Amber soundbar configuration

[Wuaysi]

Hello

I have an AMBEO Max soundbar paired with a REL HT1205 MKII sub.

I am trying to set it up and have done the following:

1. Set crossover to max on the REL sub per the AMBEO manual.
2. Set gain to 60% on the REL sub.
3. Ran the AMBEO sound calibration.
4. The sub can only go in one position unfortunately due to room aesthetics.

This is quite a large room, 6x6m with 6m ceilings. I fully expect not to get the greatest sound experience but to me the sub needs to be louder. I couldn't put a ported sub in there as I don't have the space (ironically lol).

1. What should I be setting the AMBEO soundbar sub gain to? From memory it goes from -12dB to 12dB (app not in front of me at the moment).
2. Is it safe to increase the gain on the REL sub to get more out of it? Is there a limit on what the gain should not exceed? I'm not to fussed if the sub lasts 5 years instead of 10 years, or 10 years instead of 15 years.
3. Am I doing anything else incorrectly?

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello

I have an AMBEO Max soundbar paired with a REL HT1205 MKII sub.

I am trying to set it up and have done the following:

1. Set crossover to max on the REL sub per the AMBEO manual.
2. Set gain to 60% on the REL sub.
3. Ran the AMBEO sound calibration.
4. The sub can only go in one position unfortunately due to room aesthetics.

This is quite a large room, 6x6m with 6m ceilings. I fully expect not to get the greatest sound experience but to me the sub needs to be louder. I couldn't put a ported sub in there as I don't have the space (ironically lol).

1. What should I be setting the AMBEO soundbar sub gain to? From memory it goes from -12dB to 12dB (app not in front of me at the moment).
2. Is it safe to increase the gain on the REL sub to get more out of it? Is there a limit on what the gain should not exceed? I'm not to fussed if the sub lasts 5 years instead of 10 years, or 10 years instead of 15 years.
3. Am I doing anything else incorrectly?

The first thing to try is to increase the volume to the sub.

This may not solve your issue. Soundbars are very Low-Fi contrpations with puny speakers and can not possibly produce good sound. So the sound bar will produce no heft at all.

Bass actually extends out way above sub range to at least 500 Hz.

So even under the best of circumstances there will be a significant gap between a sound bar and a sub.

I can't imagine you don't have room for decent speakers and subs in a room that size.

I never understand this aesthetic nonsense. Speakers do not detract from the aesthetic of a room any more than a couch or table. In fact many speakers look a lot better than most room furniture. There is so much interior design BS about this that it is enough to overload any sewage system. Done right, good sound systems do not detract from room aesthetics but can and should enhance it.

I know what does detract, and that is a puny soundbar stuck under a big screen TV is a large space. That looks and is stupid.

By the way, I think you mean Ambeo sound bar. Those a very expensive. You could have bought a decent system for that money. You pretty much flushed money down the toilet.

 

[lovinthehd]

For a best performing sub I certainly wouldn't choose Rel. However, you don't want the sub trim level in the soundbar to be -12 as that simply indicates you have gain on the sub set too high and need to lower it let alone raise it.

 

[privateeye]

Hello

I have an AMBEO Max soundbar paired with a REL HT1205 MKII sub.

I am trying to set it up and have done the following:

1. Set crossover to max on the REL sub per the AMBEO manual.
2. Set gain to 60% on the REL sub.
3. Ran the AMBEO sound calibration.
4. The sub can only go in one position unfortunately due to room aesthetics.

This is quite a large room, 6x6m with 6m ceilings. I fully expect not to get the greatest sound experience but to me the sub needs to be louder. I couldn't put a ported sub in there as I don't have the space (ironically lol).

1. What should I be setting the AMBEO soundbar sub gain to? From memory it goes from -12dB to 12dB (app not in front of me at the moment).
2. Is it safe to increase the gain on the REL sub to get more out of it? Is there a limit on what the gain should not exceed? I'm not to fussed if the sub lasts 5 years instead of 10 years, or 10 years instead of 15 years.
3. Am I doing anything else incorrectly?

