Least worst option for connecting existing speakers wireless for rear surround

[Linwood]

Might want to review this article https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/center-channel-designs-1

Ah... looks very on point, let me study a bit. THanks.

I still prefer a center even though most of the time I'm on my own. What are you doing for sub?

Sub is a Klipsch SW-350. Not great, but it has plenty of volume in that room (for my old ears that don't expect the walls to shake).

If that's the second question you're referring to, I'd rather have to food mains and a sub vs 3 upfront channels to start with.

I didn't intend to imply I lacked a sub. Unless what I have doesn't really count.

But I'm unclear why that needs to be a choice. I was going to get a center regardless. It's not "2 good speakers" or "3 poor speakers". It is more "3 speakers costing $2850 vs 3 speakers costing $1949 can I really tell the difference in that awful room and my old ears'. I know that's hard to answer when you don't know me and can't sit in the room (though @TLS Guy is pretty emphatic on the "yes").

I don't really have a budget in mind - despite asking about $2000. This is more about not wanting to pay for quality beyond the point that I can actually tell the difference, complicated by a poor room and wiring challenges. Which of course makes this very hard to answer. But I suspect you all have friends who are far, far from being Audiophiles.

It's kind of like wine. I have a several friends who are wine snobs in the extreme. And I like wine. But I'm happy with a lot of $10 wines, and find anything over about $30 is just wasted on me -- I may like the $100 bottle of wine they pull out, but not any better than a good $30 bottle, and maybe even a $12 one. Don't misunderstand, there are a LOT of bad wines under $30. And probably fewer bad wines at $100. But to me a good $30 and a good $100 bottle are not that different. I know this from decades of dining, business dinners, friends wine choices, etc. But I also know some people REALLY know the difference (a good friend is a certified sommelier), I believe it, like I believe others can really hear a significant difference in high end gear. But that won't be me in either case.

I just don't want to pay $100 for the bottle of wine speaker equivalent if I'll be happy at $30. But I do want to be happy.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ah... looks very on point, let me study a bit. THanks.



Sub is a Klipsch SW-350. Not great, but it has plenty of volume in that room (for my old ears that don't expect the walls to shake).



I didn't intend to imply I lacked a sub. Unless what I have doesn't really count.

But I'm unclear why that needs to be a choice. I was going to get a center regardless. It's not "2 good speakers" or "3 poor speakers". It is more "3 speakers costing $2850 vs 3 speakers costing $1949 can I really tell the difference in that awful room and my old ears'. I know that's hard to answer when you don't know me and can't sit in the room (though @TLS Guy is pretty emphatic on the "yes").

I don't really have a budget in mind - despite asking about $2000. This is more about not wanting to pay for quality beyond the point that I can actually tell the difference, complicated by a poor room and wiring challenges. Which of course makes this very hard to answer. But I suspect you all have friends who are far, far from being Audiophiles.

It's kind of like wine. I have a several friends who are wine snobs in the extreme. And I like wine. But I'm happy with a lot of $10 wines, and find anything over about $30 is just wasted on me -- I may like the $100 bottle of wine they pull out, but not any better than a good $30 bottle, and maybe even a $12 one. Don't misunderstand, there are a LOT of bad wines under $30. And probably fewer bad wines at $100. But to me a good $30 and a good $100 bottle are not that different. I know this from decades of dining, business dinners, friends wine choices, etc. But I also know some people REALLY know the difference (a good friend is a certified sommelier), I believe it, like I believe others can really hear a significant difference in high end gear. But that won't be me in either case.

I just don't want to pay $100 for the bottle of wine speaker equivalent if I'll be happy at $30. But I do want to be happy.

Ah, but it is very hard to predict/judge the $ to your preference in speaker sound for anyone but you. There are some very well priced speakers people prefer to much more expensive speakers. Some speakers are grossly overpriced too. Stick to measurements/performance is my recommendation. Get the best bang for the buck for sure....what I found good (no longer available) might not be something you like.....

The Klipsch SW350 is okay, but there are better subs and I generally want multiple of the same sub for best results, especially for multiple seats. I saw your comment after the $2000 budget was questioned and it generally I'd say a couple hundred bucks isn't a great big deal, depends on deals/speakers/room/amp needs to accommodate, etc. I'm basically a thrifty audio guy fwiw.

 

[ski2xblack]

Don't give much credence to Crutchfield ratings.

Best, most reliable way to evaluate are technical reviews that @shadyJ does here, or Klippel nfs reviews as done by Erin (Erins audio corner) and Amir (at ASR). They won't tell you if you'll like em, but will tell you what to rule out.

