JLAudio Fathom f112/f113

[nasd90]

I did a search and was amazed that nobody touched on these fantastic subs from JLAudio. If you haven't seen them, heard of them, or read about them I highly suggest it.

I'm debating it... but just a little out of my range... or are they ?

:-0

Anyone have any experience ? I've heard they're the best subs on the planet.


Cheers

Nick

 

[mike c]

... I've heard they're the best subs on the planet.


Cheers

Nick

you must have come from AVSforum?

 

[nasd90]

Not sure what you mean, but I do deserve the jab.... Hell, I'm a newbie so let'rr rip.

I was just doing some reading and was pretty impressed, and was wondering why I couldn't find anything written on this forum about them.

Please elaborate if you can.

 

[WmAx]

I did a search and was amazed that nobody touched on these fantastic subs from JLAudio. If you haven't seen them, heard of them, or read about them I highly suggest it.

I'm debating it... but just a little out of my range... or are they ?

:-0

Anyone have any experience ? I've heard they're the best subs on the planet.


Cheers

Nick

They are certainly using drivers of extraordinary quality. BTW, if you are not afraid to do a little bit of woodwork, you can build one for yourself using the W7 car audio driver plus a Behringer EP2500 amplifier. With the going prices on eBay for the drivers, and considering wood, finish and amplifier costs... you could make your own for well under the $1K USD mark.

-Chris

 

[Warpdrv]

Hmmmmm Have you used the search tool here...?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30638&highlight=fathom

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26207&highlight=fathom

 

[ssabripo]

....you can build one for yourself using the W7 car audio driver plus a Behringer EP2500 amplifier. With the going prices on eBay for the drivers, and considering wood, finish and amplifier costs... you could make your own for well under the $1K USD mark.

-Chris

Not really Chris.

the W7 used in the fathom F113 and Gotham 213 is a modified version of the car w7, with a beefier motor (for higher power handling and better thermal compression, specifically for the size box of the fathom) and some suspension changes. The EP2500 is nowhere near the power handling of the fathom's amp...you would need to go to a crown XTi, K2, CE, or equivalent QSC.....and would have to add a DEQ2946 or PL-02 for processing/filters.

I agree that if you can go DIY, you can make a "clone" cheaper, but it aint gonna be $1000....

 

[darien87]

Not sure what you mean, but I do deserve the jab.... Hell, I'm a newbie so let'rr rip.

I was just doing some reading and was pretty impressed, and was wondering why I couldn't find anything written on this forum about them.

Please elaborate if you can.

I started a thread about these subs a couple of months ago. I don't know anyone that's heard them, but I have heard nothing but positive reviews about them. Unfortunately, their price tag makes them somewhat exclusive. If you've got the 3 grand to drop on one of these babies, by all means, go ahead. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

 

[indcrimdefense]

both dealers i use in indy have talked about them, one is considering becoming a fathom dealer (that dealer carries jl audio for cars but if i remember correctly that does not automatically make one a "fathom" jl dealer & the other i think has them on the way, but i have yet to hear them. has anyone actually heard them yet & if so what were the results??

 

[InTheIndustry]

I'm a JLAudio Fathom dealer here in SW Ohio. I have had extensive use with two models in the product line (f112 & f113). Both are serious pieces of gear and are intended for upper-tier theaters. I have not heard the Gotham prduct, but JLAudio and I had a really honest conversation and basically came to the conclusion that two f113's spread in a room would give a better bass experience than one of the Gotham pieces and would cost significantly less as well. These types of honest solutions make companies like JLAudio invaluable to me as a dealer. In terms of performance, it's hard to describe (you just have to hear/feel it) but I would have to say that just scooting the f113 into place lets one know that the thing is serious. Without doubt it's my referance sub when a Phase Technology dARTS theater system is not within the customer's reach or the sub is wanted for retro-fit into existing gear or pre-wire.

The f112 is no slouch either and has been reviewed here at audioholics. Both pieces are big hitters, but the f113 just pounds and pounds without fade or "waffling".

The product I am really excited about is the f110. That's their new 10" that was supposed to start shipping in Feb. It's been pushed back to June, but at $2000 it's within a lot more people's reach than $3K+ and is really suitable for a lot of rooms.

For those of you who think you can either build something just as good for $1K or buy something for less and have it be better, yet have never heard the sub(s) perform I would love to see it. Hell, I'd love to buy it!

