Dip In The SACD Pool

[MR.MAGOO]

My "new" 4K UHD Blu-ray player also plays SACD's so I bought a couple of discs to try it out. Not impressive, the sound seems "muddy" or "muffled"
Maybe I've got the wrong combination for playing SACD.
Yamaha RX-A2A receiver, Sony UBP-X700 /M 4k UHD player. DefTech Studio Monitor 65 speakers. SVS SB2000 subwoofers (2).
HDMI 2.1 cables, 48Gbps connects the Sony player to the Yamaha AVR. 3 feet long, can't go shorter unless I stack components on each other.

 

[isolar8001]

My "new" 4K UHD Blu-ray player also plays SACD's so I bought a couple of discs to try it out. Not impressive, the sound seems "muddy" or "muffled"
Maybe I've got the wrong combination for playing SACD.
Yamaha RX-A2A receiver, Sony UBP-X700 /M 4k UHD player. DefTech Studio Monitor 65 speakers. SVS SB2000 subwoofers (2).
HDMI 2.1 cables, 48Gbps connects the Sony player to the Yamaha AVR. 3 feet long, can't go shorter unless I stack components on each other.

Nothing wrong with your gear or hookup.
Many SACD's just don't sound very good.....they almost always are lower in volume than their Redbook counterparts.
They seemed to be a marketing scheme from the start (earliest selling of Hi-Rez audio), and their demise is justified.

The only plus side is the 5.1 mixes available on many.

 

[Paul DS]

My "new" 4K UHD Blu-ray player also plays SACD's so I bought a couple of discs to try it out. Not impressive, the sound seems "muddy" or "muffled"
Maybe I've got the wrong combination for playing SACD.
Yamaha RX-A2A receiver, Sony UBP-X700 /M 4k UHD player. DefTech Studio Monitor 65 speakers. SVS SB2000 subwoofers (2).
HDMI 2.1 cables, 48Gbps connects the Sony player to the Yamaha AVR. 3 feet long, can't go shorter unless I stack components on each other.

All SACDs are not equal. If you want a realy good sounding 5 channel SACD, I would highly recomment the Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms" CD. I think you would find the sound to be top notch.

 

[lovinthehd]

What discs did you get? 2ch or multich? Quality of recordings aren't just about the media.

 

[dolynick]

Most of my SACD/DSD content sounds good. Not necessarily noticeably better than redbook CD, but fine. I don't really go in for the multichannel mixes on them, but I can see the argument for that being the more overt benefit of the format over CD.

In a lot of cases, the SACD is also a remaster, so it's just different than the CD anyways. That can be an improvement or not just on that metric.

 

[TLS Guy]

My "new" 4K UHD Blu-ray player also plays SACD's so I bought a couple of discs to try it out. Not impressive, the sound seems "muddy" or "muffled"
Maybe I've got the wrong combination for playing SACD.
Yamaha RX-A2A receiver, Sony UBP-X700 /M 4k UHD player. DefTech Studio Monitor 65 speakers. SVS SB2000 subwoofers (2).
HDMI 2.1 cables, 48Gbps connects the Sony player to the Yamaha AVR. 3 feet long, can't go shorter unless I stack components on each other.

SACD was always a dumb and really dumb audiophool concoction. It was devised because the absurd and totally wrong notion of the "step" theory of PCM. That was debunked at the outset, but you know audiophools and their "magic" cables etc. Those loons have no time for science or logic. The only benefit was that it did support multichannel audio with five discrete channels rather than the two of the CD.

However it does not stop there, as single bit DSD is a huge pain to master, process and edit. So pretty soon everyone stopped doing that including its most vociferous proponents. So, when all was done a dusted they converted the final product to DSD. They kept darn quiet about that though, until their cover was blown.

It is an awkward inconvenient system without merit. Have you got that "you dim as ditchwater audiophools"?

 

[Trell]

SACD was always a dumb and really dumb audiophool concoction. It was devised because the absurd and totally wrong notion of the "step" theory of PCM. That was debunked at the outset, but you know audiophools and their "magic" cables etc. Those loons have no time for science or logic. The only benefit was that it did support multichannel audio with five discrete channels rather than the two of the CD.

However it does not stop there, as single bit DSD is a huge pain to master, process and edit. So pretty soon everyone stopped doing that including its most vociferous proponents. So, when all was done a dusted they converted the final product to DSD. They kept darn quiet about that though, until their cover was blown.

It is an awkward inconvenient system without merit. Have you got that "you dumb as ditchwater audiophools"?

My multichannel SACDs sounds very nice, though.

And SACD and DVD-A were essentially the only practical choices for high quality formats available to the consumer at that time.

 

[TLS Guy]

My multichannel SACDs sounds very nice, though.

So do mine, but they would sound just as good in multichannel PCM. The proponents actually admit that as everything is PCM until the final master.

 

[Trell]

So do mine, but they would sound just as good in multichannel PCM. The proponents actually admit that as everything is PCM until the final master.

Absolutly, and that is what my Oppo converts to before sending it to my receiver. My interest in SACD is in the multichannel layer.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

What discs did you get? 2ch or multich? Quality of recordings aren't just about the media.

Japanese imports.
Supertramp - Breakfast In America
DSD flat transfer from US original analogue master tapes by Warren Sokol at Universal Mastering Studios, Hollywood, CA in 2013
Edited in DSD by Manabu Matsumura at Universal Music Studios, Tokyo, in 2013

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms
DSD flat transfer from UK original analogue master tapes by Mick Mckenna & Richard Whittaker at FX Copyroom, London in 2014
Edited in DSD by Masaru Takagi (SIProject) at Sunrise Studio, Tokyo in 2014.

