Yamaha R-N2000A Hi-Fi Receiver Official Review Page!

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I had an Onkyo 876 (and its later derivative the Integra DTR70.4) and I can vouch that they could and did drive 1.6ohm speakers very well indeed...
Which speaker has a nominal impedance of 1.6 ohms?
 
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dlaloum

Senior Audioholic
Which speaker has a nominal impedance of 1.6 ohms?
Not nominal - their nominal impedance is 4 ohm, their minimum impedance is 1.63 ohm - Gallo Nucleus Reference 3.2 and Gallo Nucleus AV center.

From past experience, they do not sound great with some amps...most recent experience was with the Integra DRX3.4 AVR... but using the Integra as an AVP through amps that handle the speakers well, made them sing as they should. The old Onkyo 876, Integra DTR70.4 both handled the speakers just fine, without external amp assistance - other amps that handled these speakers fine included Quad 606, 707, Crown XLS2500.

Also of note - the low impedance minimum is on the tweeter, not as with some designs, at the bass end - and if the amp doesn't handle it well, it is the midrange that gets muddled.
Yes it is an unusual speaker design.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Not nominal - their nominal impedance is 4 ohm, their minimum impedance is 1.63 ohm - Gallo Nucleus Reference 3.2 and Gallo Nucleus AV center.
According to the manual, the nominal impedance is 8 ohms. It didn’t mention the minimum impedance.


But even if the actual measurements show a “minimum impedance” of 1.6, that’s just a single point in the frequency response, usually in the Bass region.

A long time ago I had some DefTech speakers (BP7000SC Fronts, BP7001SC Surround, CLR3000 Center) that Home Theater Magazine measured and the “minimum impedance” was like 1.9. Yet I used a $500 50WPC 5.1 AVR to power these 5 speakers for months at loud volume.

So “minimum impedance” doesn’t necessarily mean much, especially if that single point is in the bass region that subwoofers can play.

@PENG might be able to explain better why my cheap $500 50WPC AVR could power these speakers I owned that had low “minimum impedance” in the bass region.
 
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dlaloum

Senior Audioholic
According to the manual, the nominal impedance is 8 ohms. It didn’t mention the minimum impedance.


But even if the actual measurements show a “minimum impedance” of 1.6, that’s just a single point in the frequency response, usually in the Bass region.

A long time ago I had some DefTech speakers (BP7000SC Fronts, BP7001SC Surround, CLR3000 Center) that Home Theater Magazine measured and the “minimum impedance” was like 1.9. Yet I used a $500 50WPC 5.1 AVR to power these 5 speakers for months at loud volume.

So “minimum impedance” doesn’t necessarily mean much, especially if that single point is in the bass region that subwoofers can play.

@PENG might be able to explain better why my cheap $500 50WPC AVR could power these speakers I owned that had low “minimum impedance” in the bass region.
Now I will have to work out where was the review that measured the impedance....
 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
Your comment was that the Anthem seems to have more power than the Yamaha.

My comment is that the Yamaha isn’t about having or competing for more watts.

Even AVR’s like the Yamaha RX-A3080 can output about 300 Watts x 2CH into 4 ohms. The Denon X6800 AVR can output 250 Watts x 2CH into 4 ohms.

There are other receivers with more power.

So my point is, this Yamaha is not about competing for more power.
Not claiming it is, simply an observation of one unit vs the other. The Yamaha does have some room correction, I'm assuming the ARC genesis in the Anthem the more sophisticated of the two? Both have no doubt excellent DACs. Anthem does not stream, so that's one for the Yamaha. My Q/point was, what, if anything, accounts for the 1k difference in price? I didn't compare them on other specs like SNR, THD, etc.

One is modern industrial look, one is very retro. Both appeal to me. I own the Anthem currently. It's very configurable machine I must say.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I had an Onkyo 876 (and its later derivative the Integra DTR70.4) and I can vouch that they could and did drive 1.6ohm speakers very well indeed...

However I've seen no indications that the current X3800/X4800 models have the type of capabilities that the much lauded AVR3805 had... I believe the current equivalent to the 3805 is probably the 6800....
For the nth time, any such AVR can drive 1.6 ohm speakers, it is not a black and while thing as it depends on the impedance and phase angle vs frequency, sensitivity across the audio ban, seating distance, and your required spl.

Questions for you:
- why you keep making generalized statement such as xyz amp can drive 1.6, 2, 3, 4 ohm load?
- if I my seating distance if 2 meters, speaker dip to 1.5 ohm but only at 150 and 200 Hz, sensitivity is 92 dB/2.83V/m, and the loudest spl I ever listen to is 90 dB peak, then why can't the 3805 drive my speaker?

With due respect, repeating your kind of general statement does not make it true, and it might confuse people who actually don't need to spend money on another amp and ended up spending it on one when they could have spent money on something that counts in terms of sound quality.

