Denon AVR-4308CI First Look

[admin]

The Denon AVR-4308CI picks up where the AVR-4306CI left off, adding some incredible new features that will make the new "digital" age of audio and high-definition video even easier to use. The AVR-4308CI ramps up HDMI capabilities along with power, Zone 2/3 functionality, Internet streaming features and... wait for it... adds Wi-Fi capability! Now you don't have to run a cable to your receiver to enable streaming of Internet radio or music from a local PC provided you have wireless access in your room.

Discuss "Denon AVR-4308CI First Look" here. Read the article.

 

[avaserfi]

Denon's new line is pretty impressive. I just wonder how many people will be that interested with Onkyo's new line being as competitive and considerably less money. Only time will tell.

 

[smurphy522]

4308CI has HD radio too

I saw an HD radio emblem on the front and rear panels. This is something I was waiting for HT receivers to start featuring. It is a wonderful technology that for what ever reason is not being adopted quickly. IMO there are many other inferior technologies being widely adopted. There I said it, my rant for the day!

 

[Jim Robbins]

I have really been looking forward to this system. I have been drooling over the preliminary specs since the last CES. Looks pretty similar to the 3808ci with only a few extras.

I currently own the Denon 3805, and it sounds pretty good with my HT setup. I'd really like the HDMI ports on the unit, however. I am using an external HDMI switcher and all audio runs via optical or coax right now. I wonder if buying this new unit is justified right now. It is one of the first versions with HDMI 1.3, so it might have some bugs. Heck, everything has bugs. I had to reboot my oven once (all electronic controls). No kidding!

Any opinions?

 

[avaserfi]

If I were you and you are happy with the 3805 I would look into upgrading speakers . If you really want a new receiver I would wait a bit and compare the 4308 and the Onkyo that will be coming out around the same time, I think the NR905. The Onkyo is a bit cheaper and might be the better machine in the end but no one will know until they are released and we get a wonderful review .

 

[Jim Robbins]

http://www.jdrobbins.com/home_theater.htm

You can see a list of my gear on that page. Anyway, I am pretty happy with the Infinity Kappa speakers. I have another pair on a Rotel Receiver and CD player for my 2 channel setup, and it sounds better for music than this setup does. I know it's partly the hardware, but it might be the room config as well. Anyway... I probably need some room treatments before I step up to a receiver. But again, the Denon 4308ci is very tempting! So full of lots of cool new things. I am guessing the Audyssey MultiEQ is better than the single point system in my current Denon. I am also wondering if I'd be better off breaking into the separates world. *shrug Anyway, what do you think?

 

[avaserfi]

I think you have a really nice system. Since you are happy with your speakers I would say your next step should be acoustics along with acoustics I would suggest getting away from the Audyssey EQ I started out using mine and once I got my SPL from radioshack found out I could do a better job myself without much money or too much time invested. While you are doing all that and spending your money there you can see how these new lines of receivers stack up and if they are worth your money .

 

[pbarach1]

I would suggest getting away from the Audyssey EQ I started out using mine and once I got my SPL from radioshack found out I could do a better job myself without much money or too much time invested.

I don't understand; Audyssey and an SPL do different things, with only one thing in common--setting the volume levels for each channel. How can you do the same thing as the Audyssey (but better) with an SPL?

 

[avaserfi]

Audyssey eq sets the channel levels as well as setting up the eq. With a good SPL you can easily set all the channel levels after that using a calibration disc with test tones and an spl you can set the eq manually by playing the specific frequency and measuring how loud it is with the SPL then adjusting your eq settings appropriately.

 

[shamus]

Audyssey eq sets the channel levels as well as setting up the eq. With a good SPL you can easily set all the channel levels after that using a calibration disc with test tones and an spl you can set the eq manually by playing the specific frequency and measuring how loud it is with the SPL then adjusting your eq settings appropriately.

Audyssey is not that simple.

 

[avaserfi]

Audyssey is not that simple.

While that is a very nice statement it says nothing of value. Audyssey sets channel levels as well as programs an EQ for the user and sets speaker sizes and distances. All things that can be done yourself if you are willing to spend the time.


edit: From the Audyssey FAQ

"During automatic set-up MultEQ first finds how many loudspeakers are connected in the system, then determines the loudspeaker type (satellite or subwoofer), checks the absolute polarity of each channel, and identifies the optimum crossover frequency for each loudspeaker and the subwoofer(s). After that it calculates the distance between each loudspeaker and the first microphone position in order to automatically sets the appropriate delays. Finally, it identifies any level differences among the loudspeakers and automatically sets the trims."

Now lets look at what it does:

-Finds loudspeakers - calibration discs do the same

-Polarity - again calibration discs

-Crossover frequency - many people have found this setting to be wrong. Reading about your speakers and using a calibration disc can fix that problem

-Distance - while not as important generally does a good job minus the sub

-Delays and Trims - The spl and a calibration disc are your friend here.

-Speaker Size - lets not forget how Audyssey loves setting speakers to large.

I used Audyssey very happily until recently when I got a SPL meter and started toying with it then I realized what I was missing. I have better and more accurate frequency response across my total range causing for a much more pleasant movie and music experience which was not only noted by my SPL but also by my ears and my girls too as the speaking in movies was far more clear.

 

[Jase]

Audyssey also does the following:-

http://www.audyssey.com/multEQ.html

"How does MultEQ measure your Calculated System room differently?

