Dolby Atmos 3.1 or 3.1.2 - A/V Receiver and Speaker Recommendations

[03_zip.demo]

Different brand receivers will have different limitations concerning height speaker assignments based on the configuration of the ear level speakers. A Denon AVR-X4500H is going to be more limited in many different ways compared to a new AVR-X4800H.

Concerning 3.1.2, it can be done in any new receiver featuring at least seven amps for an X.1.2 configuration. I think I read in the original post that ALL speakers were going to be on the wall. I'll proceed as if that is the case.

Using a Denon receiver for 3.1.2, specifically the S970H, one needs to configure the amps for 7.1. Then, the actual Speakers to be used can be selected in the settings. For 3.1.2, the Front and Center speakers would be set to YES. The Surround and Surround Back speakers will be set to NO. Then, because we are working with wall mounted height speakers, Front Height speakers would be selected for the Atmos speakers, NOT Top Front(Ceiling Mounted), Top Middle(Ceiling Mounted) or Front Dolby(Bouncy House/Upfiring Speaker/Module.) The Surround Dolby option will be unavailable here when Surround speakers are not configured. Denon does not allow for Top Rear speakers in their 7.1 receivers.

I don't think I'd bother with Front Height speakers and would simply use Virtual Height speakers and do 3.1 here. Results will vary of course but when set to 3.1 with Speaker Virtualizer ON for Dolby Atmos tracks, my Onkyo spits out something better than just the DD+ signal sans Atmos metadata when playing Dolby Atmos music bitstreams with just 3.1. If the Speaker Virtualizer is OFF, Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization will not work and the Atmos metadata will be lost. The signal will now display as DD+ rather than Atmos/DD+.

All of this is based on the assumption that Surround speakers and Ceiling speakers are off the table in certain rooms here. Setting up the speakers will be a bit more complex using some receivers compared to other receivers. My seven channel Onkyo makes it easy. You can start at 2.1 and go up to 7.1. Then, after 7.1, you start at the beginning again but with Height speakers added into the mix. So, then it is 2.1.2 and so on up to 5.1.2. Onkyo actually does allow the use of Top Rear speakers with their seven channel receivers when configured for 3.1.2.

Here are some pics of a 3.1.2 configuration in action using my Onkyo for reference. I actually run a 5.1 configuration using two subs and Virtual Height Speakers. The Speaker Virtualizer must be ON to make use of Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization and DTS Virtual:X. Denons can also make use of both of them while others just Dolby. Apologies for pic quality. I’m not a fan of taking pics of TV screens.

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The pics look great - no concern there Thanks @Trebdp83 for the post and live Onkyo example.

What Onkyo model receiver are you using for your configuration?

I'm not quite sure I like the fact that you need to use the virtual heights, but it's certainly an option, if needed.

I'm looking for a receiver that supports overheads above the seated position as per the Dolby 3.1.2 overhead spec. This will help when the metadata has enabled positional (or even traditional speaker) audio channels to ensure the correct sounds are coming out of the correct locations.

 

[03_zip.demo]

For AVR, I would look at a Denon or Yamaha.

For speakers, I would look at KEF on your list.

Thanks for the reply @AcuDefTechGuy - have you personally heard any of these center channels? If yes, what do you think?
Soundbars | KEF USA

I was considering these, specifically the HTC8001, since it fits the dimensions that I mentioned at the top of this post. On a side note, when I looked at them, I wasn't sure why they are called "centers" when they all seem more like LCR speakers based on the fact that I see 6 terminals. When I dug in a little more, I saw that the HTC8001 comes with an adaptor / cable to drive all 3 speakers from the single center channel terminal on the receiver.

 

[Trebdp83]

I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-NR6050. On occasion, I switch it out with a Yamaha RX-V6A. I like to experiment with receivers and devices. I'm itching to get two more subs and a Denon AVR-X3800H to experiment with its "Directional" subwoofer setting. But, I digress.

When using real height speakers, no matter the location, there is no need to have the Speaker Virtualiizer ON. Owner's manuals can be a frustrating read. You can have "Top Middle" Height Speakers when using the Denon AVR-S970H even when using a 3.1.2 speaker configuration. The Surround Back speaker terminals are "ASSIGNABLE" and will send signals to the designated Height speakers when Surround Back speakers are set to "No." But, no matter the configuration, "Rear" Height speakers are not available at all and Surround Bouncers are off the table if NOT using Surround speakers in a 3.1.2 configuration. One could use a 3.1.2 configuration here and have "Top Middle" Height speakers.