It’s been a while since I last worked with an Ambeo (we used to sell them), but I can tell you a few things with confidence. First, the sound quality should be top-notch, and you should hear true surround sound—as if speakers were hidden in your walls, with the sound not seeming to come directly from the soundbar itself, assuming your room has no large openings. The bass response should also be impressive, even without a subwoofer, since the Ambeo can actually reach down to 30 Hz. If you’re not experiencing any of this, you might have a defective unit; quality control on the Ambeo can sometimes be hit or miss.

 

[TLS Guy]

It’s been a while since I last worked with an Ambeo (we used to sell them), but I can tell you a few things with confidence. First, the sound quality should be top-notch, and you should hear true surround sound—as if speakers were hidden in your walls, with the sound not seeming to come directly from the soundbar itself, assuming your room has no large openings. The bass response should also be impressive, even without a subwoofer, since the Ambeo can actually reach down to 30 Hz. If you’re not experiencing any of this, you might have a defective unit; quality control on the Ambeo can sometimes be hit or miss.

Pure fiction. The physical laws of the universe are immutable. No 4" speaker is going to reach 30 Hz now matter how many you have. Adding speakers only increases sound output and not bass extension. Our brains are not fooled and will know where the sound is coming from no matter how you point and configure the speakers.

 

[privateeye]

Pure fiction. The physical laws of the universe are immutable. No 4" speaker is going to reach 30 Hz now matter how many you have. Adding speakers only increases sound output and not bass extension. Our brains are not fooled and will know where the sound is coming from no matter how you point and configure the speakers.

It absolutely can, though, as it uses four 4-inch long-throw woofers. People have measured it, and virtually any—and I do mean any—professional review will validate this claim. Is it surprising? Yes, it's very surprising, but at the same time, it's legit. I won’t die on this hill, as I’ve never measured it myself, but the bass output is so good that it’s uncanny. Is it as good as a dedicated subwoofer? No, not a good one at least, but it digs down way deeper than you would ever imagine possible just by looking at it.

 

[privateeye]

Pure fiction. The physical laws of the universe are immutable. No 4" speaker is going to reach 30 Hz now matter how many you have. Adding speakers only increases sound output and not bass extension. Our brains are not fooled and will know where the sound is coming from no matter how you point and configure the speakers.

I need to touch on one more thing. There are soundbars that use sound projection technology, where you absolutely cannot tell the audio is coming from the soundbar. It literally sounds like the audio is coming from your far left, right, and rear walls, and I mean this in the most legitimate way—it sounds like there are hidden speakers, with no sense that anything other than the center channel audio is coming from the bar. This technology has been around; check out Yamaha Sound Projectors. Pioneer originally developed this technology using speaker arrays, just like Yamaha did. Ambeo, older Bowers & Wilkins models, and maybe a few others use this technique, and it is extremely convincing—it’s legitimate surround sound, provided you’re in an ideal room.

 

[TLS Guy]

It absolutely can, though, as it uses four 4-inch long-throw woofers. People have measured it, and virtually any—and I do mean any—professional review will validate this claim. Is it surprising? Yes, it's very surprising, but at the same time, it's legit. I won’t die on this hill, as I’ve never measured it myself, but the bass output is so good that it’s uncanny. Is it as good as a dedicated subwoofer? No, not a good one at least, but it digs down way deeper than you would ever imagine possible just by looking at it.

It will be some sort of false bass. There is no way a 4" speaker is going to have a resonant frequency anywhere near 30 Hz, and you can not drive a speaker below Fs. I know darn well it will not sound as if the sound is coming from side, rear walls or ceiling. We all are ruled by nature's physical laws.

