish this task though, quite impressive and I could put about 4 in my room and it would be less than my current proposed project.

 

[Warpdrv]

Did you ever look at the CSS SDX-15's....

As Im sure your well aware they model very similar if not better then the TC-2K.
And it has been stated to me that a single 15" TC-2K will best my PB12-Plus/2 and Plus put together both in SQ and headroom...

Had I known where TC-Sounds was going to be heading, I would have looked elsewhere, but I am looking forward to hearing my boys for the first time...

 

[dem beats]

Did you ever look at the CSS SDX-15's....

As Im sure your well aware they model very similar if not better then the TC-2K.
And it has been stated to me that a single 15" TC-2K will best my PB12-Plus/2 and Plus put together both in SQ and headroom...

Had I known where TC-Sounds was going to be heading, I would have looked elsewhere, but I am looking forward to hearing my boys for the first time...

you mean you wouldn't have gone with TC?

What is wild to me is those baskets and such from SDX looks oddly like the XXX from RE which has a 1 way of 54mm : craps self : . I wish they made a danged 18 for that SDX ........ I wonder if I could use soft parts from RE....

 

[Warpdrv]

you mean you wouldn't have gone with TC?

Im very happy with the quality of the TC's... they look beautiful, and are supposed to sound fantastic, but with the way they have changed business model direction, I could get the same driver SQ wise in the CSS SDX15....

TC doesn't want to deal with the consumer anymore, and the prices went way up... I have a set of 18" passives from them as well, but not sure If I will use them...

annuaki, I now see the CSS SDX is twice the price of the Dayton.......
and you are on a budget...

 

[annunaki]

Im very happy with the quality of the TC's... they look beautiful, and are supposed to sound fantastic, but with the way they have changed business model direction, I could get the same driver SQ wise in the CSS SDX15....

TC doesn't want to deal with the consumer anymore, and the prices went way up... I have a set of 18" passives from them as well, but not sure If I will use them...

annuaki, I now see the CSS SDX is twice the price of the Dayton.......
and you are on a budget...

I am wondering if TC Sounds OEM custmers were the reason they are not selling to the public any more. They build for A LOT of companies. With the great value that some of the subs were, I am thinking that their customers were losing business and threatened to look for another supplier.

 

[annunaki]

I'm extremely interested in the dayton set up. I'm amazed at how low the fs is with only a 15" driver and the shorter xmax.

It says it can play down to 19 hz.... that's real real low.

when I look at other woofers designed to handle more TC sounds LMS and all of those, it just doesn't seam to add up to the price dayton is asking... too good to be true if you will.

low and loud with only 500watts and sound quality just doesn't seam possible.... at least not for that price.

I think that the best results on this sub will be had in a ported enclosure as xmax is not as important in that instance. A sub woofer is most efficient at the tuning frequency which requires very little excursion. Tuning this sub between 17hz-20hz should alleviate any issues in that regard. Sealed enclosures will require a fair amount of excursion down low.

 

[Warpdrv]

I am wondering if TC Sounds OEM custmers were the reason they are not selling to the public any more. They build for A LOT of companies. With the great value that some of the subs were, I am thinking that their customers were losing business and threatened to look for another supplier.

I think what happened here, is that TC-Sounds kept selling to oem, and the oem would jack up the price and make the money in the end... so TC-Sounds felt like they had more potential to make more money, if they themselves are making the product, and selling it to retail outfits..... they offer a world class product, and feel they should be paid for it... their new site is http://www.audiopulse.com/, not sure what they are intending with their business model, but new news is coming soon....

 

[annunaki]

Warp,

It looks like they dropped the direct model and created a new brand they can sell through dealers to increase distribution. Now they are directly competing with some of the OEM customers rather than selling their stuff out the back door. Trust me, they are being paid for it either way.

 

[dem beats]

Warp,

It looks like they dropped the direct model and created a new brand they can sell through dealers to increase distribution. Now they are directly competing with some of the OEM customers rather than selling their stuff out the back door. Trust me, they are being paid for it either way.

I completely agree and thanks for the tip on the dayton.

What then makes a sub have a certain natural frequencey then? I thought excursion was part of that...
=/