Dynamic Range 20-20K

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A

Anglofun

Audioholic
Gents

Having a listen recently and something I have noticed over the years, is the difficulty in getting a dynamic range across the frequency response. Atleast this perception is with a subjective listening session. I'd be curious if there was a way to measure this out.

Just to be more clear hear, Horns or at the very least high efficient drivers are the most dynamic. They come with their issues and flaws but dynamically, everything else dwarfs in comparison to me. Do some compress more than others? Yes, just like other lower efficiency drivers but when you have this kind of headroom, it is still quite magical.

Presently in my main system, I have open baffles that have an overall eff overal 103 db's. BUT at what frequency? I have also noticed that since adding some SVS subs to do part of the 1st octave and even before the first octave (17hz and up)they fill in the frequency response but dynamically and speed wise they aren't keeping up with the other drivers.

Is there room to converse on this subject to maybe play around for a sort of a solution lol?

I can post pics, but for those wondering,

SVS Pb200pro > Supravox exc 400 > EV SP15A > Fountek pro5i (rear firing EV Horn)

The Supravox

Supravox

400-2000 EXC Bass speaker
A loudspeaker of serious audiophile quality: the 400-2000 EXC offers very high quality of response (speed and broadband) because it is built around the same membrane as the 400-2000.
Its advantage remains the possibility of adjusting these parameters thanks to a powerful electromagnetic engine. Adaptable therefore to many speakers, it requires outdoor power supply (ideal from 9 to 15V for 3A).
For audiophters in search of the absolute, the 400-2000 EXC is available in silver coil (99.99%).
Specifications 400-2000 EXC
Sensitivity 2.83 V/1m 96-98 dB Power Supply 9-15 Volts DC.
Magnetic field 0 to 1.6 pokemon pinata bandwidth 23 to 4 kHz
Impedance 8 ohms Diameter HP 404mm
Power max. RMS 120W Thickness bowl Alu 10mm
Weight 10.7 kg Distance fixing holes 382mm
Suspension Canvas Diameter drill speaker 358mm
Resonance frequency 22Hz HP depth 215mm
Excursion linear 10mm Sd 855 cm²
FS MMS CMS re DC
22 Hz 66 g 0.5 6.5
Power supply9v12v15v
Vas686686681
Qts0.29820.21570.1805
Qe0.3070.2200.184
Qm9.45499.32889.1932
Bl13.5315.9817.53
SPL ref95.9197.3598.16
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
When it comes to subs and low bass frequencies, the dynamics, impulse response, decay times can be measured with REW and such.

The subjective sensation of "speed" is often a case of "less is more", with a more rolled off response down low resulting in a subjectively more tight, seemingly faster impression. A system that favors deeper, more linear extension may seem better on paper, but perhaps paradoxically will seem slower to the ear.

If I were you, I would play around with sub calibration/eq to try and get more satisfying results. Those old school coaxial mains may give your SVS subs a run for their money in the dynamics department, presenting a dynamic range mismatch, but really, you shouldn't be intentionally assaulting your hearing with rock concert spls. At normal domestic listening levels you should have plenty of wiggle room to dial it all in.
 
Last edited:
A

Anglofun

Audioholic
ski2xblack said:
When it comes to subs and low bass frequencies, the dynamics, impulse response, decay times can be measured with REW and such.

The subjective sensation of "speed" is often a case of "less is more", with a more rolled off response down low resulting in a subjectively more tight, seemingly faster impression. A system that favors deeper, more linear extension may seem better on paper, but perhaps paradoxically will seem slower to the ear.

If I were you, I would play around with sub calibration/eq to try and get more satisfying results. Those old school coaxial mains may give your SVS subs a run for their money in the dynamics department, presenting a dynamic range mismatch, but really, you shouldn't be intentionally assaulting your hearing with rock concert spls. At normal domestic listening levels you should have plenty of wiggle room to dial it all in.
Click to expand...
Maybe my wording is wrong or too shallow. Not easy to fully explain this, so I will do a 2nd attempt.

If there was a separate race where I would have the sub do its response, then the Supravox, then the EV and lastly the tweeter, the dynamic range of each driver fulfilling its segment of FR doesn't react in the same way. I guess there are compression factors happening in different ranges that thins out the driver's capability but above and beyond those problems, the dynamic range on the top end (being ev > Fountek) kicks up way more than the SVS. The supravox is closer but is lagging also a bit. Clear measurements are needed indeed but then what exactly can be done?
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Got it...disparate driver sensitivities in a multi way speaker that's a mish mash of direct radiators and horns. The least sensitive drivers will be the limiting factor, with the rest needing to be padded down appropriately.

This seems like quite the undertaking. I hope that in addition to REW, you also have DATS, and comprehensive knowledge of Vance Dickeson's book. Passive? Active? Throw in a bucket of parts for passive networks or a capable active crossover.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
Anglofun said:
Gents

Having a listen recently and something I have noticed over the years, is the difficulty in getting a dynamic range across the frequency response. Atleast this perception is with a subjective listening session. I'd be curious if there was a way to measure this out.

Just to be more clear hear, Horns or at the very least high efficient drivers are the most dynamic. They come with their issues and flaws but dynamically, everything else dwarfs in comparison to me. Do some compress more than others? Yes, just like other lower efficiency drivers but when you have this kind of headroom, it is still quite magical.