 

[privateeye]

It will be some sort of false bass. There is no way a 4" speaker is going to have a resonant frequency anywhere near 30 Hz, and you can not drive a speaker below Fs. I know darn well it will not sound as if the sound is coming from side, rear walls or ceiling. We all are ruled by nature's physical laws.

Of course, this is just the opinion of someone who has neither heard, owned, nor done any research on these soundbars. Maybe it would be worth doing some actual research before forming an opinion. But hey, maybe you're right, and all the owners and professional reviewers who've tested these units are just wrong.

 

[TLS Guy]

Of course, this is just the opinion of someone who has neither heard, owned, nor done any research on these soundbars. Maybe it would be worth doing some actual research before forming an opinion. But hey, maybe you're right, and all the owners and professional reviewers who've tested these units are just wrong.

Yes, the users are mislead. I can find no hard data on the measured performance of those units, nor meaningful specs. All that is out there is anecdotal, and subjective opinion which is of minimal value.

What I do know after 70 years of working with drivers, designing and measuring speakers, is that no unit with 4" drivers is going to get to 30 Hz with any useful or meaningful output. If it did we would all be clamoring for that technology and the professional engineering press would be buzzing with it. It is not.

 

[highfigh]

The specs in the manual show "Frequency Response 38-20KHz ±3dB"- being able to measure 38 Hz is very different from being able to hear 38Hz from it and they didn't show the environment where it was measured. However, that's moot because subwoofer crossover is typically set somewhere between 60Hz and 120Hz.

It might be helpful to use a visual display of the response when setting the levels and crossover frequency- download an RTA app and look at the subwoofer's response as you adjust it, but leave the soundbar off. Then, look at the response for the soundbar without the sub and you should notice that the <60Hz range isn't great, so raise the crossover to 60-80z, wherever it's smoothest. Then, set the sub's crossover frequency to a similar point with minimal overlap before raising the sub's level to meet the level of the soundbar. If you see a hump in the response, you can lower the sub's crossover frequency until you see a dip, then raise it to make the response smooth.

 

[privateeye]

The specs in the manual show "Frequency Response 38-20KHz ±3dB"- being able to measure 38 Hz is very different from being able to hear 38Hz from it and they didn't show the environment where it was measured. However, that's moot because subwoofer crossover is typically set somewhere between 60Hz and 120Hz.

It might be helpful to use a visual display of the response when setting the levels and crossover frequency- download an RTA app and look at the subwoofer's response as you adjust it, but leave the soundbar off. Then, look at the response for the soundbar without the sub and you should notice that the <60Hz range isn't great, so raise the crossover to 60-80z, wherever it's smoothest. Then, set the sub's crossover frequency to a similar point with minimal overlap before raising the sub's level to meet the level of the soundbar. If you see a hump in the response, you can lower the sub's crossover frequency until you see a dip, then raise it to make the response smooth.

This is worth watching if you're interested in learning about this tech;

 

[privateeye]

It will be some sort of false bass. There is no way a 4" speaker is going to have a resonant frequency anywhere near 30 Hz, and you can not drive a speaker below Fs. I know darn well it will not sound as if the sound is coming from side, rear walls or ceiling. We all are ruled by nature's physical laws.

I'm not sure if you're open to learning about sound projector technology or even interested, but here's some information I dug up for you. I understand your skepticism; however, this technology is real, and as mentioned, when done properly in a properly configured room, there is absolutely no sense whatsoever that the audio you are hearing is coming from the bar in front of you. It is 100% legitimate surround sound from a single source. I'll include a picture of the Pioneer prototype that kicked off this tech and some information about the Yamaha sound projectors. Hell, if you're interested in experiencing it for yourself, you can probably find an old sound projector on your local used market for next to nothing, despite the fact that it used to cost up to thousands of dollars. It's actually some of the coolest tech I have ever experienced (I used to sell these).

