Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Just curious as to why you could not put wires in this wall? I've never heard of such a thing. Was it the way the wall was constructed?
The wall has plaster and chicken wire in it.
I bet you've seen your share of horror stories. I used to watch Mike Holmes on TV and some of the electrical they would uncover was down right scary. Hidden junctions, live unconnected lines...

There are lots of places for the novice to go wrong. And unlike other trades, bad electrical or gas lines can be deadly.
I have extensive experience with gas. Funny thing is, throughout my career, my experience is that most electric guys don’t like dealing with live uncontrolled natural gas, like most gas people don’t like dealing with electrical issues.
Fire departments when confronted with gas leaks clear a path when we show up.

Other than light bulbs, or swapping a switch, I do not mess with electricity! I will gladly pay the man. I value the cross section of knowledge and wisdom on this forum. Thanks again!
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
I live in the desert and don't experience anything close to what he describes!

Hoo boy, yeah this doesn't sound like anything to take lightly, and in fact potentially lethal! You be careful old man. Nobody wants to see you get hurt!
@Pogre and I both live in the desert and dry air and static don't do what you're describing. Nope.
As usual, @TLS Guy said it pretty succinctly, "turn off the breaker and call somebody qualified".
Nobody likes paying hard earned money for unscheduled problems. But the alternative could be way worse.
I believe that's what you're going to do. I would be interested (as many others here would be) on what the problem/fix turns out to be. Bravo for not being a hardhead and trying it yourself.

I once owned a house built in the early 1950's. It had lath plaster walls: those babies were thick, had nasty metal mesh in them, and you couldn't add anything to that without serious issues. I know what you are describing.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
The wall has plaster and chicken wire in it.

I have extensive experience with gas. Funny thing is, throughout my career, my experience is that most electric guys don’t like dealing with live uncontrolled natural gas, like most gas people don’t like dealing with electrical issues.
Fire departments when confronted with gas leaks clear a path when we show up.

Other than light bulbs, or swapping a switch, I do not mess with electricity! I will gladly pay the man. I value the cross section of knowledge and wisdom on this forum. Thanks again!
You can keep your gas (looking at you too @Pogre) and I'll deal with electrical all day long.

Defiantly Definitely let us know what happens. I'm by no means an electrician, but it's always been an interesting trade to me since I went to school for EE.

EDIT: spell check is only as smart as the user using it
 
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Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
Even though I specialized as an Industrial Electrician and was on the tools for a decade, I worked as a Journeyman Wireman for some time, but then mostly on Commercial projects and repairs in Schools. Most of my House Wiring (which is quite simple in the grand scheme of things - we learned all that in technical school during the first 2 years when all branches here took the same training) was coming to the rescue of friends and family, who had disasters from do-it-yourselfers that would make your hair stand on end!

This is not to say some folks who know how to work with hand tools, meters, etc.; and can follow written instructions; aren't able to replace a plug, or a switch, etc. But those who try to take shortcuts can put themselves and others at risk. Like they always say, a man's got to know his limitations.
I'm probably one of the few who takes weeks to research home reno projects to get them done properly. I learned some electrical from my father who did some maintenance at a tool and die shop but I also found a very good book on simplified Ontario electrical codes. It covered all of the basics, like circuit loads, box fill, properly daisy chaining outlets. Our house was mostly knob and tube with a fuse panel when we purchased it so I completely rewired the place when we added on. Had a complete circuit diagram for the house approved by the planning department before hand. Electrical inspector only found two issues: I didn't secure one double switch box properly, and he had me install an additional earth ground. Used to be that grounding to a water pipe was enough but now the ground wire has to be on the other side of the water meter, close to the floor. I did hire a pro to change the panel. Not going to mess with the big stuff.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The only items that typically require 220 are ovens and electric dryers. Each outlet in the kitchen will be a split receptacle, but that is just two separate circuits on a double breaker. If the old panel is small, you can run out circuits / breakers with a major reno. In Ontario, for example, the microwave and refrigerator would also be on their own circuit and if there is a breakfast nook or dining area attached it also has to be on its own circuit. Critical items like freezers and sump pumps also get placed on their own circuit as their failure can be costly. A good electrician will know all of those local codes by heart. For my reno we had to rewire the whole house, so I did a complete wiring diagram to make sure every circuit was within accepted limits.

The AV gear listed in your signature should run off of a single 15A circuit, but I like to have a second circuit available just in case for future proofing. Have one outlet at your AV location on one circuit and have a second outlet nearby that is on a different breaker in case you need to split the load. This does not require any 20 amp circuits but does require two cable runs to the room. Think about where the power cords in the room will run when you plan this. Do you want to keep the outlets behind something so that the cords are not visible or do you need easy access to the outlets?

Other place to consider is a workshop if you have one. A lot of power tools can draw a lot of current. My router and table saw can draw up to 13 amps each. Most of the time you only run one tool at a time, but if you have dust extraction with a good size motor, that can put the circuit over 15 amps, so separate circuits are needed.
In-floor heating and electric radiators often use 220V, too.

