Subwoofer Product and or placement recommendation

[shadyJ]

I would think that dual Speedwoofer 12S subs would have enough headroom given your tastes. I think you would be pretty happy with that setup. In a 2500 cubic foot room, I would guess you could hit 105 to 110 dB at your listening position with no problem, even in low bass.

 

[Capt'n_Ron]

I would think that dual Speedwoofer 12S subs would have enough headroom given your tastes. I think you would be pretty happy with that setup. In a 2500 cubic foot room, I would guess you could hit 105 to 110 dB at your listening position with no problem, even in low bass.

thanks for your input, its much appreciated. Sounds like the 2 HSU subs on the list would provide marginally more headroom as well as infrasonic output and mid bass punch.

 

[shadyJ]

thanks for your input, its much appreciated. Sounds like the 2 HSU subs on the list would provide marginally more headroom as well as infrasonic output and mid bass punch.

The two Hsu subs would provide a lot more headroom, but I don't think you will need it, given your description of your listening habits. But either way you go, you can't go wrong between those choices.

 

[Capt'n_Ron]

The two Hsu subs would provide a lot more headroom, but I don't think you will need it, given your description of your listening habits. But either way you go, you can't go wrong between those choices.

Thank you

 

[Capt'n_Ron]

update. I went with the twin RSL12S option and am underwhelmed with the output I am getting. I can only get about 93db bass region at my MLP. Where I am just starting to feel the bass. My return period ends Monday. I am not sure if I have room mode issue or setup issue or the sub is maxed out? I have run dirac many times adding up to 10db house curves and not getting much improvement. RSL says the amp needs a stronger signal than other amps to reach full potential. adding to the trim level results in an overly boomy result.

would appreciate any advice.

 

[TLS Guy]

update. I went with the twin RSL12S option and am underwhelmed with the output I am getting. I can only get about 93db bass region at my MLP. Where I am just starting to feel the bass. My return period ends Monday. I am not sure if I have room mode issue or setup issue or the sub is maxed out? I have run dirac many times adding up to 10db house curves and not getting much improvement. RSL says the amp needs a stronger signal than other amps to reach full potential. adding to the trim level results in an overly boomy result.

would appreciate any advice.

What are your main speakers? People forget that most of what is actually perceived as bass is above sub range, and a lot of it well above some range. If a speaker, for instance has inadequate baffle step compensation, the rig will sound bass shy, no matter what.

A rig to be any good needs to sound very good without the sub. If it does not, a sub will not cure it.

 

[j_garcia]

And where did you place them in the room? Is the footprint of the room more square or rectangular? Square-ish rooms have more modes.

 

[Happy Joe]

I spent literally decades trying to get the best subwoofer placement (in several locations as I moved around the country);
I suggest that you do the subwoofer crawl with whatever cheap or "loaned" subwoofer that you can get access to and let the result guide you..
https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/crawling-for-bass-subwoofer-placement. (Thanks Gene)
Historically, I have used variously; a home built 16 cubic foot 15 inch sub (before most folks actually found out about subwoofers). Then went through a number of JBL and altec powered variations before settling on a speed woofer (I still think that name is silly)... It should be noted that the eight 8 inch woofers in my current setup really have little need for subwoofer enhancement, except for a few albums and some movies. (The 16 cubic foot sub did teach me that it is possible to open up cracks in the seams between sections of drywall)....
The only thing that has kept me from going to multiple subs is that the speed woofer makes a fairly good end table; as it speedily goes no where while reproducing the very low lows.

Enjoy!

 

[TLS Guy]

I spent literally decades trying to get the best subwoofer placement (in several locations as I moved around the country);
I suggest that you do the subwoofer crawl with whatever cheap or "loaned" subwoofer that you can get access to and let the result guide you..
https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/crawling-for-bass-subwoofer-placement. (Thanks Gene)
Historically, I have used variously; a home built 16 cubic foot 15 inch sub (before most folks actually found out about subwoofers). Then went through a number of JBL and altec powered variations before settling on a speed woofer (I still think that name is silly)... It should be noted that the eight 8 inch woofers in my current setup really have little need for subwoofer enhancement, except for a few albums and some movies. (The 16 cubic foot sub did teach me that it is possible to open up cracks in the seams between sections of drywall)....
The only thing that has kept me from going to multiple subs is that the speed woofer makes a fairly good end table; as it speedily goes no where while reproducing the very low lows.

Enjoy!

I really need to know what your main speakers are and their specification. I don't think your problem is the Sub and replacing it probably won't help.

 

[Capt'n_Ron]

What are your main speakers? People forget that most of what is actually perceived as bass is above sub range, and a lot of it well above some range. If a speaker, for instance has inadequate baffle step compensation, the rig will sound bass shy, no matter what.

A rig to be any good needs to sound very good without the sub. If it does not, a sub will not cure it.

Dunlavy SC-IV, they sound great, flat to near 20hz

 

[Capt'n_Ron]

And where did you place them in the room? Is the footprint of the room more square or rectangular? Square-ish rooms have more modes.

Rectangular,
best two places using the REW room simulator. Problem with the sub on the front wall looks like its in a 38hz null so the sub on the rear wall is providing all the output from 30hz on up. the front sub is not doing much work from 30 and below. I was even considering stacking them in the better rear corner location?
front left inside the left main and right rear corner. no room to be outboard of the left main.