 

[ssabripo]

I'm a JLAudio Fathom dealer here in SW Ohio. I have had extensive use with two models in the product line (f112 & f113). Both are serious pieces of gear and are intended for upper-tier theaters. I have not heard the Gotham prduct, but JLAudio and I had a really honest conversation and basically came to the conclusion that two f113's spread in a room would give a better bass experience than one of the Gotham pieces and would cost significantly less as well. These types of honest solutions make companies like JLAudio invaluable to me as a dealer. In terms of performance, it's hard to describe (you just have to hear/feel it) but I would have to say that just scooting the f113 into place lets one know that the thing is serious. Without doubt it's my referance sub when a Phase Technology dARTS theater system is not within the customer's reach or the sub is wanted for retro-fit into existing gear or pre-wire.

The f112 is no slouch either and has been reviewed here at audioholics. Both pieces are big hitters, but the f113 just pounds and pounds without fade or "waffling".

The product I am really excited about is the f110. That's their new 10" that was supposed to start shipping in Feb. It's been pushed back to June, but at $2000 it's within a lot more people's reach than $3K+ and is really suitable for a lot of rooms.

For those of you who think you can either build something just as good for $1K or buy something for less and have it be better, yet have never heard the sub(s) perform I would love to see it. Hell, I'd love to buy it!

Not trying to disagree with you, as I'm sure your conversation may have had that tone, but whoever told you that from JL audio was not Carl Kennedy, Manville smith, or Lucho himself!

We just had a nice one day long insider tour of JL audio:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=819899

Specifically, Carl and Manville were very straight forward in saying that although two F113s may help in certain rooms as far as a smoother FR, in sheer headroom and extension, a single Gotham will beat two Fathoms.....they even hinted that it will be close to almost 3 fathoms.

We had a chance to hear it live, and it is a monster.....period. There are some pics of the facility and our tour there. Both Fathom and Gotham are really outstanding products, but the gotham is truly a pretty neat animal......LFE speaking of course

 

[annunaki]

I would not doubt there may be small tweaks to the home version of the W7 (if any), but I doubt there is a larger motor assembly for power compression issues. These subs have unbelievable limits for compression. The 12" version (actual driver) does not reach 10% (audible distortion) until it is fed 2,000-2,500 watts of RMS power. The sub stays linear until only the highest power levels. The 13.5" version does not reach this distortion level until 3000 watts rms power. This was verified by Tom Nousaine from Mobile Entertainment/Car Audio and Electronics Magazine a few years back. The power burst tests on the 13.5" versions were astounding at near 30,000 watts I believe. (burst tests were for just a couple miliseconds)

The car versions have lower power ratings because JL has no idea what amplifier will be used on the woofer and cannot control the enclosure size. Car audio customers are typically much more abusive on their equipment as well. Since the power and enclosure are controlled and or limited. JL Audio can run the woofer (at high output levels) much closer to the subs peak performance envelope.

Sorry, I could not find the reviews.

 

[annunaki]

Chris(Wmax),

What are your thoughts on using the JL audio subs 12" and 13.5" with the EP2500? What about the fact that they are 3 ohms nominal 2.47 and 2.41 ohms(Re) DC resistance respectively? The EP2500 is only good to 4 ohms mono is it not? This was the issue I have run into in looking at constructing my own.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Not trying to disagree with you, as I'm sure your conversation may have had that tone, but whoever told you that from JL audio was not Carl Kennedy, Manville smith, or Lucho himself!

We just had a nice one day long insider tour of JL audio:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=819899

Specifically, Carl and Manville were very straight forward in saying that although two F113s may help in certain rooms as far as a smoother FR, in sheer headroom and extension, a single Gotham will beat two Fathoms.....they even hinted that it will be close to almost 3 fathoms.

We had a chance to hear it live, and it is a monster.....period. There are some pics of the facility and our tour there. Both Fathom and Gotham are really outstanding products, but the gotham is truly a pretty neat animal......LFE speaking of course

As stated in my previous post I have yet to hear the Gotham and am currious about it.

My conversation with JL was back in February and was centered around their product line and my market (primarily Dayton/Cincinnati, Ohio). For the typical HT room, my contact at JL really felt that a better over all bass experience would be had when coupling two f113's together over a single Gotham (which made sense to me). However, he might be infrancing the demo that you heard when you visited JL. I would guess that's the CEDIA demo they've been usinig the past few years. Not to dissagree with you (I read your link it it sounded like a really cool exprerience), but I will call them again and ask more specific questions. To be honest, though, this is probably all moot because in the Gothams price range I would more than likely be doing a dARTS or Meridian system which pushes the Gotham out. But, this info is always good to know. Thanks!

