JD Vance and his military record

mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Study confirmed in this forum! :D

>>>A new study published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology: General reveals an asymmetry in how people across the political spectrum perceive their ability to detect misinformation. While both liberals and conservatives show some awareness of their ability to judge the accuracy of political information, conservatives exhibit a notable weakness when faced with information that contradicts their political beliefs.

In other words, when confronted with news that goes against their political views, conservatives’ confidence in their judgments does not align well with their actual accuracy. This mismatch, or “metacognitive inefficiency,” suggests that conservatives are less aware of when they are wrong when the information contradicts their ideological commitments. ...<<<
Do we have a fair sample size and statistically significant? ;) :D :D :D
Does it pass the @Swerd test? :D:D:D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Do note that "metacognitive inefficiency" was written about in the last sentence in the second paragraph in my quote from the linked article. I'm not sure they would get past the second sentence in the first paragraph.

....
:D:D:D
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
I basically agree with you on this. But those in the club are only repeating the lies they hear from Trump or his designated MAGA political proxies, such as JD Vance. The club's rank & file accept all dog whistles aimed at them. But only after the MAGA candidates or proxies choose which dog whistle has 'grown legs' enough to spread widely through repetition.

In 1994 when Bill Clinton had been president for 2 years, the GOP won control of the House of Representatives. Newt Gingrich became Speaker of the House. His strategy was to create a flood of big whopper lies that might disable Clinton's presidency. He wanted to see which big whoppers got repeated, and then continued to repeat them again & again. The public got so used to hearing these lies that they eventually accepted them. Trump and his MAGA crowd are simply following Gingrich's big lie strategy.

Sometime during the mid 1990s, Bill Clinton replaced his Press Secretary or Chief of Staff (?) with a more aggressive spokesman. (I also don't remember who that was. Maybe Mike McCarry?) This new guy understood how to disarm those frequent lies – with a rapid flurry of refutals & denials. Their method worked because Gingrich & the GOP dropped the lie as soon as it became clear that it would never 'grow legs'. And they came up with more & more big lies.

That GOP strategy was only neutralized by the Democratic Party's rapid response against them. It helped if the response sounded outraged by the original lie. Their previous strategy had failed. Appealing to logic & common decency only worked within the Democratic Party.

There's nothing new in politics :).
Minor quibble is I'm not sure Trump & the GOP are following Gingrich. Rather it's just lie cause it has worked well enough for them over the years. Unless Gingrich was the person that significantly altered the party's strategy.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Minor quibble is I'm not sure Trump & the GOP are following Gingrich. Rather it's just lie cause it has worked well enough for them over the years. Unless Gingrich was the person that significantly altered the party's strategy.
Gingrich's efforts were ~30 years ago. Trump & his MAGA followers may not recall anything from that long ago – I'm not sure they can recall anything from 3 years ago. But they definitely are following Gingrich's strategy, whether they are conscious or unconscious about it.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I have some questions-

If we're going to crap on people for their lack of service or supposed 'they only played Army', why isn't anyone saying anything about Harris? Is Walz supposed to be the "guy with military experience' for her, or will she trust the DOD and Joint Chiefs Of Staff?

We have a helluva lot going on militarily in various parts of the World and I have serious doubts about her ability to handle them. We haven't had anyone with Military service as POTUS since W and I don't consider him or his cabinet good Unfortunately, his cabinet was full of push-button controllers.

BTW- jobs.......?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/21/economy/bls-jobs-revisions/index.html

If the economy and border are going so well, why are the main points of her campaign THE ECONOMY AND THE BORDER?

Nobody should believe government reports in the year leading up to an election.

We need better candidates.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
If we're going to crap on people for their lack of service or supposed 'they only played Army', why isn't anyone saying anything about Harris? Is Walz supposed to be the "guy with military experience' for her, or will she trust the DOD and Joint Chiefs Of Staff?
Did Trump have more military service than Harris?
We have a helluva lot going on militarily in various parts of the World and I have serious doubts about her ability to handle them.
Do you have fewer doubts about Harris's opposition in this election, Trump? I certainly do. His record as President (2016 to 2020)) clearly shows his ideas of foreign policy & military use are at best impractical, and at worst, recklessly dangerous to US national interests. (Ask his buddy Vladimir Putin.)
We haven't had anyone with Military service as POTUS since W and I don't consider him or his cabinet good Unfortunately, his cabinet was full of push-button controllers.
W spent much less time in the Texas Air National Guard than Walz did in the Army Reserves. I realize that you did point out that W and his cabinet were not good, but how can you say W's military "service" qualified him in military matters, but that Walz is not qualified? Seriously?
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
If we're going to crap on people for their lack of service or supposed 'they only played Army', why isn't anyone saying anything about Harris? Is Walz supposed to be the "guy with military experience' for her, or will she trust the DOD and Joint Chiefs Of Staff?
WTF are you talking about?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I have some questions-

If we're going to crap on people for their lack of service or supposed 'they only played Army', why isn't anyone saying anything about Harris? Is Walz supposed to be the "guy with military experience' for her, or will she trust the DOD and Joint Chiefs Of Staff?