Pioneer; https://www.gadgetvenue.com/old-news-but-still-cool-pioneer-pdsp1-04041918/

Old Audioholics article about Yamaha sound projector technology; https://www.audioholics.com/soundbar-and-satellite-speaker-reviews/yamaha-ysp-1100

Quoted from Audioholic review;
Conclusion
The Yamaha YSP-1100 is NOT a typical pseudo-surround system. This is a sophisticated device that literally does what it says. Taking just one physical box you are able to convincingly recreate a 5-speaker surround environment 舑 but that's not exactly true. While 5 speakers can give you surround sound, and inexpensive system is often localizable and highly directional. The Yamaha YSP-1100 almost envelopes you in a sound "bubble" and is an altogether different experience. If you think you've heard these "one speaker does all" systems before, take another look- the YSP-1100 is NOT like anything else I have ever encountered in the industry. This is breaking new ground and I like where it' s going. Perfect for consumers who are looking for lower profile system, the YSP-1100 replaces an AV receiver as well as a surround sound speaker system. Taking into account that there are a host of manufacturers who charge more for a simply combined flat panel LCR speaker, the YSP-1100 is a veritable steal and has earned its 5-star value rating.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm not sure if you're open to learning about sound projector technology or even interested, but here's some information I dug up for you. I understand your skepticism; however, this technology is real, and as mentioned, when done properly in a properly configured room, there is absolutely no sense whatsoever that the audio you are hearing is coming from the bar in front of you. It is 100% legitimate surround sound from a single source. I'll include a picture of the Pioneer prototype that kicked off this tech and some information about the Yamaha sound projectors. Hell, if you're interested in experiencing it for yourself, you can probably find an old sound projector on your local used market for next to nothing, despite the fact that it used to cost up to thousands of dollars. It's actually some of the coolest tech I have ever experienced (I used to sell these).

Pioneer; https://www.gadgetvenue.com/old-news-but-still-cool-pioneer-pdsp1-04041918/

Old Audioholics article about Yamaha sound projector technology; https://www.audioholics.com/soundbar-and-satellite-speaker-reviews/yamaha-ysp-1100

Quoted from Audioholic review;
Conclusion
The Yamaha YSP-1100 is NOT a typical pseudo-surround system. This is a sophisticated device that literally does what it says. Taking just one physical box you are able to convincingly recreate a 5-speaker surround environment 舑 but that's not exactly true. While 5 speakers can give you surround sound, and inexpensive system is often localizable and highly directional. The Yamaha YSP-1100 almost envelopes you in a sound "bubble" and is an altogether different experience. If you think you've heard these "one speaker does all" systems before, take another look- the YSP-1100 is NOT like anything else I have ever encountered in the industry. This is breaking new ground and I like where it' s going. Perfect for consumers who are looking for lower profile system, the YSP-1100 replaces an AV receiver as well as a surround sound speaker system. Taking into account that there are a host of manufacturers who charge more for a simply combined flat panel LCR speaker, the YSP-1100 is a veritable steal and has earned its 5-star value rating.

I am very happy with my tech!

Power 3200 watts all channels driven.

That really does put the concert hall in your room!

The tech available spans sixty years.

 

[privateeye]

I am very happy with my tech!

Power 3200 watts all channels driven.

That really does put the concert hall in your room!

The tech available spans sixty years.

I wasn’t suggesting you trade in your system for a soundbar for God's sake, but rather trying to introduce you to some impressive tech that you seemed completely unaware of or found hard to believe existed. Even with your 50 years of experience, there are still things out there that can surprise you—things you’ve never heard of! Nice setup.

 

[isolar8001]

I'm not sure if you're open to learning about sound projector technology or even interested, but here's some information I dug up for you. I understand your skepticism; however, this technology is real, and as mentioned, when done properly in a properly configured room, there is absolutely no sense whatsoever that the audio you are hearing is coming from the bar in front of you. It is 100% legitimate surround sound from a single source. I'll include a picture of the Pioneer prototype that kicked off this tech and some information about the Yamaha sound projectors. Hell, if you're interested in experiencing it for yourself, you can probably find an old sound projector on your local used market for next to nothing, despite the fact that it used to cost up to thousands of dollars. It's actually some of the coolest tech I have ever experienced (I used to sell these).