 

[03_zip.demo]

I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-NR6050. On occasion, I switch it out with a Yamaha RX-V6A. I like to experiment with receivers and devices. I'm itching to get two more subs and a Denon AVR-X3800H to experiment with its "Directional" subwoofer setting. But, I digress.

When using real height speakers, no matter the location, there is no need to have the Speaker Virtualiizer ON. Owner's manuals can be a frustrating read. You can have "Top Middle" Height Speakers when using the Denon AVR-S970H even when using a 3.1.2 speaker configuration. The Surround Back speaker terminals are "ASSIGNABLE" and will send signals to the designated Height speakers when Surround Back speakers are set to "No." But, no matter the configuration, "Rear" Height speakers are not available at all and Surround Bouncers are off the table if NOT using Surround speakers in a 3.1.2 configuration. One could use a 3.1.2 configuration here and have "Top Middle" Height speakers.
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If I understand you correctly, you wrote that you could enable overhead TMs when the surrounds L/R are not enabled.

If you look at the page of the manual that you copied / pasted, the info on that page seems to contradict that:

1. When "Surround" is set to "No", "Surround Back" settings are automatically set to "No".
2. Height speakers can be used with the Surround Back terminal.

My understanding of what is written summarizes that it's not possible to enable overhead heights without surrounds. And if the surround L/Rs are enabled so you can enable the heights, then as the processor receives the metadata for each channel and sees an audio channel dedicated for the surround L/R (or a position that is to the left or right of the coordinate system of the seated position for true positional audio), than some sounds may not be heard because there are no speakers connected to the surround L/R terminals. You also can't just connect the heights to the surround L/Rs for a similar reason because sounds that are supposed to come out the L/R will now come out of the top and it won't sound as the sound engineer intended when they created the mix.

FYI - I contacted Denon support about this the other day and they weren't aware of this limitation so they are looking into it and will get back to me.

 

[Golfx]

Thanks @j_garcia - I agree with you that some of this is not clear from the manual or specifications. It's unrealistic to purchase all of these receivers to figure out what works and what doesn't. Before this post, I was trying (and failing) to go by the manuals and specifications to figure out what actually works, which is time consuming.

You have a nice unit, but I'm only looking at receivers with a combined pre-amp and amp that support no more than 7.2 channels since I assumed I would find one of them that would do the job and reduce the overall cost. Based on the pattern I'm seeing (you might be seeing the same); maybe the key is finding one that has dedicated height terminals.

You are correct that my Denon X-4500H has dedicated height terminals. When setting up my system for 5.1.4 (which works perfectly well), I noticed that the heights can't be enabled without also enabling the surrounds. You could be right that it's possible I missed something, but I'm limited by the UI and there are limitations for the speaker configurations.

I'm pretty sure the salespeople at Crutchfield (or any store) are NOT going to know this level of detail about these receivers unless they have actually set them up in a 3.1.2 configuration. I guess thought I would have better luck on this forum by chatting with people that have a similar configuration.

That is just the problem—I am pretty sure no one has this configuration because they would want surround LR before they would want Atmos. You are pretty sure about what you want—So why ask us?

 

[isolar8001]

That is just the problem—I am pretty sure no one has this configuration because they would want surround LR before they would want Atmos. You are pretty sure about what you want—So why ask us?

Its that Atmos bug, im tellin ya.
Just gotta say they have it. No matter how bad it sounds.

 

[Trebdp83]

The "No" only applies to the Surround Back speakers and NOT to the Height speakers when the speaker terminals are used for Height speakers after reassignment.

The Surround Back speaker terminals can actually be used for Surround Back speakers, Height speakers or Zone 2 speakers depending on the amp and speaker assignments.

When NOT using Surround speakers, only the Surround Dolby speakers are off the table regarding Height speakers because they would reside on top of the Surround speakers.

Using a 3.1.2 configuration, meaning NO Surround or Surround Back speakers, The Front Height, Top Front, Top Middle and Front Dolby speakers are all selectable for the corresponding Height speakers.

This is also the case with my Onkyo as I mentioned but I also have the option of Top Rear Height speakers. It’ll work, but it is not the optimal configuration for Dolby Atmos or DTS:X. Hey, we work with what we’ve got until we just have to scratch that itch.

 

[isolar8001]

Might help if the OP would make a diagram of where these in ceiling speakers are going.
If they are above the seating position, they should just be made regular surrounds.