Dust collector should be on its own circuit unless it's Current demand has been checked. If it's a 3HP model, definitely. My 2 HP is on the same circuit as the outlets on the adjacent wall and for the lighting, which is all LED. My 3HP table saw, welder and compressor use 220V- the compressor has its own outlet, the welder and table saw are plugged in only when I'm using them but the garage has its own sub-panel and I haven't had any problems with breakers popping when the saw & compressor run at the same time.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I bet you've seen your share of horror stories. I used to watch Mike Holmes on TV and some of the electrical they would uncover was down right scary. Hidden junctions, live unconnected lines...

There are lots of places for the novice to go wrong. And unlike other trades, bad electrical or gas lines can be deadly.
Ever see knob & tube wiring? Splices made with tape and often, no wire nuts in sight. The old wire nuts were ceramic and my house still has a few. Yes, I replace them when I find them.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
In-floor heating and electric radiators often use 220V, too.

Dust collector should be on its own circuit unless it's Current demand has been checked. If it's a 3HP model, definitely. My 2 HP is on the same circuit as the outlets on the adjacent wall and for the lighting, which is all LED. My 3HP table saw, welder and compressor use 220V- the compressor has its own outlet, the welder and table saw are plugged in only when I'm using them but the garage has its own sub-panel and I haven't had any problems with breakers popping when the saw & compressor run at the same time.
Yeah, shop wiring can be demanding depending upon your equipment. That's one heavy duty table saw! I just have a 10" belt drive Craftsman that suits my needs. 120V compressor was good enough too but I don't use a lot of air tools. It's enough to run my nail guns, impact wrench and paint sprayer, but nothing really high volume. Haven't welded since high school but my brother-in-law has that covered. :)
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
The electrician found two outlets that were not grounded, but otherwise everything was ok.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yeah, shop wiring can be demanding depending upon your equipment. That's one heavy duty table saw! I just have a 10" belt drive Craftsman that suits my needs. 120V compressor was good enough too but I don't use a lot of air tools. It's enough to run my nail guns, impact wrench and paint sprayer, but nothing really high volume. Haven't welded since high school but my brother-in-law has that covered. :)
It's only two-phase- MKE used to have a place that bought, reconditioned and sold old industrial woodworking machinery. Ever see a 24" wide jointer? I think it was 14' long. Usually had at least one band saws with 36" throat with 3' of clearance for height. I worked at a lumber yard during one Summer and we used an old DeWalt radial arm saw that had a 9HP motor and used 16" blades- the table saw had a 20HP motor and used the same blades. We cut a lot of 2x12, 3x12 and 4x12 Oak for the railroad service yard across the street and when the old guy did a decent job sharpening the blades, it wasn't bad, other than the sheer weight- this wood was rarely dry, so a long piece might have been around 450 pounds. When he didn't sharpen them properly, which was common, it was interesting.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The electrician found two outlets that were not grounded, but otherwise everything was ok.
Were you watching him? Wondering if you saw wires 'back-stabbed' into the outlets. That should never be done and IIRC, outlets with the holes for doing that came out in the '70s.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
It's only two-phase- MKE used to have a place that bought, reconditioned and sold old industrial woodworking machinery. Ever see a 24" wide jointer? I think it was 14' long. Usually had at least one band saws with 36" throat with 3' of clearance for height. I worked at a lumber yard during one Summer and we used an old DeWalt radial arm saw that had a 9HP motor and used 16" blades- the table saw had a 20HP motor and used the same blades. We cut a lot of 2x12, 3x12 and 4x12 Oak for the railroad service yard across the street and when the old guy did a decent job sharpening the blades, it wasn't bad, other than the sheer weight- this wood was rarely dry, so a long piece might have been around 450 pounds. When he didn't sharpen them properly, which was common, it was interesting.
Closest I've come to that is helping run a portable mill. I was amazed at just how big a log you could slice up with one of those. Lumber was used to build a small shower and sauna next to my friend's log cabin up in Quebec.

Were you watching him? Wondering if you saw wires 'back-stabbed' into the outlets. That should never be done and IIRC, outlets with the holes for doing that came out in the '70s.
I hate those. Such a small point of contact and a PITA to pull the wires back out. Never used that option.
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
I was waiting a few days before I pronounced success….
 
U

Ultrageuss

Audiophyte
The inspector found a few minor issues, mainly around securing junction boxes and grounding. It's fascinating how grounding standards have evolved – the inspector also made me update the grounding to be on the other side of the water meter, close to the floor. I made sure to bring in a pro for the panel upgrade, too. There's no way I was messing with that! I think it's great how you handled your project with such thorough research and planning. For anyone looking for professional help or advice on electrical work, I’ve heard good things about Kanata Utilities Ltd. You can check them out at kanatautilitiesltd.ca. They’re supposed to be pretty innovative with their electrical expertise.
 
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Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
Our basement had some old, questionable wiring that I replaced, and like you, I had a detailed circuit diagram approved by the planning department. The inspector found a few minor issues, mainly around securing junction boxes and grounding. It's fascinating how grounding standards have evolved – the inspector also made me update the grounding to be on the other side of the water meter, close to the floor.
Grounding to the supply side of the water meter is standard. When I changed my panel years ago the one correction required was moving the ground from a nearby water line to the supply side of the water meter. They also had me install a grounding wire from the gas supply line to the water intake on the water heater. That might be specific to our region as I don't recall seeing grounding lines on other water heaters.
 
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