If Buckeye Nut can do it, so can I

[zhimbo]

Of coarse you think it's silly. It makes too much sense and contains way too many facts.

Actually, too few facts. It does contain some facts, but it is curiously selective about the facts it has, and curiously lacking in the necessary context to evaluate them.

1. Housing: No mention of the sub-prime lending crisis, the price we're paying for that record home ownership.

2. Stock Market: Another way of saying "record levels" is "back on track to Clinton-era trends". Which is nice and all, but nothing to brag about.


3. "If I was trading blood for oil I would've already seized Iraq's oil fields and let the rest of the country go to hell"

That's EXACTLY what happened: The only thing in Iraq that was treated properly on invasion were the highly-guarded oil fields, while the rest of the country did indeed "go to hell". Which is the primary reason Iraq is in such a state of anarchy, with not even the well-protected oil fields being of any use (oil fields surrounded by civil war - not very useful).

4. And saying that buying the NYT: (a paper which freely and uncritically published the administrations pre-war claims, Judith Miller ring a bell?), or supporting Democrats, is equivalent to arming terrorists? Beneath contempt.

Blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

It's silly. It's crap.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Why do so many people believe this about Clinton (and a few believe this about Obama, even more mysteriously).

Go here:

http://pollster.com/08presidentialprimary.php

I'm talking about winning the general election .......not primary.

 

[gmichael]

Actually, too few facts. It does contain some facts, but it is curiously selective about the facts it has, and curiously lacking in the necessary context to evaluate them.

1. Housing: No mention of the sub-prime lending crisis, the price we're paying for that record home ownership.

2. Stock Market: Another way of saying "record levels" is "back on track to Clinton-era trends". Which is nice and all, but nothing to brag about.


3. "If I was trading blood for oil I would've already seized Iraq's oil fields and let the rest of the country go to hell"

That's EXACTLY what happened: The only thing in Iraq that was treated properly on invasion were the highly-guarded oil fields, while the rest of the country did indeed "go to hell". Which is the primary reason Iraq is in such a state of anarchy, with not even the well-protected oil fields being of any use (oil fields surrounded by civil war - not very useful).

4. And saying that buying the NYT: (a paper which freely and uncritically published the administrations pre-war claims, Judith Miller ring a bell?), or supporting Democrats, is equivalent to arming terrorists? Beneath contempt.

Blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

It's silly. It's crap.

You just have a warped way of looking at the facts.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

As someone already pointed out, I didn't make that up. It's an email I received from a friend who's a policeman.
Thought it would fit in. Although I don't agree with all of it, it is correct in many ways.

LOL....

I added to your reputation anyways

 

[zhimbo]

I'm talking about winning the general election .......not primary.

So are those polls. Maybe you didn't scroll down far enough. I'm talking about head-to-head Dem vs. Repub general election choices.

It's the grid of results with red and blue line: click it to enlarge.

Clinton ties or beats all Republicans. Obama too, even a little better.

 

[zhimbo]

You just have a warped way of looking at the facts.

Are you saying I made up the sub-prime lending crisis? That I made up the figures for the stock market for Clinton's term? That I made up the post-invasion strategy for what was and wasn't protected? Am I "warped" for objecting to the idea that buying a paper or supporting Democrats is equivalent to arming terrorists?

 

[gmichael]

Are you saying I made up the sub-prime lending crisis? That I made up the figures for the stock market for Clinton's term? That I made up the post-invasion strategy for what was and wasn't protected? Am I "warped" for objecting to the idea that buying a paper or supporting Democrats is equivalent to arming terrorists?

I'm saying that your facts have been twisted and taken out of context to sound like they mean something other that what they really do.

 

[avaserfi]

I'm saying that your facts have been twisted and taken out of context to sound like they mean something other that what they really do.

We all know that no political party skews the facts in their favor

 

[gmichael]

LOL....

I added to your reputation anyways

Right back at ya...

 

[gmichael]

We all know that no political party skews the facts in their favor

All of them (or both if you like) do. Never said they didn't. Only that it's true of his points as well.

 

[zhimbo]

I'm saying that your facts have been twisted and taken out of context to sound like they mean something other that what they really do.

Just to be clear - you say MY facts are out of context, even though I paired them up with what the original message said...

But the original message was just fine and needed no further context?

Are "conservative facts" all good as-is, but non-conservative facts are all twisted and out of context?

 

[avaserfi]

All of them (or both if you like) do. Never said they didn't. Only that it's true of his points as well.

My point was that everything you are saying has a conservative slant and the opposite for him. You to bickering gets everyone no where and neither of your views are going to change...

 

[gmichael]

Just to be clear - you say MY facts are out of context, even though I paired them up with what the original message said...

But the original message was just fine and needed no further context?

Yes, there's more to it than that, but I'll let you try to see the light on your own.

 

[gmichael]

My point was that everything you are saying has a conservative slant and the opposite for him. You to bickering gets everyone no where and neither of your views are going to change...

But I thought we were supposed to vent here. I'll stop if you guys want me to.

 

[zhimbo]

Only that it's true of his points as well.

Really? Explain how any one of them means something different than what I presented.

I don' t know how you can do that, as I only presented them as balance to points brought up in the original message. (Yes home ownership is high...but we're also in the midst of a developing sub-prime lending crisis.).

This isn't a formal debate club or anything, so do what you like. I'm just baffled as to why you present the original post without comment, but feel my additional relevant information is "warped".

 

[avaserfi]

But I thought we were supposed to vent here. I'll stop if you guys want me to.

Not saying that do what you wish free speech is something I do believe in. I am just saying there is no point except that you get it off your chest since you guys are arguing and unwilling to accept each others viewpoints as your own. You could go vent to a wall and it would probably have the same effect .

 

[gmichael]

Really? Explain how any one of them means something different than what I presented.

I don' t know how you can do that, as I only presented them as balance to points brought up in the original message. (Yes home ownership is high...but we're also in the midst of a developing sub-prime lending crisis.).

This isn't a formal debate club or anything, so do what you like. I'm just baffled as to why you present the original post without comment, but feel my additional relevant information is "warped".

Would it change your view?

 

[gmichael]

Not saying that do what you wish free speech is something I do believe in. I am just saying there is no point except that you get it off your chest since you guys are arguing and unwilling to accept each others viewpoints as your own. You could go vent to a wall and it would probably have the same effect .

I'll just go.

 

[zhimbo]

you guys are arguing and unwilling to accept each others viewpoints as your own.

I object. I'm more than willing to consider evidence and arguments from other viewpoints. I just haven't received any.

 

[avaserfi]

I object. I'm more than willing to consider evidence and arguments from other viewpoints. I just haven't received any.

I believe that, but the way this argument was going no where in the regards to acceptance.