We have a helluva lot going on militarily in various parts of the World and I have serious doubts about her ability to handle them. We haven't had anyone with Military service as POTUS since W and I don't consider him or his cabinet good Unfortunately, his cabinet was full of push-button controllers.

BTW- jobs.......?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/21/economy/bls-jobs-revisions/index.html

If the economy and border are going so well, why are the main points of her campaign THE ECONOMY AND THE BORDER?

Nobody should believe government reports in the year leading up to an election.

We need better candidates.
FDR did a masterful job of guiding the US through the 2nd WW and he had no military background. POTUS depends on expert advisors to help navigate military confrontations. And, I would expect Harris to assemble a far more competent administration than Trump did. Biden did well vis a vis Russia/Ukraine and I expect Harris would follow a similar path. Trump, on the other hand, would throw Ukraine under the bus in a second if he stood to benefit personally.

I admit that I am completely mystified as to how this race is even close. Trump has proven himself to be completely unfit for office. Harris couldn't possibly do a worse job.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
FDR did a masterful job of guiding the US through the 2nd WW and he had no military background. POTUS depends on expert advisors to help navigate military confrontations.
One of FDR's most valued generals was Eisenhower. He deserves credit for successfully leading the Allies to victory over Nazi Germany. And yet, Eisenhower was a lack luster president. Military experience doesn't guarantee success as a politician, and political experience doesn't make for a successful general or admiral.
I admit that I am completely mystified as to how this race is even close. Trump has proven himself to be completely unfit for office. Harris couldn't possibly do a worse job.
Ha Ha, LOL!
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
FDR did a masterful job of guiding the US through the 2nd WW and he had no military background. POTUS depends on expert advisors to help navigate military confrontations. And, I would expect Harris to assemble a far more competent administration than Trump did. Biden did well vis a vis Russia/Ukraine and I expect Harris would follow a similar path. Trump, on the other hand, would throw Ukraine under the bus in a second if he stood to benefit personally.

I admit that I am completely mystified as to how this race is even close. Trump has proven himself to be completely unfit for office. Harris couldn't possibly do a worse job.
A current example is the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy that as far as I know does not have any military service, except perhaps as a conscript as a young man which was common in Europe at that time. I think that Zelenskyy have done a great service to his country during this brutal full scale invasion by the Russians. A person of Trump standard would have fled at once or capitulated at once.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
I have some questions-

If we're going to crap on people for their lack of service or supposed 'they only played Army', why isn't anyone saying anything about Harris? Is Walz supposed to be the "guy with military experience' for her, or will she trust the DOD and Joint Chiefs Of Staff?

We have a helluva lot going on militarily in various parts of the World and I have serious doubts about her ability to handle them. We haven't had anyone with Military service as POTUS since W and I don't consider him or his cabinet good Unfortunately, his cabinet was full of push-button controllers.

BTW- jobs.......?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/21/economy/bls-jobs-revisions/index.html

If the economy and border are going so well, why are the main points of her campaign THE ECONOMY AND THE BORDER?

Nobody should believe government reports in the year leading up to an election.

We need better candidates.
Agreed with the need for better candidates. The big difference to me is that there was no draft in Harris youth and Trump actively avoided it. Bone spears after 4 college deferments? Really?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...
W spent much less time in the Texas Air National Guard than Walz did in the Army Reserves. I realize that you did point out that W and his cabinet were not good, but how can you say W's military "service" qualified him in military matters, but that Walz is not qualified? Seriously?
And his service record is hard to find with meaningful data, perhaps flushed, removed, sanitized.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Agreed with the need for better candidates. The big difference to me is that there was no draft in Harris youth and Trump actively avoided it. Bone spears after 4 college deferments? Really?
Not sure who admitted that the letter by the doctor was fraudulent. No one checked, x-rayed. Got away with the lie. It may have been his father who arranged this.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
“Love” that Vance is now complaining about how the Dems are hitting him and the trumpster fire with all their bs over the years, decrying that they need to stop.

“Only Donald and I get to do that. That’s what he promised when I agreed to this. I’m not having fun anymore. I want an ice cream!”
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Agreed with the need for better candidates. The big difference to me is that there was no draft in Harris youth and Trump actively avoided it. Bone spears after 4 college deferments? Really?
Biden avoided going to Vietnam with 5 deferments- what's your point? IF trump had bone spurs and they were chronic, the deferment would have been the same and he wouldn't have made it through boot camp but as a college student, he may have had the connections to get a post outside of the battle zones. Who knows?

My point from another post- people are bickering about candidates who didn't go to war when the new "historical first' candidate didn't go because "there was no war in Harris' youth", but she could have enlisted if she had wanted, like many. The ads I hear and see say that she knows about being middle class and she worked at McDonalds. Yeah, that qualifies her.

