Ten Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

[Audioholics]

Perhaps, purpleray or deathray, we'll see!

Classic... wish I had thought of that!

 

[Seth=L]

Don't forget "Sting-Ray". That is the one where you feel the "sting" when you just spent $1000 on a thingy that plays movies, that may be replaced the following year with HVD or Holigraphic cube thingers that store an entire movie in "Virtual Smello-Vision".

 

[Sleestack]

I have been to three Home Theater Stores....High End audio and video stores and none of them are really all that excited about the new formats.
One dealer told me that there store called all of there high end customers that have purchased equipment from them over the last 2-3 years to find out if people were intending to upgrade to Blu-Ray or HD and the end result was that people have very little interest in either format.

Which high end stores are you going to and what kind of high end customers are you talking about?

While the content needs to keep rolling out, I have a hard time believeing that high end stores dealing with high end customers aren't excited about HD-DVD or Blu-ray. Most of my videophile friends have already picked up 1080p panels or projectors and are absoultely gushing over the picture quality of the new formats. I bought MI3 on Blu-ray and DVD to do my own testing. Even compared to my 5910ci upscaling to 1080p, the Blu-ray version was significantly better.

1080p is here. While it hasn't been widely adopted by the average consumer, the high end market is all over it. As bigger 1080 panels and projectors become more redily available, I think it is inevitable that one of the formats will gain steam.

 

[stratman]

I would guess true early adopters are in the upper brackets of the economy so getting burnt by crap electronics is no big deal, I mean you get bragging rights and the satisfaction of being a guinea pig. I think you have to strike a median between early adopter and also ran, and I hate to say it sometimes it comes down to the checkbook. My philosophy on this is simple: I usually wait for the second generation (sometimes third) then pull the trigger. Most electronics have 80-90% percent of their worst bugs out by this time, and prices due to competition have decreased. So while I might not be the first I end up happier with a more reliable and less expensive gadget. Just food for thought!

 

[Sleestack]

I would guess true early adopters are in the upper brackets of the economy so getting burnt by crap electronics is no big deal, I mean you get bragging rights and the satisfaction of being a guinea pig. I think you have to strike a median between early adopter and also ran, and I hate to say it sometimes it comes down to the checkbook.

Yes, but the thing is, we aren't talking about compromised electronics. Granted, better Blu-ray and the new HD-DVD players will be coming out, but it's not like the available 1080p panels and existing players are "crap electronics." Panels like the Pro-FHD1 and my TH-65PF9U are simply stunning. You do a premium, but it has nothing to do with bragging rights or getting satisfaction out of being a guinea pig. It's about getting an amazing picture on a big panel/screen and being able to sit close enought to get a completely engrossing experience.

 

[stratman]

You still won't know how reliable your equipment is untill time goes by that's why I always wait for second generation products, not as many patches and fixes. What I mean be "crap" electronics is: you pay alot of money upfront for early adoption and most of the time there will be issues, if you're going to pay the kind of money that early adopters pay and still have issues that in my book is CRAP. When I pay top dollar for anything from guitars to cars there better be no issues( that's why I payed top dollars). And you will be a guinea pig because in your passion to adopt early common sense goes out the door and you're at the mercy of the manufacturer. BTW, I didn't mean you personally, it's rhetorical. MOst new technology is compromised that's why there's a second gen in a very short span.

 

[Sleestack]

I can defintely see your point, although I think the newer high end 1080p panels are beyond that stage. I can't say the same for the sources, but they certainly do provide a superior viewing experience compared to DVD. In either case, I also think early adopters, especially in the high end market, have a propensity for frequent gear turnover.

When comes to cars, I find that high end cars have many issues. They usually relate to limited production or overly advanced electronics.

As for guitars. I'm a piano player, but my best friend just got this Callahan Strat. after 2 years of waiting on the order. A little off topic, but:

You still won't know how reliable your equipment is untill time goes by that's why I always wait for second generation products, not as many patches and fixes. What I mean be "crap" electronics is: you pay alot of money upfront for early adoption and most of the time there will be issues, if you're going to pay the kind of money that early adopters pay and still have issues that in my book is CRAP. When I pay top dollar for anything from guitars to cars there better be no issues( that's why I payed top dollars). And you will be a guinea pig because in your passion to adopt early common sense goes out the door and you're at the mercy of the manufacturer. BTW, I didn't mean you personally, it's rhetorical. MOst new technology is compromised that's why there's a second gen in a very short span.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Oooo ...... shiny!