 

[ssabripo]

I would not doubt there may be small tweaks to the home version of the W7 (if any), but I doubt there is a larger motor assembly for power compression issues. These subs have unbelievable limits for compression. The 12" version (actual driver) does not reach 10% (audible distortion) until it is fed 2,000-2,500 watts of RMS power. The sub stays linear until only the highest power levels. The 13.5" version does not reach this distortion level until 3000 watts rms power. This was verified by Tom Nousaine from Mobile Entertainment/Car Audio and Electronics Magazine a few years back. The power burst tests on the 13.5" versions were astounding at near 30,000 watts I believe. (burst tests were for just a couple miliseconds)

The car versions have lower power ratings because JL has no idea what amplifier will be used on the woofer and cannot control the enclosure size. Car audio customers are typically much more abusive on their equipment as well. Since the power and enclosure are controlled and or limited. JL Audio can run the woofer (at high output levels) much closer to the subs peak performance envelope.

Sorry, I could not find the reviews.

As I mentioned before, we spent a whole entire day at JL's facility in Pembroke pines, talked in detail with Carl Kennedy and the engineers of the fathom/gotham subs, met and talked to the chief himself, Lucho, saw the production lines of the gotham and fathom, saw how they build the W7 for the car version, and the W7 for the home fathoms, etc, etc.

they are different! Feel free to shoot JL an email or call them up if you still have doubts. the 13W7 in the fathom has been tested for extreme transients and the amount of thermal compression it has to undergo in that small a cabinet (almost no internal air volume left with amp and driver in place), the motor was changed accordingly.....this is not my "impression".....this is directly stated to us from JL during the tour. One of our tour participants asked exactly that: could someone use the 13w7 and make a fathom, and the answer was very clear: you can make a "clone" but it will be a different driver and will have different SQ characteristics.

As stated in my previous post I have yet to hear the Gotham and am currious about it.

My conversation with JL was back in February and was centered around their product line and my market (primarily Dayton/Cincinnati, Ohio). For the typical HT room, my contact at JL really felt that a better over all bass experience would be had when coupling two f113's together over a single Gotham (which made sense to me). However, he might be infrancing the demo that you heard when you visited JL. I would guess that's the CEDIA demo they've been usinig the past few years. Not to dissagree with you (I read your link it it sounded like a really cool exprerience), but I will call them again and ask more specific questions. To be honest, though, this is probably all moot because in the Gothams price range I would more than likely be doing a dARTS or Meridian system which pushes the Gotham out. But, this info is always good to know. Thanks!

The demo we saw was not the CEDIA version. We actually got to see and hear the very first production Gotham in all its glory! serial # xx0001, believe it or not; its going to one of their dealers who is first in line:

guys, feel free to read some more insights into this very rare trip to the JL facility in the link I gave. Also, more here:
http://www.audiojunkies.com/

 

[annunaki]

What is different?

I am intimately familiar with the driver in question. It is identical to the car version in your photos. I have not heard anything in detail as yet from JL. Just saying "its different" doesn't mean anything to me. Some companies (I know JL has not been one of them in the past) change model numbers and say something is different but none of the parameters or specifications change. I am not saying that JL didn't do something but they have been very secretive about EXACTLY what is different here. That is not usually the case with them.

"amount of thermal compression it has to undergo in that small a cabinet"

Does this mean they removed the unremovable rubber boot from the magnet from the car version to allow it to run cooler? It appears so in the picture. The rubber boot on the magnet is molded during construction I do believe.

Due to the fact that the sub can work in small enclosures (to begin with), sufficent headroom in the amplifier, as well as a specific eq curve built into the amplifier's response (for that encloure volume), they can make it work using the same sub. Could someone duplicate it, not easily.

Because the woofer has unbelievable linearity in the suspension and motor, it is possible to lower enclosure volume and compensate with increased power and equalizer to make up the difference. To me, this makes complete sense as to why the need so much power for these home subs.

 

[InTheIndustry]

The demo we saw was not the CEDIA version. We actually got to see and hear the very first production Gotham in all its glory! serial # xx0001, believe it or not; its going to one of their dealers who is first in line:
[[/url]

Sorry I didn't make it clear when I stated "CEDIA demo". I was refering to the CEDIA demo that used multiple f112 & f113. I am curious if the one I spoke with at JL was infrencing that when discussing using two f113's instead of one Gotham. Or, if he was looking at spec sheets and guessing. We'll find out.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I was just reading up on the Gotham.

OMG.... that thing weighs over 400lbs!!

How much does it cost?

 

[InTheIndustry]

Gotaham MSRP: $9K

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

How low does it go? The website didnt show frequency response capabilities for any of their subs.

I'll bet listening to the Gotham is akin to an out of body experience.

 

[WmAx]

What is different?

You are right, merely saying it is different is not satisfactory. But it is easy to speculate based on probability: they changed minor electrical and/or mechanical properties to get different T&S parameters to make it more optimized for their idea of a home speaker, so far as the cabinet they used it in.

-Chris