I would strongly recommend a science based forum such as this, to avoid making generalized statement that could well mislead other members (unintentionally and/or unknowingly obviously) and/or help create/spread/sustain audio myths and/or misconceptions that we already have no shortages of in this hobby.

Sorry about being critical, you have been among the few that I know are very knowledgeable and have been offering helpful advices to others including me, just wish you could avoid generalizing, sometime.

If I am wrong in what I am saying about the amps vs impedance, phase angles, sensitivity, distance, required spl relationship, please do enlighten me, with facts and figures, or other objective views (link would be great). To avoid being sidetracked, I would avoid the effects of "protective schemes" and any subjective reviews for the time being. For example, if an amp has protective scheme that could sense load impedance dropping below certain limits, would actually switch to some sort of "limp mode" (or even shutdown right away) reported on forums such as ASR, on perhaps one of Onkyo's, then of course all bets are off.

Also, your reporting of the issue with your 1.6 ohm dip speaker that you posted the curves were a specific one that I believe something else was causing it, not just the current demand that you got fixated on, and on that one, I have said enough so we agreed to disagree on that one, though I am sure if I were there, I would most likely be able to discover why a seemingly more capable amp could not do it while you other seemingly weaker amp could do it under the specified conditions, and no, I am sure both amps had the current capabilities under those conditions. Again, not going to repeat things we stated in that thread, suffice to agree to disagree on that one. I am mentioning it now only because that example is too peculiar and too much unknown, for it to be used and example to support claims made.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
According to the manual, the nominal impedance is 8 ohms. It didn’t mention the minimum impedance.


But even if the actual measurements show a “minimum impedance” of 1.6, that’s just a single point in the frequency response, usually in the Bass region.

A long time ago I had some DefTech speakers (BP7000SC Fronts, BP7001SC Surround, CLR3000 Center) that Home Theater Magazine measured and the “minimum impedance” was like 1.9. Yet I used a $500 50WPC 5.1 AVR to power these 5 speakers for months at loud volume.

So “minimum impedance” doesn’t necessarily mean much, especially if that single point is in the bass region that subwoofers can play.

@PENG might be able to explain better why my cheap $500 50WPC AVR could power these speakers I owned that had low “minimum impedance” in the bass region.
I have done so with him more than once, but I would try again as to me he is a very helpful person on forums so I am not ready to give up on convincing him to seriously trust the basic electrical theories and principle that apply to audio amplifiers that are nowhere near rocket science.:D Any funnier behavior of such devices when use with conventional loudspeakers can be explained, measured and verified on the bench. My <$100 Fosi chip amp can drive just about any speakers I have in my house, and sound the same as amps that weigh 50X or more and cost 50X more.., no mystery there, just need to dig dip into the theories sometimes.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Not claiming it is, simply an observation of one unit vs the other. The Yamaha does have some room correction, I'm assuming the ARC genesis in the Anthem the more sophisticated of the two? Both have no doubt excellent DACs. Anthem does not stream, so that's one for the Yamaha. My Q/point was, what, if anything, accounts for the 1k difference in price? I didn't compare them on other specs like SNR, THD, etc.

One is modern industrial look, one is very retro. Both appeal to me. I own the Anthem currently. It's very configurable machine I must say.
Do you own the Statement integrated amp? Or comparing the Yamaha RX-A3080 that ADTG mentioned, with an Anthem AVR?

As far as ARC G vs YPAO R.S.C (something like that), I don't know which one is more sophisticated and I have not used YPAO for years. I do know ARC G very well and you already know my view based on my experience on that one.:) Suffice to say, as you now, even Matthew seemed to have realized it's drawbacks that I had previously mentioned. I do love my AVM70 though, they seem to have fixed 99% if not all of the bugs (include the one the device might not be responsible for) that I know of.
 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
Do you own the Statement integrated amp? Or comparing the Yamaha RX-A3080 that ADTG mentioned, with an Anthem AVR?

As far as ARC G vs YPAO R.S.C (something like that), I don't know which one is more sophisticated and I have not used YPAO for years. I do know ARC G very well and you already know my view based on my experience on that one.:) Suffice to say, as you now, even Matthew seemed to have realized it's drawbacks that I had previously mentioned. I do love my AVM70 though, they seem to have fixed 99% if not all of the bugs (include the one the device might not be responsible for) that I know of.
Per above, yes. It's an impressive, albeit pricey, unit. That the Yamaha, clearly well engineered and built like a tank, etc made in Japan, and approx 1K less $, peaked my interest. They could not be more different looks/approach wise.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Per above, yes. It's an impressive, albeit pricey, unit. That the Yamaha, clearly well engineered and built like a tank, etc made in Japan, and approx 1K less $, peaked my interest. They could not be more different looks/approach wise.
But if you already own that impressive Anthem amp, then............ you think you can sell the Anthem for more than what you paid for?:D Or you kust want to get another amp and will keep the Anthem amp?
 
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