Before you splurge on something, consider your use. Unless you want to disturb the neighbors, maybe you don't need something as over the top as the Arendals (you should still enter the drawing, though, those would rock your world). If more sane listening levels will be the norm in your house, that opens the options for otherwise great speakers that have less dynamic range, e.g. the KEF R3 Meta I mentioned. There are quite a few options in that direction, some of which might leave room in the budget for a sub (thinking of the Ascilab speakers, which sport textbook perfect measurements, I mean perfect, their only limits are that they're not high spl bangers...f6b are less than $900/pair, f6b s only $725...high passed-to ameliorate their limits- and paired with a pair of RSL 10s subs for $500 each, voila, a seriously great two channel rig).

 

[Kingnoob]

Don't give much credence to Crutchfield ratings.

Best, most reliable way to evaluate are technical reviews that @shadyJ does here, or Klippel nfs reviews as done by Erin (Erins audio corner) and Amir (at ASR). They won't tell you if you'll like em, but will tell you what to rule out.

Before you splurge on something, consider your use. Unless you want to disturb the neighbors, maybe you don't need something as over the top as the Arendals (you should still enter the drawing, though, those would rock your world). If more sane listening levels will be the norm in your house, that opens the options for otherwise great speakers that have less dynamic range, e.g. the KEF R3 Meta I mentioned. There are quite a few options in that direction, some of which might leave room in the budget for a sub (thinking of the Ascilab speakers, which sport textbook perfect measurements, I mean perfect, their only limits are that they're not high spl bangers...f6b are less than $900/pair, f6b s only $725...high passed-to ameliorate their limits- and paired with a pair of RSL 10s subs for $500 each, voila, a seriously great two channel rig).

Is it true the uni q drivers can blow if you go to reference level too long or is that a myth ? Maybe this is wrong or untrue ? There centers look interesting if mine isn’t enough if I ever use it again. Running phantom now with Klipsch .

 

[ski2xblack]

Any driver will blow if you abuse it.

That's why knowing what your use case is, how loud you want it, the listening distances involved, will help you narrow down the choices to products that will meet or exceed your requirements, so you won't blow anything up.

 

[Kingnoob]

Any driver will blow if you abuse it.

That's why knowing what your use case is, how loud you want it, the listening distances involved, will help you narrow down the choices to products that will meet or exceed your requirements, so you won't blow anything up.

Yeah phone spl meters are questionable, but I don’t have an actual stand alone one yet. I opened this app up watching basketball while volume was not high at all . Still had over 94db peaks . Not that I’ll be able to buy anything anytime soon. Should had gotten less better speakers then more cheap ones.

 

[ski2xblack]

Hey, @Linwood in the spirit of finding that inexpensive bottle of wine that truly satisfies, here is Erin's review of the approx. $1200 AsciLab speaker. He makes explicit comparisons to other speakers mentioned in this thread, KEF and Arendal. I think this may help all the tetris pieces we have mentioned fall into place for your understanding. (And if I were in the market for speakers for my value conscious, normie modest listening levels, these would be at the top of the list.)

 

[everettT]

Hey, @Linwood in the spirit of finding that inexpensive bottle of wine that truly satisfies, here is Erin's review of the approx. $1200 AsciLab speaker. He makes explicit comparisons to other speakers mentioned in this thread, KEF and Arendal. I think this may help all the tetris pieces we have mentioned fall into place for your understanding. (And if I were in the market for speakers for my value conscious, normie modest listening levels, these would be at the top of the list.)

Their speakers have a textbook response and are very room friendly and their directivity control is very good, especially, for a passive speaker. They take EQ well, so tailoring the sound shouldn't be an issue if one wants a change.

 

[Linwood]

FWIW I called Crutchfield and talked to someone who seemed very knowledgeable for over an hour.

They recommended almost exactly what @TLS Guy did, the KEF's, though they thought the Q11 was a better idea (but buy a new AVR).

He also said the SVS would not have nearly a wide enough... shoot, forgot the term... dispersion? for that room. Quote "They would sound terrific sitting on the sofa, and pretty bad on those chairs".

His Plan B was Elac DF63's, which is about the price of the SVS's, but he said was better for the wide, short shallow room. Reviews I've read were mixed though.

I'm leaning strongly toward just blowing my kid's inheritance on the KEF's, but have a question about a comment in a review someone named Erin posted (who is apparently well known). He said:

"This speaker sounds fantastic but does need the benefit of sidewalls to provide a more overall neutral tonality. If these are used in a room where there are no sidewalls then they likely will sound a bit too "dark" thanks to their intended design. They also work well placed against the wall behind the speakers as they are designed to get some additional boundary gain."

The last sentence is good as going near the wall saves space, but the first two sentences are a problem as my side walls are way, way away (not measuring but maybe 15' on one side and 25' on the other from the centerline).
He actually concludes "Should look at other options" if no sidewalls.