MultEQ looks at patterns in the time domain responses and classifies them into clusters based on the similarities in those patterns, typically in 3-5 groups. A representative response is created from each cluster, and a final response is then created from grouping the representatives. That response is then used to create the EQ filter. It is a complicated process that is based on the complex mathematics of pattern recognition and fuzzy logic. But there is nothing fuzzy about the results. If you want to know more, we offer copies of selected publications we have written for technical conferences.

Time and Frequency correction:
1) The time domain is where many of the problems reside. Parametric and graphic equalizers can only correct for the frequency response and do so in a very coarse manner because they have limited resolution (bands).

2) Further, whether they have fixed or adjustable bands it does not matter because bands cause phase problems that most people hear as “ringing” or “smearing.” This is why, after thirty plus years of trying this method most people don’t like the results and turn it off.

How does MultEQ address time and frequency problems?
MultEQ filters start in the time domain. They are not just a few parametric bands. Instead they use several hundred points to represent the room response in both the frequency and time domains.

The trick is to use enough filter points to get the needed resolution, but not so many that it overwhelms the processor inside the audio component. So, we came up with a way to reduce the number of points without sacrificing accuracy and a way to provide more filter power at lower frequencies where it is needed the most. MultEQ can correct 8 channels by using only a fraction of a single DSP chip. This gives you the best of both worlds: time and frequency correction. Result—room correction that works for the first time ever."

And from the link you posted to the Audyssey FAQ:-

"How is MultEQ different from other equalization methods?

There are two fundamental differences from every other method available in AV receivers today. The first is that MultEQ is not based on parametric equalization. Parametric equalization relies on a few bands that are centered at certain frequencies. These bands do not provide sufficient resolution to address many room acoustical problems. Also, parametric bands tend to interact so that changes at one frequency have undesirable results at nearby frequencies. Moreover, parametric equalization methods use a particular type of digital filter called Infinite Impulse Response (IIR) that only attempts to correct the magnitude response in the frequency domain. These filters can cause unwanted effects, such as ringing or smearing, in the time domain particularly as the bands get narrower. MultEQ uses Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters for equalization that use several hundred coefficients to achieve much higher resolution in the frequency domain than parametric bands. Furthermore, by their nature, FIR filters simulatneously provide correction in the frequency and time domains. FIR filters had been considered to require too many computational resources. But Audyssey solved this problem by using a special frequency scale that allocates more power to the lower frequencies where it is needed the most.

The second major difference is that MultEQ combines multiple measurements to create equalization filters that better represent the acoustical problems in the room. Most other methods only perform a single point measurement and this can result in making other locations in the room sound worse than before equalization. There are some methods that use spatial averaging to combine multiple room measurements. Although this is a step above single-point correction, it does not provide optimum correction when discussing spatial averaging. For example, it is common to find a peak at a certain frequency in one location and a dip at the same frequency at another nearby location. The averaging methods will add the peak and the dip and this will result in an apparent flat response at that frequency, thus causing the equalization filter to take no action. MultEQ uses a clustering method to combine measurements so that acoustical problems are better represented, thus allowing the equalization filter to perform the appropriate correction at each location."

 

[TRT]

What to do?

The Denon AVR-4308CI picks up where the AVR-4306CI left off, adding some incredible new features that will make the new "digital" age of audio and high-definition video even easier to use. The AVR-4308CI ramps up HDMI capabilities along with power, Zone 2/3 functionality, Internet streaming features and... wait for it... adds Wi-Fi capability! Now you don't have to run a cable to your receiver to enable streaming of Internet radio or music from a local PC provided you have wireless access in your room.

Discuss "Denon AVR-4308CI First Look" here. Read the article.

I guess the only question for me is, Will the Faroudja DCDi scale better than the Reon HQV that Integra will be offering? I think I'll go with The Integra DTC-9.8 pre-pro, but as a Denon AVR-3805 owner, I'm a little torn. Plus no THX Ultra 2 certification for a grand more. Denon has priced me out and provided less goodies and more junk nobody needs.

 

[ohio]

No comment on features or price, but when I spend $2500 on a piece of electronics, I really don't want it to have 23 laser-etched logos on the front.

 

[TRT]

Denon's new line is pretty impressive. I just wonder how many people will be that interested with Onkyo's new line being as competitive and considerably less money. Only time will tell.

The Integra line as well.

 

[TRT]

Denon (Faroudja) vs. Integra (Reon)

If it is really true that the Faroudja will not scale 1080i, then the Integra and Onkyo higher-end products will run the table on the A/V industry this year.

 

[NainoKami]

No comment on features or price, but when I spend $2500 on a piece of electronics, I really don't want it to have 23 laser-etched logos on the front.

I second that! Wondering whether or not to upgrade from my 4306... Probably not I guess. The thing I would like is HDMI 1.3 but I'll probably wait a few years.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Denon's new line is pretty impressive. I just wonder how many people will be that interested with Onkyo's new line being as competitive and considerably less money. Only time will tell.

Yeah, I wonder that myself. But won't these new receivers sound just as "good" as the previous models? The only difference is increased features, right?
I bet if they did an A/B single or double blinded test, they would not be able to hear a difference at all between the new Denon vs Onkyo (or Yamaha when they come out).
But "audiophiles" like us just like to spend money on new gears, don't we
Let's see...........who can I sell my 2 year old receiver to?

 

[BabelFish]

I keep reading that the unit should not be out until next month but Audioholics stated later this month.. which is true? Does anyone have any info?

 

[Warpdrv]

Babel, have you stopped talking to us all here..?

We have had several posts with your name on them, and you have been MIA...

Whats up bro... wondering how your equipment sounds...