I'm tired of hearing about a candidate who's making history because she's the first Woman, First Black woman, first Asian woman, etc to be nominated. None of those are actual qualifications and if she wants to make history, she could :

Fix the US education system- the US used to be at/near the top of World rankings, but we're fat from that, now.

Establish functional diplomatic relations with countries that hate us. Yeah, it's a gigantic task, but it needs to happen. Putin, the Middle East, China, North Korea- all are causing chaos and problems that will never be solved on their own, or by the choice of any one of the leaders.

Stop bullshitting potential voters by saying that she'll solve a list of problems. At best, she might make a dent. Obama didn't solve anything and I doubt anyone would consider her as his equal.

Crime needs to be addressed sensibly and effectively, period.

She now says she'll improve the economy. If Biden did such a good job, why does she need to do this? It's because HE DIDN'T.

She says that the border will be a priority- they said they were doing better than Trump, but the first thing he did is reverse Trump's border policies and that allowed a helluva lot of people of many origins that aren't just from the South of the US into the country. Many are bad people, like it, or not. Not all, but enough to cause problems and the news is filled with reports of this, so don't just attack my comments- look for it.

Speaking of immigration problems, look at Great Britian and Europe- it seems that the open borders policy in the EU aren't working so well, now.

She said she wanted to pump $10 Trillion in Carbon tax during her 2020 campaign- where the eff is that money supposed to come from? She thought we could be Carbon neutral by 2030- a ridiculous goal.

Better candidates would deal with the real world, not some made up fantasy with them saving the planet all by themselves and people need to stop believing the Bullshyte.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
FDR did a masterful job of guiding the US through the 2nd WW and he had no military background. POTUS depends on expert advisors to help navigate military confrontations. And, I would expect Harris to assemble a far more competent administration than Trump did. Biden did well vis a vis Russia/Ukraine and I expect Harris would follow a similar path. Trump, on the other hand, would throw Ukraine under the bus in a second if he stood to benefit personally.

I admit that I am completely mystified as to how this race is even close. Trump has proven himself to be completely unfit for office. Harris couldn't possibly do a worse job.
FDR didn't do as much as you think. His Generals and cabinet were more responsible- it's not as if FDR did any actual planning of battles. He calmed the public as much as he was able, but you seem to be confusing the head being the determining factor in a war that had 16 million Americans involved with 420,000 lost. However, the US didn't do it alone, by any measure.

Harris was DA, Senator, etc and has ZERO military experience in any form.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
My point from another post- people are bickering about candidates who didn't go to war when the new "historical first' candidate didn't go because "there was no war in Harris' youth", but she could have enlisted if she had wanted, like many.
Yeah, that was a weird post.

What we have is Trump with a history of denigrating soldiers (dead or alive) and their families, so him avoiding draft on apparently shady grounds draws criticism. Then we have JD Vance crapping on Walz 24 years of military service who in return just thanked Vance for his service. The GOP and the MAGA Republicans, of course, joins Trump & Vance. This is, essentially, the "bickering" going on.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
FDR didn't do as much as you think. His Generals and cabinet were more responsible- it's not as if FDR did any actual planning of battles. He calmed the public as much as he was able, but you seem to be confusing the head being the determining factor in a war that had 16 million Americans involved with 420,000 lost. However, the US didn't do it alone, by any measure.

Harris was DA, Senator, etc and has ZERO military experience in any form.
He guided the nation. It isn't POTUS's job to prosecute a war at the front. It's his job to have the right people in the right places. He knew the consequences of Axis victory and pursued a policy of assisting the Allies prior to the US's entry into the war, even while there was a strong isolationist streak in America. He even had to contend with his own ambassador to Great Britain - Joseph Kennedy - who was undermining him by opposing assistance and even secretly meeting with German diplomats. Did you know that American destroyers started to help escort convoys across the Atlantic in September 1941? That was a political decision, not military.

After receiving Einstein's letter warning of German pursuit of an atomic bomb, he understood the gravity of the situation and initiated America's own nuclear weapons program.

So yeah, he did more than you think.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
....

Harris was DA, Senator, etc and has ZERO military experience in any form.
Since when is military service or military experience necessary to qualify to be the President? What kind of experience, public affairs, pilot, front line soldiering, artillery, JAG. Is it in the constitution? Must have missed it.
What else must the candidate/President have experience in, EPA, FCC, FDA, all the departments? No, it is not silly to ask.

You still have a choice who to vote for. Don't vote for her, simple.
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Since when is military service or military experience necessary to qualify to be the President? What kind of experience, public affairs, pilot, front line soldiering, artillery. Is it in the constitution? Must have missed it.
What else must the candidate/President have experience in, EPA, FCC, FDA, all the departments? No, it is not silly to ask.

You still have a choice who to vote for. Don't vote for her, simple.
Military experience is not in your constitution as a requirement for the office of President but some people on the very far right are enamoured with military power over civilian life.

Democratic states very wisely requires civilian control of the military but I'm not sure @highfigh agrees with that. Perhaps he can clarify?
 
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