 

[Vault 35]

I heard scattered news reports that one of the things SONY promised everyone about the PS3 is that it would play the kids' old PS2 games and regular CDs & DVDs. Since the first machines have been bleeding into the market over the last few days, I have also heard news reports that this promise has been broken--the youngsters are running into problems when they try to play their PS2 games on the PS3. If they are having problems with the games, what about the thousands of dollars worth of CDs sitting on our shelves?

 

[stratman]

HEY SLEESTACK NICE PICTURES!!! THANXS,
You're right early adopters mostly have frequent gear turnover and that's expensive. I rather wait, spend good money on proven tech rather than throw good money after bad.

 

[jcrobso]

To Stratman!!!

What Strat do you have???
I have a 1960 Strat that got when I was in high school. John

 

[stratman]

What Strat do you have???
I have a 1960 Strat that got when I was in high school. John

That sounds sweeeet, what color finish? I have at this moment a 1993 Strat PLus,with Lacey pick-ups and maple fretboard. It also has locking tuners and a factory whammy.......Also a 1960 re-issue Les Paul Gold Top (bullion gold) which I bought in 1992. In the early 80's, I had an ESP Mirage with Seymour Duncan pick ups and a Floyd Rose whammy, I also had another Strat which I didn't care for, made in Japan, sold it after a couple of months....I'm looking at a Taylor acoustic, but haven't made up my mind yet.
The only amp I own now is a Marshall 4102 JCM 900 100 watt combo. Over the years I've owned Teles, Explorers, a couple of Flying Vs, I've never owned, but I used my buddy's SG which is ok.

 

[Riot Nrrrd™]

I look at Sleestack's .sig and realize that the total gear expenditure involved probably rivals my entire inheritance from my mother's modest estate

It'll be interesting to see what happens in about a year or so when Sleestack sees the first production model Toshiba/Canon SED TVs and realizes that all that $7500+ spent on the Panny 65" is like paying for an SD display vs. an HD

(All kidding aside, I'm muy jealous of that gear list. I meant to respond to Clint's post proper, but I got distracted )

Riot

EDIT: I posted this at 5:04 AM PST wall clock time, and my post is showing up as being posted at "04:16 AM". WTF? Is the forums server clock really running 48 minutes slow?

 

[BMXTRIX]

I heard scattered news reports that one of the things SONY promised everyone about the PS3 is that it would play the kids' old PS2 games and regular CDs & DVDs. Since the first machines have been bleeding into the market over the last few days, I have also heard news reports that this promise has been broken--the youngsters are running into problems when they try to play their PS2 games on the PS3. If they are having problems with the games, what about the thousands of dollars worth of CDs sitting on our shelves?

CDs follow a Redbook standard which means that all CDs are encoded the exact same way. Unlike PS2 and PS1 games which used a different video card and had different chips running everything. CDs will be easy in comparison here.

I've had my PS3 since this past Friday - and I've gotta say that it simply has been awesome for me - so far. Looks great, works very well. Blu-ray and HD-DVD may have many years of serious growth ahead of them and X360 and PS3 sales have been strong in regards to the HD disc capabilities of those players.

 

[techigirl78]

I heard scattered news reports that one of the things SONY promised everyone about the PS3 is that it would play the kids' old PS2 games and regular CDs & DVDs. Since the first machines have been bleeding into the market over the last few days, I have also heard news reports that this promise has been broken--the youngsters are running into problems when they try to play their PS2 games on the PS3. If they are having problems with the games, what about the thousands of dollars worth of CDs sitting on our shelves?

I haven't had problems playing PS2 games on my PS3. However, there's tons of XBox games that won't even load on my XBox 360.

