Questions About Upgrading a Polk PSW350 to an SVS PB-1000

[Tankini]

Thanks -- rather stick to a powered sub right now though.

RBH has powered Subs, Very good ones. You've been given Excellent recommendations and advice by AH members. Cheers!

 

[John Lohmann]

Thanks....will look into them. You recommend them over SVS?

 

[ski2xblack]

I'm going to most likely leave the phase switch at zero, where I left it in the home theater setup we used it in, as it will continue sitting on the same wall/plane as the two main speakers. I don't understand how the crossover LPF knob can work in conjunction with a sub preout connection, though.

Thats a misconception. The sub's lpf is always in the circuit, and downstream of the line input, so it most certainly will work in conjunction with the receiver's sub out connection. The sub preout on that stereo receiver is either not filtered (full range signal) or might have a fixed lpf but at a higher frequency that you likely need, so you'll have to rely on the sub's lpf.

The phase swich has nothing to do with the plane of the speakers. It's there so you can better dial in the crossover between your mains and sub. I encourage you to try both settings of the phase switch and choose what works best.

If you're doing the calibration by ear, it will be a shot in the dark. If you have REW or Dayton Omnimic, you could dial it in more precisely.

 

[John Lohmann]

Thats a misconception. The sub's lpf is always in the circuit, and downstream of the line input, so it most certainly will work in conjunction with the receiver's sub out connection. The sub preout on that stereo receiver is either not filtered (full range signal) or might have a fixed lpf but at a higher frequency that you likely need, so you'll have to rely on the sub's lpf.

I encourage you to try both settings of the phase switch and choose what works best.

If you're doing the calibration by ear, it will be a shot in the dark. If you have REW or Dayton Omnimic, you could dial it in more precisely.

That's interesting, and, if true, it's a misconception that's been going around for a LONG time...even Polk enginners themselves assured me that if something is connected to the LFE input, the sub's internal crossover is DEFINITELY bypassed.

However, just to be sure, I have always kept the sub's crossover knob turned all the way up just to increase the chance of getting it out of the signal path.

 

[ski2xblack]

if something is connected to the LFE input, the sub's internal crossover is DEFINITELY bypassed.

Use the line level input on the sub, not the lfe input. That won't bypass the lpf.

What specific stereo reciever are you using?

 

[John Lohmann]

Use the line level input on the sub, not the lfe input.

Oh, you mean ONE of the line level inputs that are supposedly "summed to mono"? Not the SPEAKER level inputs, correct?

My observation was based on what has always been said about plugging in a cable to a sub's main LFE input....

 

[Tankini]

Thanks....will look into them. You recommend them over SVS?

I don't like a Amp in a Sub. They usually don't hold up. Passive sub with an outboard amp is really the better way to go. Reliability, longevity, some don't have the room for added gear. Or like you stated, You prefer a powered Sub. I'm not advocating for either-or, just recommending options. Recommending one over the other is a slippery slope. Especially when it comes to sound, being subjective as it is already.

 

[ski2xblack]

Oh, you mean ONE of the line level inputs that are supposedly "summed to mono"? Not the SPEAKER level inputs, correct?

Correct.

 

[John Lohmann]

I don't like a Amp in a Sub. They usually don't hold up. Passive sub with an outboard amp is really the better way to go. Reliability, longevity, some don't have the room for add gear. Or like you stated, You prefer a powered Sub. I'm not advocating for either-or, just recommending options. Recommending one over the other is a slippery slope. Special when it comes to sound, being subjective as it is already.

Fair enough; was just attempting to get some guidance going forward because it is, after all, an enthusiast discussion forum and I was guided towards the SVS 1000 Pro.

 

[John Lohmann]

Correct.

Understood; yes, that was recommended upthread by someone else. I will consider it.

If I did plug it into the main LFE input, what happens with the bass? Does it just play alongside the main speakers without any way of controlling the crossover? Will it simply sound "sloppy"?

 

[Tankini]

Use the line level input on the sub, not the lfe input. That won't bypass the lpf.

What specific stereo reciever are you using?

Same here, don't believe I've ever used LFE. Excellent advice on your other post ain't your first rodeo.

"The sub's lpf is always in the circuit, and downstream of the line input, so it most certainly will work in conjunction with the receiver's sub out connection. The sub preout on that stereo receiver is either not filtered (full range signal) or might have a fixed lpf but at a higher frequency that you likely need, so you'll have to rely on the sub's lpf."