Both read "SHM DSD Single Layer" on the disc. (greenish color) Japanese imports.

No indication of multi or 2 channel.

 

[lovinthehd]

Japanese imports.
Supertramp - Breakfast In America
DSD flat transfer from US original analogue master tapes by Warren Sokol at Universal Mastering Studios, Hollywood, CA in 2013
Edited in DSD by Manabu Matsumura at Universal Music Studios, Tokyo, in 2013

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms
DSD flat transfer from UK original analogue master tapes by Mick Mckenna & Richard Whittaker at FX Copyroom, London in 2014
Edited in DSD by Masaru Takagi (SIProject) at Sunrise Studio, Tokyo in 2014.

Both read "SHM DSD Single Layer" on the disc. (greenish color) Japanese imports.

No indication of multi or 2 channel.

It would indicate surround/multich if it had such. I do like the Brothers in Arms multich sacd I have (5.1 20th anny from Vertigo) but then even vinyl sounds great for that particular recording, it's just an excellent recording. I don't have an sacd for Breakfast in America but haven't run across a multich version but generally I find Supertramp recordings to be quite good.

 

[Joe B]

SACD is good for multi-channel playback. I listen to lots of classical music, and the SACD's sound great on my 5.1 system. You are brought into the larger soundstage. The fact that the information is in the DSD format means nothing to me on that system. As was said, my Oppo converts the DSD to PCM and sends it to the Anthem receiver which converts everything into a 32 bit PCM signal for the DSP. So on my 5.1 system, I've only ever heard what is produced by the AKM based DAC after bass management, ARC. etc., etc.

Listening to multi-channel playback is great with a dialed in system. SACD's provide a great musical experience. Blu-ray discs (2L - the Nordic Sound) also provide audio formats like 5.1 DTS HD-MA 192/24, 7.1.4 Auro-3D 96kHz, and 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos 48kHz for those who have an Atmos set up. There's nothing wrong with multi-channel playback in music any more than there is in playback for a movie. SACD's are fine.

edit: When it comes to hi-res files, I have no problem at all listening to a 2xDSD binaural native download on my headphone system.

 

[j_garcia]

The real issue with trying to get into SACD today is many of the top titles are out of print and/or extremely expensive. Brothers In Arms is still readily available and so is Dark Side of the Moon. DSoTM I think you are better off with the 50th Anniversary Atmos version instead though, even if you don't have Atmos yet (it contains a number of options).

 

[Trell]

Japanese imports.
Supertramp - Breakfast In America
DSD flat transfer from US original analogue master tapes by Warren Sokol at Universal Mastering Studios, Hollywood, CA in 2013
Edited in DSD by Manabu Matsumura at Universal Music Studios, Tokyo, in 2013

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms
DSD flat transfer from UK original analogue master tapes by Mick Mckenna & Richard Whittaker at FX Copyroom, London in 2014
Edited in DSD by Masaru Takagi (SIProject) at Sunrise Studio, Tokyo in 2014.

Both read "SHM DSD Single Layer" on the disc. (greenish color) Japanese imports.

No indication of multi or 2 channel.

These are stereo layer only and they are not hybrid, that is, no Redbook layer. I've a couple of "SHM DSD Single Layer" SACD but I'm not that happy they're not hybrid as I can't rip them. I've a few non-hybrid multichannel SACD as well. Besides, I by far prefer the multichannel layer, and all except a handful of my SACDs in my collection are multichannel.

It's worth recalling that stereo layers of hybrid SACD may be entirely different. The most obvious one I've got is the following where on the SACD stereo layers it's just the singer and is grand piano while on the Redbook layer his friends have joined in. The multichannel layer is great on that one.

https://www.discogs.com/release/7508618-Christian-Willisohn-Hold-On

 

[Trell]

The real issue with trying to get into SACD today is many of the top titles are out of print and/or extremely expensive. Brothers In Arms is still readily available and so is Dark Side of the Moon. DSoTM I think you are better off with the 50th Anniversary Atmos version instead though, even if you don't have Atmos yet (it contains a number of options).

That is generally true but for classical music or jazz the price is very much lower, but that assumes you like those two genres, of course. One very nice thing about SACD (be it stereo or multichannel) is that you could just put them in a player and off you go! Blu-ray is not there yet and needs (as far as I know) a TV to select what you want to listen to, good grief.

 

[j_garcia]

That is generally true but for classical music or jazz the price is very much lower, but that assumes you like those two genres, of course. One very nice thing about SACD (be it stereo or multichannel) is that you could just put them in a player and off you go! Blu-ray is not there yet and needs (as far as I know) a TV to select what you want to listen to, good grief.

Yes, depends on what you are after. If you search around, you can still find some gems that were reissued for good prices, but some titles you may need to pay extra for. I would say read reviews before buying certain titles. Just because they are popular or well known does not mean the SACD version is great. Especially if the original master is not great.

 

[Trell]

Yes, depends on what you are after. If you search around, you can still find some gems that were reissued for good prices, but some titles you may need to pay extra for. I would say read reviews before buying certain titles. Just because they are popular or well known does not mean the SACD version is great. Especially if the original master is not great.

Agree on all your points, and for sure not all multichannel SACDs are mixed/mastered well, to advance a pet peeve of mine, nor is a master intended for vinyl a good choice for SACD or CD.

As for multichannel mixes gone wrong is Chick Corea "Rendevouz in New York", an early SACD, where I just listen to the stereo layer. The multichannel layer has a real bad balance between the front speakers and the surround to such a degree that they play at my side or behind, so front sound stage is just gone. If I really liked that genre might have overlooked that.