CDs follow a Redbook standard which means that all CDs are encoded the exact same way. Unlike PS2 and PS1 games which used a different video card and had different chips running everything. CDs will be easy in comparison here.

I've had my PS3 since this past Friday - and I've gotta say that it simply has been awesome for me - so far. Looks great, works very well. Blu-ray and HD-DVD may have many years of serious growth ahead of them and X360 and PS3 sales have been strong in regards to the HD disc capabilities of those players.

I'm also very impressed with my PS3 and have picked up some, gasp, blu ray movies to check out as well. I'm not going to run out and replace all my DVDs, but I'd prefer to have some newer movies in high def. I'm not sure I really understand why other PS3 owners wouldn't feel the same way.

 

[ToxicFrog]

My brother just got a 46" 720P LCD. We just watched the HD-DVD of Chronicles of Riddick (off the Xbox360 HD-DVD). Suffice to say, it looked awesome. Be it Blu-ray or HD-DVD or something else, it needs to exist and blossom.

 

[stratman]

After all I've been seeing going to stores, talking to friends, and reading up, I'm not sure if the hi-def formats are going to die out. What I'm seeing (studios releasing movies in both formats bluray and Hd-DVD)is not a format war per se, but more of "which-flavor-do-you-like" mentality setting in. I strongly believe that if more studios jump on the bandwagon of dual release, this so-called format war is going to fizzle out. I predict by the end of the summer, hi-def players are going to be very affordable, price of software will come down and over the next couple of years hi-def machines(due to price drops)will make inroads to more consumers. Remember, when plasmas came out a few years ago? The industry wasn't expecting the numbers of units sold today ( I went back and read a couple of marketing journals)ofcourse hind sight is 20/20, so I find this very interesting how subtle nuances are absolutely changing the market. Lets see if we get sub 300.00 players by summer's end.

I just read the post by Mike C. regarding the the LG dual format player, my friends, give this a couple of months, I truly believe the war has ended. Now, if that LG will also support standard DVDs....

 

[stratman]

I smell banishment, 75 pound fiery red hot chicklets and all around mayhem coming down from Mt. Olympus

 

[aeronautica86]

Hahaha, this is the first time I have seen this thread (granted, I don't spend much time on this particular forum). Even when it was originally written I would have been fairly sceptical, but now it seems clear that the writer of the original piece was clearly mistaken. But then again, everything is clearing in hindsight.

HD-DVD and Blu-ray both offer a huge difference in image quality over standard DVD. Not to say that standard DVD is terrible, but having seen HD (both formats) movie content first hand, I can say that the difference is huge (as I'm sure almost everyone knows at this point). I don't own a HD disc player at the moment, and don't plan on buying one until someone comes out with a dual format player that incorporates all of the features of each format as well as having all the bugs worked out of it (also the time frame in which the companies begin using truely high quality audio and video DACs will be a big factor in my decision of when to finally pick one up). That all being said, I plan to own one this time next year if not sooner.

As far as how long the technology will last, I can't say. Its true that neither blu-ray or HD-DVD are a revolutionary technology (I suppose that could be argueable in blu-rays case), and therefore they are more likely to be succeeded by a new technology in the relatively near future (ie < 10 yrs). Personally however, I'm pretty content with 1080p and I don't see an need to upgrade past that anytime soon. Sure we can make higher resolution displays, but looking at the price/performance ratio, I think I'll be sticking with 1080p displays and sources for quite some time. Unless of course some drastic change happens in broadcasting that makes that technology completely obsolete, like TV broadcasting in something higher than 1080p (which I don't see happening in a long long loooooong time).

Due to the length of time this thread has been around, I'm sure this has already been discussed, but I didn't feel like reading all 14 pages...

 

[Audioholics]

I dunno. I actually still hold to my article as being pretty darn accurate so far. I wouldn't mind people discussing which particular points are proving to be incorrect - and remember, I've written this from a mass-market perspective.

I consider SACD and DVD-Audio to be the same level of "failure" in that they didn't replace the CD. It doesn't mean they don't sound great or that there aren't universal players, etc... It just means that your Dad doesn't have one and probably doesn't hear a difference or care.