Vertical vs Horizontal Center Speaker Designs

[admin]

The center channel’s job is a tough one. The consensus is that around 75 percent of a movie’s content is routed to the center channel loudspeaker. Yet, the design criteria for center channels traditionally require that it fit as stealthily as possible around that big-box television, or that huge sheet of projection screen. The sound can’t go through your glass TV screen and projection screens are usually not acoustically transparent. Ideally, the sound should come from behind the image, through the screen as it does in the movie theaters. But while there are new options with acoustically transparent projection screens, this article will focus on the more traditional problem of what compromises result from the different approaches to center channel design.

Discuss "Vertical vs Horizontal Center Speaker Designs" here. Read the article.

 

[placebo473]

Wow. I thought I was the only one concerned about this. First of all, not all vertically aligned MTM speakers sound good. And as much as the manufacturers claim (and most consumers seem not to care), good-sounding vertically-positioned MTMs don't sound as good horizontally positioned.

Hint.
Design a MTM speaker with a 'switch' to select it's desired positioning.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I run my Paradigm Studio CC-590 vertically just because I cant find a entertainment system that I like that my center will fit in. It looks like it should work fine this way; thanks for the review.

 

[j_garcia]

My MTMs work fine either way, by design Only 8" in width with 5 1/4 drivers and they have no problems going well below 80Hz. They aren't exactly what most would call cheap though...

 

[placebo473]

My MTMs work fine either way, by design...

Because you think so or becuse the manufacturer says so? They don't sound exactly the same (horizontal vs. vertical) that's for sure. By the way, are you refering to the GR Researchs?

 

[Warpdrv]

Thank you Chris for that amazing article explaining the Issues with the compromising situation of having to use a horizontal center channel speaker.

I have always wanted to have an article to point people towards the problems that are inherent with a horizontal MTM layout, or a horizontal center channel speaker.

It was a extremely well written, and informative... I would really like to see how my Paradigm CC-690 would perform under these same testing conditions...

I find my sound stage to be pretty good and acceptable to me despite my buggered layout.... Best I could do with this scenario...

 

[j_garcia]

Because you think so or becuse the manufacturer says so? They don't sound exactly the same (horizontal vs. vertical) that's for sure. By the way, are you refering to the GR Researchs?

Yes, the GRs. The A/V-2s are good to about 30 degrees off axis both horizontally and vertically. Rather good compared to the average MTM. With my 4 degree tilt for the center thanks to the Auralex MoPads, you are pretty much sitting on axis for the center too.

 

[Maxsunset]

Fantastic article Chris. I am glad there are at least a few of us out there that aren't blind to this fundamental center-channel flaw.

I would love to see this test procedure get brought up during all your standard speaker reviews. Maybe if manufactures saw that people actually do care about the quality of the sound of their center channels off-axis, they would start making a better effort to come up with better designs. Actually, I know of one speaker designer that designed around this problem... Richard Vandersteen... and I am amazed that Audioholics has not done any reviews of his speakers!

It seems to me, that for a site that emphasizes performance and real-world value, that you guys would be big fans of his designs! Getting back to the topic at hand, his center-channel designs are all co-axial, avoiding any kind of lobing and other distortions common in horizontal center channels. Look them up. And no, I am not affiliated, just a big fan. Oh, and ignore the terribly bad, and outdated website, I promise, it does not reflect on the quality of their speakers!

 

[ned]

Any disount for audioholics member?

 

[FernandoF]

What About a Horizontal Bookshelf ?

Congratulations on an excellent article, Chris !

I have just one comment, and let's please assume that I'm referring to mid- to large-sized, 2-way bookshelf speakers. Many of us who are also interested in reducing the problems associated with horizontal center channels, unfortunately can't place our speakers vertically due to space and/or rack constraints. However, a potential workaround would be to get a third "main" speaker, as proposed, and place it horizontally.

From what I've learned, my intuition is that such a horizontal TM configuration would be better than most MTM alternatives because of the absence of redundant horizontal drivers (except for the crossover region), as well as the fact that the 3 front speakers would be identical. Does this seem reasonable ?

Any comments on the above considerations would be highly appreciated !

Greetings,

Fernando

 

[chriscmore]

Congratulations on an excellent article, Chris !

I have just one comment, and let's please assume that I'm referring to mid- to large-sized, 2-way bookshelf speakers. Many of us who are also interested in reducing the problems associated with horizontal center channels, unfortunately can't place our speakers vertically due to space and/or rack constraints. However, a potential workaround would be to get a third "main" speaker, as proposed, and place it horizontally.

From what I've learned, my intuition is that such a horizontal TM configuration would be better than most MTM alternatives because of the absence of redundant horizontal drivers (except for the crossover region), as well as the fact that the 3 front speakers would be identical. Does this seem reasonable ?

Any comments on the above considerations would be highly appreciated !

Greetings,

Fernando

Hi Fernando -

You're spot on. You'd achieve the number one goal of having an identical model serve as your center channel. Rotating it 90 degrees would be for the most part fine because as you mention there aren't redundant drivers. And lastly, the only compromise is as you said within the crossover region. The steeper the crossovers, the narrower and less audible this compromise would be.

Another lastly (I rarely settle with just one), is that if your TM speaker's drivers are widely spaced they may not image as well as a rotated center. A few "main" speakers space out their drivers to make the soundstage taller, although I don't like this practice as it tends to undermine the driver integration and overall imaging. I love big soundstages, but not by gimmickry.

All in all, it should be nearly perfect and a fine compromise for the benefits you'd get.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[FernandoF]

Hi Chris,

Thank you so much for the detailed reply, that's exactly what I wanted to hear.