 

[TLS Guy]

Dunlavy SC-IV, they sound great, flat to near 20hz

Now I see your problem. The issue is primarily stacked crossovers.

Those speakers have a passive crossover at 100 Hz to the woofers. I have to say this is a really bad design. Passive crossovers below 400 Hz are fraught with problems, and in my view are a never do approach.

Integrating these speakers with a sub is going to be a real challenge as you have found out. If you use your sub above 40 Hz you will have serious problems like you are encountering.

So: - you can not use DIRAC it will not be compatible with your system.

I would also switch off Audyssey for now. Set your system to LFE + main. There is no other way to integrate a sub with those speakers. Now so as to avoid crossover interaction you need to set the crossover to 40 Hz, as it needs to be as close as an octave and half below 100 Hz. 40 Hz will be close enough to avoid stacking. Now set the sub output until it sounds right to you. After that you can meddle with Audyssey, and it might help you. Those speakers have a nasty peaked bass response centered on 70 Hz. As I say there are more incompetently deigned speakers than competently designed ones. Those speakers have a "howler" of a mistake. So if you can't get the results you want, it is different speakers you want and not a new sub.

That is your problem and it is tough one.

 

[Wardog555]

You need to do more testing of different locations

 

[shadyJ]

Now I see your problem. The issue is primarily stacked crossovers.

Those speakers have a passive crossover at 100 Hz to the woofers. I have to say this is a really bad design. Passive crossovers below 400 Hz are fraught with problems, and in my view are a never do approach.

Integrating these speakers with a sub is going to be a real challenge as you have found out. If you use your sub above 40 Hz you will have serious problems like you are encountering.

So: - you can not use DIRAC it will not be compatible with your system.

I would also switch off Audyssey for now. Set your system to LFE + main. There is no other way to integrate a sub with those speakers. Now so as to avoid crossover interaction you need to set the crossover to 40 Hz, as it needs to be as close as an octave and half below 100 Hz. 40 Hz will be close enough to avoid stacking. Now set the sub output until it sounds right to you. After that you can meddle with Audyssey, and it might help you. Those speakers have a nasty peaked bass response centered on 70 Hz. As I say there are more incompetently deigned speakers than competently designed ones. Those speakers have a "howler" of a mistake. So if you can't get the results you want, it is different speakers you want and not a new sub.

That is your problem and it is tough one.

Keep in mind that the testing done by Atkinson per your graph always boosts the low end. The port output probably is not as hot as what is shown there. It would be strange for the speaker to have such an otherwise flat response and then blow the low end like that.

 

[TLS Guy]

Keep in mind that the testing done by Atkinson per your graph always boosts the low end. The port output probably is not as hot as what is shown there. It would be strange for the speaker to have such an otherwise flat response and then blow the low end like that.

Not if you place a passive crossover at 100 HZ, that is design malpractice. But in any event crossover must be spaced at least 1.5 octaves apart and preferably more.

A 100 Hz crossover is going to create huge problems with a sub integration and cause a lot of other issues as well.

 

[Capt'n_Ron]

Now I see your problem. The issue is primarily stacked crossovers.

Those speakers have a passive crossover at 100 Hz to the woofers. I have to say this is a really bad design. Passive crossovers below 400 Hz are fraught with problems, and in my view are a never do approach.

Integrating these speakers with a sub is going to be a real challenge as you have found out. If you use your sub above 40 Hz you will have serious problems like you are encountering.

So: - you can not use DIRAC it will not be compatible with your system.

I would also switch off Audyssey for now. Set your system to LFE + main. There is no other way to integrate a sub with those speakers. Now so as to avoid crossover interaction you need to set the crossover to 40 Hz, as it needs to be as close as an octave and half below 100 Hz. 40 Hz will be close enough to avoid stacking. Now set the sub output until it sounds right to you. After that you can meddle with Audyssey, and it might help you. Those speakers have a nasty peaked bass response centered on 70 Hz. As I say there are more incompetently deigned speakers than competently designed ones. Those speakers have a "howler" of a mistake. So if you can't get the results you want, it is different speakers you want and not a new sub.

That is your problem and it is tough one.

it just seems wrong to x-over that low. I am neutering the subwoofers. I could try it though. I do have another set of speakers that are nice but don't go as low. MB Quart QLS 1030. The receiver is a Pioneer LX805 so no Audessy, its Dirac or Mcacc. Look at the different sub responses on the dirac graph. Sub1 if front left and #2 is Right rear.
as an aside I know the woofers were changed in the SC-IVA to get a more flat response down to 20hz. I have the Vifa woofers.
I appreciate all the help.

 

[Capt'n_Ron]

You need to do more testing of different locations

I have tried other positions with little difference.

 

[Wardog555]

Get bigger subs then if you have ruled out all other options.

 

[Capt'n_Ron]

Get bigger subs then if you have ruled out all other options.

If my issue is room or speaker related, I am not sure if bigger subs would be any better. What you say is true though. return window ends Monday. I need to do some testing.

 

[j_garcia]

Does the condition change if the listening position changes? Are you sitting near the wall or further into the room?

I have experienced where I had to move my listening position by ~1 ft to avoid a null. My room was square though and I was basically in the center, so ultimately I also had to move my sub to mitigate.