Pioneer; https://www.gadgetvenue.com/old-news-but-still-cool-pioneer-pdsp1-04041918/

Old Audioholics article about Yamaha sound projector technology; https://www.audioholics.com/soundbar-and-satellite-speaker-reviews/yamaha-ysp-1100

Quoted from Audioholic review;
Conclusion
The Yamaha YSP-1100 is NOT a typical pseudo-surround system. This is a sophisticated device that literally does what it says. Taking just one physical box you are able to convincingly recreate a 5-speaker surround environment 舑 but that's not exactly true. While 5 speakers can give you surround sound, and inexpensive system is often localizable and highly directional. The Yamaha YSP-1100 almost envelopes you in a sound "bubble" and is an altogether different experience. If you think you've heard these "one speaker does all" systems before, take another look- the YSP-1100 is NOT like anything else I have ever encountered in the industry. This is breaking new ground and I like where it' s going. Perfect for consumers who are looking for lower profile system, the YSP-1100 replaces an AV receiver as well as a surround sound speaker system. Taking into account that there are a host of manufacturers who charge more for a simply combined flat panel LCR speaker, the YSP-1100 is a veritable steal and has earned its 5-star value rating.

You obviously have no idea who you are replying to.

 

[privateeye]

You obviously have no idea who you are replying to.

It’s a shame how defensive people get on these audio forums when you correct them. Some folks seem to think that anyone with years of experience or a long-standing reputation is beyond making mistakes. But for the record, I don’t need to know anyone’s background here; he was simply unaware of sound projector technology and what it can do, based on his own statements in this thread. I pointed it out with clear information, politely, and without any intent to insult.

 

[isolar8001]

It’s a shame how defensive people get on these audio forums when you correct them. Some folks seem to think that anyone with years of experience or a long-standing reputation is beyond making mistakes. But for the record, I don’t need to know anyone’s background here; he was simply unaware of sound projector technology and what it can do, based on his own statements in this thread. I pointed it out with clear information, politely, and without any intent to insult.

Sorry, but you didn't "correct" anyone....especially TLS Guy.

 

[privateeye]

Sorry, but you didn't "correct" anyone....especially TLS Guy.

I unequivocally corrected him. He insisted that it was inconceivable to hear audio without recognizing its source from the soundbar directly in front of you. His lack of awareness regarding the existence of such sound projector technology was evident. I’ve since demonstrated its validity, substantiated by a review from another credible authority—a professional reviewer from Audioholics. Furthermore, I could easily provide a dozen more reviews from professional critics to further substantiate my position. Please explain where my reasoning is flawed, without resorting to vague generalities or empty assertions that fail to address the specifics of my argument. I look forward to your response.

 

[TLS Guy]

I wasn’t suggesting you trade in your system for a soundbar for God's sake, but rather trying to introduce you to some impressive tech that you seemed completely unaware of or found hard to believe existed. Even with your 50 years of experience, there are still things out there that can surprise you—things you’ve never heard of! Nice setup.

That Yamaha unit is discontinued. It was -10 db at 55Hz, so any sub would have to be set high and likely localizable. There were no objective measurements. I have reviewed forum comments such as AVS and the like. It seemed people were pretty tired of the experience by four months or so, which does not surprise. The whole approach is contrary to what is understood in neuropsychology on the localization of sounds. Being able to accurately localize sound without confusion has important survival value. This attribute is found to be widespread throughout the animal kingdom confers huge survival advantage.

So as far as I am concerned those approaches you are recommending have no established science on which to base these designs. As far as I am concerned they are total bunk and not based on any sound neurophysiological science.