Should I worry about that or assume an EQ/Dirac/etc can adjust?

 

[ski2xblack]

If wider dispersion is important to you, another high value option would be the Ascend Sierra monitors. They're similar to the Ascilabs (above average measurements), but throw a wider pattern.

Heck, with the lateral orientation and extreme distance to side walls, a really wide dispersion speaker like the Phil BMR monitors would work. Those have almost 180 degrees of smooth, even coverage.

Due to the lateral orientation, the best spots to listen will be the couch, regardless of speaker directivity. The rest of the room will get sound, but don't expect stereographic trickery out of the primary listening area. The chairs off to the right, nearer the camera, might get a more solid center image if you go with the more narrow pattern speakers oriented cross fired for time-intensity trading, if you skip a center channel speaker.

So, yeah, to echo what TLS said much earlier, the layout is compromised. If you don't reorient everything, you have to live within those constraints.

 

[Linwood]

I don't need 180 degrees, and looking at it, when watching movies I could remove the footstools and pull the black chairs in (photo early in the thread) so that the worst two seats are in line with the L and R speaker, not outside.

And I'm taking to heart the recommendation on the center speaker being very good with LEF.

Need to think a bit more, but I'm leaning toward just pulling the trigger on the KEF's. The Crutchfield guy was really persuasive (and yes, I'm sure he makes more money on them, but I'm kind of a cynic about sales people and he was persuasive).

The nice thing with them is that I can just box it up and return it if it's not good. But any last minute advice welcomed.

 

[ski2xblack]

Salesman is going to salesman. What's important is that you get the right tools for the job at a fair price. The center channel argument is strongly in KEF's favor, and they're very good speakers. The remaining questions are which KEFs, considering factors like low impedance of the Q11 for example. Once you figure that out, buy 'em with confidence and don't sweat it afterwards.

 

[Linwood]

OK, pulled the trigger.

No one here is likely to understand, but I was the guy that bought a MyT when what he needed was an 1100 and ended up selling the MyT and buying the 1100 after months of frustration. And if you do understand, then you also understand! Buy once, cry once.

Now I think I'll go tear apart the living room and see how hard it would be to run power from an outlet along that wall to the bay window. Clean up some wires along that wall if I can. And keep me from watching for UPS way too early.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't need 180 degrees, and looking at it, when watching movies I could remove the footstools and pull the black chairs in (photo early in the thread) so that the worst two seats are in line with the L and R speaker, not outside.

And I'm taking to heart the recommendation on the center speaker being very good with LEF.

Need to think a bit more, but I'm leaning toward just pulling the trigger on the KEF's. The Crutchfield guy was really persuasive (and yes, I'm sure he makes more money on them, but I'm kind of a cynic about sales people and he was persuasive).

The nice thing with them is that I can just box it up and return it if it's not good. But any last minute advice welcomed.

The reason I mentioned the KEF speakers is because they are a known quantity to me. The bass was good and actually I preferred them without the sub that was available. The bass was excellent and of good quality. One disc I played was a CD that I recorded, produced and edited the master that was sent for CD manufacture. It was a trumpet and organ disc. The organ being a very fine three manual tracker organ from the Casavant organ company. I thought the speakers did a very fine job. I am not often impressed with commercial speakers.
I hope Squishman joins in as he obviously has listened to them a lot longer than I have.

I don't think you would have to buy a center speaker, right away, if at all. But if you do need a center then the KEF centers with the coaxial driver will partner well, but also a coaxial driver has significant advantages when part of a center speaker. Coaxial drivers have significance advantages when it come to natural and intelligible speech. The problem is that good coaxial drivers are far and few between. KEF have a long history with them.

 

[ski2xblack]

Motorcycle reference?

Which KEFs did you pick? (Regardless, you're in for a treat, going from Klipsch quintets to bona fide speakers will be a huge step up.)

 

[Linwood]

I did get the center. This is what I ordered:

991Q6MWA KEF Q6 Meta Walnut each center channel speaker
991Q1MWA KEF Q1 Meta Walnut pair Bookshelf Speakers (Walnut)
991Q11MWA KEF Q11 Meta Walnut each Floorstanding speaker (Walnut)
580TXRZ50 Onkyo TX-RZ50 Dolby Atmos home theater receiver
389ERSSL1B ErgoAV Bookshelf Speaker Stand 26" Tall

The crutchfield guy was pretty emphatic that my current amp could not drive these, and quite doutful that the RZ30 could. Also that the Q11 (with adequate power) on sale at the same price was a better choice than the Q7.

Motorcycle reference?

Not motorcycle. Less dangerous (though I did use to ride, but a LONG time ago when I was immortal (i.e. younger).

One guess down.