I've been wanting to have 3 identical front speakers for some time, but I was concerned with the 90º rotation. The drivers on my speakers are pretty close to each other, so I'm sure I'll be fine. Now the next step is to find a way of getting "half a pair" of bookshelf speakers...

Regards,

Fernando

 

[av noob]

I first found this article through a link in AVS in which the person who linked the article cited it for the proposition that when using an acoustically transparent screen, you are better off buying three identical front speakers and using one of those for the center channel, as opposed to using a specially designed cetner channel speaker.

My read of the article is simply that center channel speakers more often perform better when positioned vertically rather than horizontally.

So, since I am building a HT with an AT screen (and plan on hiding all the front speakers behind GoM), am I better off buying three front speakers or 2 fronts and a center? Stated differently, does a matched center channel speaker (positioned vertically) provide benefits over simply using a third front speaker?

A possible inference from the article would be that the designed center channel would not be better or even as good as a third front speaker posing as your center because of the design work-arounds used in configuring the speaker for its normal horizontal positioning. However, since I don't undertand all the technical descriptions in the article, I don't know if that is a correct inference.

 

[needaglock]

What about two identical high quality center channel speakers, one above and one below the TV?

 

[chriscmore]

av noob -

Acoustically speaking, you can do no better than three identical front speakers and an acoustically transparent screen. I prefer just having the center channel behind the screen, as the screen attenuation is only at the very top octave, but just having all identical fronts is the main goal.

The point of demonstrating horizontal versus vertical is just to illustrate the compromises made from being constrained horizontally with the common designs. I'm trying to raise awareness of this practice, so that people search out an identical center speaker - buying 3 instead of 2 where possible - or where that's not possible at least look for designs with vertical drivers, coaxial, planar, or even that the lowly bookshelf does a better job than the more expensive center. It really bothers me that you can't buy many speakers individually in this L/C/R world.

I think people are so accustomed to the look of the MTM that when a company just makes a TM (with the grill logo appropriate), people seem allergic to the asymmetry. It just doesn't look like a center even though it likely would perform better.

A possible inference from the article would be that the designed center channel would not be better or even as good as a third front speaker posing as your center because of the design work-arounds used in configuring the speaker for its normal horizontal positioning.

I think you nailed it there. Nothing but compromises come from designing a speaker only for "center" use, and some are much much worse than other, often simpler approaches.

Cheers,
Chris
Seymour AV

 

[chriscmore]

What about two identical high quality center channel speakers, one above and one below the TV?

If you already own the speakers, go ahead and try it out, but double center channels is usually a big mess. I wouldn't spend money on it, as the likelihood of getting real benefits are low.

The point to having a center channel is so that you don't have to have a phantom image from your L/R speakers. But by going top/bottom with the same signal, you are trying to create just that - a phantom image. It's perhaps a bit more centralized, but you would likely have a lot of phasing issues. You could delay or precisely mount them to arrive at your spot perfectly, but your other seats would still get wave interference.

It's possible that no center channel (using just L/R in a phantom center configuration) would sound better than using duplicate centers. Experiment and see, but don't spend non-returnable money on this approach.

Cheers,
Chris
Seymour AV

 

[needaglock]

If you already own the speakers, go ahead and try it out, but double center channels is usually a big mess. I wouldn't spend money on it, as the likelihood of getting real benefits are low.

The point to having a center channel is so that you don't have to have a phantom image from your L/R speakers. But by going top/bottom with the same signal, you are trying to create just that - a phantom image. It's perhaps a bit more centralized, but you would likely have a lot of phasing issues. You could delay or precisely mount them to arrive at your spot perfectly, but your other seats would still get wave interference.

It's possible that no center channel (using just L/R in a phantom center configuration) would sound better than using duplicate centers. Experiment and see, but don't spend non-returnable money on this approach.

Cheers,
Chris
Seymour AV

As an alternative, I may end up going with a projection system and an acoustically transparent screen. I have a pair of floor standing towers, powered at 250 watts each, as my front left and right. I can pick up a matching bookshelf speaker from the series, a 3 way powered at 150 watts, and place it directly behind the screen. Thoughts?

 

[NeverSeen]

I gather that it would be better to set my center up vertically than leave it horizontal. Because my center is designed as being horizonatal will it not benifit me to set it up on its side?

Polk CSi5 on top of a Hitachi.

 

[Warpdrv]

I first found this article through a link in AVS in which the person who linked the article cited it for the proposition that when using an acoustically transparent screen, you are better off buying three identical front speakers and using one of those for the center channel, as opposed to using a specially designed cetner channel speaker.

I believe that was me av noob... Deffinately a great article..... Can never be said enough about 3 Identical fronts.. I wish I could do that in my layout here.
Maybe in my next setup....

I'm trying to raise awareness of this practice, so that people search out an identical center speaker - buying 3 instead of 2 where possible - or where that's not possible at least look for designs with vertical drivers, coaxial, planar, or even that the lowly bookshelf does a better job than the more expensive center. It really bothers me that you can't buy many speakers individually in this L/C/R world.

Now if we can raise the Product Manufacturer awareness, I think we'll be on to something here... Very few companies will allow 3 mains to be purchased, much less do they even design products in this manner... Short sightedness in my eyes, but then again, the only ones who care are "The Few, The Proud, The Audioholics"

 

[no. 5]

Now if we can raise the Product Manufacturer awareness, I think we'll be on to something here... Very few companies will allow 3 mains to be purchased...

No kidding, I can only think of about five manufactures, off the top of my head, that sell speakers in singles. On the other hand, a person could buy three pairs of speakers to get 6.1 surround.