 

[ski2xblack]

Understood; yes, that was recommended upthread by someone else. I will consider it.

If I did plug it into the main LFE input, what happens with the bass? Does it just play alongside the main speakers without any way of controlling the crossover? Will it simply sound "sloppy"?

If the sub out on the stereo receiver is unfiltered, and you use the sub's lfe input bypassing it's lpf, then yes, it will sound bad, e.g. the sub will be localizable, male vocals and such emanating from the sub, resulting in a total mud fest. You just don't want the sub to extend that high.

 

[Tankini]

Fair enough; was just attempting to get some guidance going forward because it is, after all, an enthusiast discussion forum and I was guided towards the SVS 1000 Pro.

Your good brother, you are asking the right questions about Sub/Subs. I just picked up a very good tip, from reading @ski2xblack post on LPF (Low pass filter) In conjunction with sub out of avr/ Integrated. That's an excellent suggestion. But by ear adjustment would be a shot in the dark so to speak. He is spot on about using, REW, Dayton Omnimic, though. Back before all that was available, I used Audyssey XT32 to help dail in 2, 12" Subs with my tower speakers that had 8" side firing drivers. Never could dial-in those Subs by ear alone.

 

[Hobbit]

So use the sub preout and then play with the LPF knob on the Polk? That's where I was getting confused, as I always thought those crossover knobs were completely bypassed when something is immediately connected to the pre jack.

Yes, or the Crossover, whichever they call it on the Polk. It will need to blend with your main speakers. You'll also need to dial in the volume on the Polk for the same reason.

The pre out from your Onkyo will change the volume on the sub as you turn up/down the volume on your Onkyo. However, you'll need a starting point that, like the LPF, blends with your speakers.

I found this to be an iterative process that really took a few weeks to dial in. That's because you'll be listening to certain music that may not have much in LF and plenty of mid-bas and be fooled to turn it up. Then a few days later the walls may be thumping with another source. I you'll down the volume. Eventually you find that happy spot. Again, this is the volume on the Polk.

 

[Hobbit]

Any other suggestions for a good sub to replace our PSW350? Is the consensus that the SVS 1000 Pro not really an appreciable upgrade?

It's hard for us tell what you're shooting for and why the Polk isn't working for you. IOW, YMMV. We can't make a decision for you.

My opinion is the 1k would be a very good upgrade. If it's not enough you can eventually add a second one. I can't imagine in a standard sized living room with standard ceilings you can go wrong. That's if you don't like one.

It's also probably more practical and economical going with two 1ks than it would be one large sub. Besides not having a large initial expenditure, two 1ks may be easier to place and have a better wife factor than one large sub. As @TLS Guy said, there are also other advantages to having two subs that shouldn't be underestimated. I don't miss having one large sub for many reasons. One being it was a piece of furniture!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Any other suggestions for a good sub to replace our PSW350? Is the consensus that the SVS 1000 Pro not really an appreciable upgrade?

So here’s the thing. This is perspective vs perception. In your perception, due to experience with the Polk, the pb1k will be an appreciable upgrade. But in perspective of available options, it’s just ok.
I think you should just order one and try it out. If you love it then it’s a win. If you don’t, send it back and have more information to make a better decision. It’s hard when the only direction to go is up.

 

[John Lohmann]

Thanks everyone.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks everyone.

Roger that! Keep us posted.

 

[John Lohmann]

Roger that! Keep us posted.

Will do; I just wish I had some confirmation regarding whether the PB-1000 Pro, at least, was going to definitely slam harder and be somewhat louder than our current sub...

 

[TLS Guy]

Will do; I just wish I had some confirmation regarding whether the PB-1000 Pro, at least, was going to definitely slam harder and be somewhat louder than our current sub...

I think it certainly will. I am sure you will be able to turn it up louder than it should be.

Slam is produced by factors other than raw power. Slam is not just a function of a sub, this is massive misconception. Slam requires a really good integration of sub with the other speakers and the quality of the rest of the system is crucial here, probably more so than the sub. So the slam very much depends on the power and transient quality of the speakers to well above sub range.

If you don't believe me, then play a sub by itself and I can assure you it will not in any way hear slam.

What a bad sub can do that is "muddy the waters" though. Far too many do from what I have heard.

If you want to hear the realistic crack of those tymps in Beethoven's 9th symphony, then you need a lot more than good subs. There is a renowned passage in that symphony that will tell you if your system can slam in a hurry!

I personally believe on a truly integrated and well designed full range speaker can deliver that edge of your seat excitement and realism.