Atmos needs to be done right to be effective...very few who have/use it aren't doing it right even in a large room.
(it's good for a giggle every three days when you hear something from the ceiling though)

A 3.1.2 setup would steer effects to the front channels and leave very little for the heights.
Much ado for nothing, and 5.1 would sound a hell of a lot better.
The Virtualizer in all of these AVR's does a nice job of redirecting Atmos effects to surrounds.

 

[j_garcia]

Might help if the OP would make a diagram of where these in ceiling speakers are going, and how big this room is.
If they are above the seating position, they should just be made regular surrounds.

Atmos needs to be done right to be effective...very few who have/use it aren't doing it right even in a large room.
(it's good for a giggle every three days when you hear something from the ceiling though)

A 3.1.2 setup would steer effects to the front channels and leave very little for the heights.
Much ado for nothing, and 5.1 would sound a hell of a lot better.
The Virtualizer in all of these AVR's does a nice job of redirecting Atmos effects to surrounds.

When using only 2 heights, they receive all of the height info, so the spaciousness would still improve. I mentioned though, depending on the room, this might not be a benefit. If the config allows it, I agree, side surrounds even in ceiling in a 5.1 config might be better, or just go 3.1. With the right placement, they could be used either way.

 

[Trebdp83]

If Dolby didn't want anybody using a 3.1.2 configuration at all, believe it when I say that they would not allow it at all. Do NOT assign a ceiling speaker as anything but a Height speaker. If Surround speakers cannot be at ear level, be them towers, bookshelf speakers, satellite speakers or actual in-wall speakers, do NOT assign them.

After tinkering with it, even when using Height Speakers in a 3.1.2 setup, you really do want to have the Speaker Virtualizer ON. It isn't just for those without Height speakers. It is useful whenever you come up short of 5.1.2. Configure it for 5.1.2 and it does nothing. Go 3.1.2 or 5.1 and it does what it can to simulate a 5.1.2 configuration. Results will vary of course.

 

[j_garcia]

Back in the days when 7.1 was new, my friend had a huge open floorplan. He did in ceiling surrounds, placed properly, Two along side the LP and two behind. It worked surprisingly well. Not ideal, but was what he had to work with. Given a choice, it is not what I would recommend obviously.

 

[Trebdp83]

Many did have in-ceiling speakers back then for ALL channels as many homes were being built with them. It was never ok but worked. But, it is an absolute no no with new object based processing and up mixing these days. Dolby Atmos and DTS:X processing as well as the Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X up mixers are not like the old Dolby and DTS channel based up mixers. Any speaker that cannot be placed accordingly or even get in the ball park of optimal placement should just be left out. Of course, a controlling c#%nt of a wife that cares nothing for proper speaker placement and forces a crippled configuration should just be thrown out.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I'm looking for a receiver that supports overheads above the seated position as per the Dolby 3.1.2 overhead spec. This will help when the metadata has enabled positional (or even traditional speaker) audio channels to ensure the correct sounds are coming out of the correct locations.

You will still have positional data, but it’s still just phantom imaging for the most part. So you won’t have a bubble anyway. It will be front centric. IMO this is much ado about nothing. 2.x or 3.x would be just as well.

 

[TLS Guy]

We are wasting a lot of time and space on nonsense.

The basic issue is that the OP has a lousy awful plan.

We get these again and again.

Next a sound bar is NOT a center speaker and can not be used as such.

This room is either a 2.1 or 2.2, or 3,1 or 3.2 and nothing else. Any other wants or suggestions are pure nonsense.

 

[lovinthehd]

We are wasting a lot of time and space on nonsense.

The basic issue is that the OP has a lousy awful plan.

We get these again and again.

Next a sound bar is NOT a center speaker and can not be used as such.

This room is either a 2.1 or 2.2, or 3,1 or 3.2 and nothing else. Any other wants or suggestions are pure nonsense.

There is a post about a soundbar that with an adapter can be used as a single center from an avr's pre-out from the avr. I think that's a good step in the direction of those who can't deal with their significant other except in surrender mode.....

 

[Trebdp83]

@03_zip.demo had some very specific questions concerning a certain AVR. I tried to answer them without insult. For that, I’ll defer to the more self absorbed and self righteous among us.

Perhaps this thread, like so many others, will end up being stuffed full with pics of a certain home in which the supreme examples of various sound systems are on display.