Presently in my main system, I have open baffles that have an overall eff overal 103 db's. BUT at what frequency? I have also noticed that since adding some SVS subs to do part of the 1st octave and even before the first octave (17hz and up)they fill in the frequency response but dynamically and speed wise they aren't keeping up with the other drivers.

Is there room to converse on this subject to maybe play around for a sort of a solution lol?

I can post pics, but for those wondering,

SVS Pb200pro > Supravox exc 400 > EV SP15A > Fountek pro5i (rear firing EV Horn)

The Supravox

Supravox

400-2000 EXC Bass speaker
A loudspeaker of serious audiophile quality: the 400-2000 EXC offers very high quality of response (speed and broadband) because it is built around the same membrane as the 400-2000.
Its advantage remains the possibility of adjusting these parameters thanks to a powerful electromagnetic engine. Adaptable therefore to many speakers, it requires outdoor power supply (ideal from 9 to 15V for 3A).
For audiophters in search of the absolute, the 400-2000 EXC is available in silver coil (99.99%).
Specifications 400-2000 EXC
Sensitivity 2.83 V/1m 96-98 dB Power Supply 9-15 Volts DC.
Magnetic field 0 to 1.6 pokemon pinata bandwidth 23 to 4 kHz
Impedance 8 ohms Diameter HP 404mm
Power max. RMS 120W Thickness bowl Alu 10mm
Weight 10.7 kg Distance fixing holes 382mm
Suspension Canvas Diameter drill speaker 358mm
Resonance frequency 22Hz HP depth 215mm
Excursion linear 10mm Sd 855 cm²
FS MMS CMS re DC
22 Hz 66 g 0.5 6.5
Power supply9v12v15v
Vas686686681
Qts0.29820.21570.1805
Qe0.3070.2200.184
Qm9.45499.32889.1932
Bl13.5315.9817.53
SPL ref95.9197.3598.16
Click to expand...
Pics would help. Are these diy speakers?
 
A

Anglofun

Audioholic
ski2xblack said:
Got it...disparate driver sensitivities in a multi way speaker that's a mish mash of direct radiators and horns. The least sensitive drivers will be the limiting factor, with the rest needing to be padded down appropriately.

This seems like quite the undertaking. I hope that in addition to REW, you also have DATS, and comprehensive knowledge of Vance Dickeson's book. Passive? Active? Throw in a bucket of parts for passive networks or a capable active crossover.
Click to expand...
Ahhh what rewording can do! I have an active Bryston xover. DSP from my Yamaha receiver a4a and Yamaha PX3 amplifier for my Supravox with active PEQ, phase etc.

Not aware, Vance Dickenson? Will look this up
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Anglofun said:
Gents

Having a listen recently and something I have noticed over the years, is the difficulty in getting a dynamic range across the frequency response. Atleast this perception is with a subjective listening session. I'd be curious if there was a way to measure this out.
Click to expand...
Just use REW to measure FR 20-20000Hz at different levels such as from 60 dB at your seat, to say 85 dB, or higher if you wear adequate hearing protection and not have no risk of damaging your speakers, and/or amps.
 
A

Anglofun

Audioholic
PENG said:
Just use REW to measure FR 20-20000Hz at different levels such as from 60 dB at your seat, to say 85 dB, or higher if you wear adequate hearing protection and not have no risk of damaging your speakers, and/or amps.
Click to expand...
Makes perfect sense. How about measuring the speed in which it takes to get there?
 
A

Anglofun

Audioholic
lovinthehd said:
Perhaps an active crossover and measurement gear that can be accessed/ adjusted via network access.....what is your crossover particularly? What do you mean by "speed"?
Click to expand...
This is what I have for an xover on my EV's and Fountek tweeter. https://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-10b-electronic-crossover 10B Bryston active xover.

On the woofer from Supravox it is the PX3 from Yamaha.

You asked also what do I mean by speed? I mean the time it takes to reach its dynamic range (each driver)

Network access no problem there.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Anglofun said:
This is what I have for an xover on my EV's and Fountek tweeter. https://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-10b-electronic-crossover 10B Bryston active xover.

On the woofer from Supravox it is the PX3 from Yamaha.

You asked also what do I mean by speed? I mean the time it takes to reach its dynamic range (each driver)

Network access no problem there.
Click to expand...
Do either of those devices have the ability for remote control via network? It doesn't appear so to me.

Don't understand "time it takes to reach its dynamic range" at all.
 
A

Anglofun

Audioholic
lovinthehd said:
Do either of those devices have the ability for remote control via network? It doesn't appear so to me.

Don't understand "time it takes to reach its dynamic range" at all.
Click to expand...
Well, I am there. so if adjustments are needed, I will do them live.

If we are talking about calibrating each driver to match the overall dynamic range, as in from the 17hz all the way to 20K, I think some of what I am hearing is that maybe they have the same dynamic range but because they are slower to get to the same level they seem less dynamic to the ear.

IOW's if you listen to a highly capable HORN as an example and compare the bass response of an enclosed woofer setup on the very same same speaker it doesn' keep up with horn.

I hope I am explaining this properly.
 
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