Not real happy with new sub

[Danzilla31]

@ifsixwasnin9 I believe the 690 is 2.5 way design. I bet they would work great with your existing Yamaha. (Forum member @Danzilla31 owned a pair of 698 and is another "bass head". He could give an honest opinion on the bass performance of the 698.) It is very good value for the money as it uses some technology from the higher end JBL HDI line and looks very similar. You might find it interesting that TLS Guy thinks that the 2.5 way design of the 690 is better than the 3 way design of the 698, and the 690 is $100 cheaper.

While your Yamaha does not have bass management, it does have bass, treble and loudness which a lot of modern gear lacks. Something with bass management and room correction software also often requires a TV to navigate the menus, so if you want bass management without video support the choices get limited. If you're thinking of upgrading your amp later I suggest you get some recommendations here on the forums.

Downfiring sub is not necessarily bad. My first sub was downfiring and my current one fires forward. Have you tried turning up the crossover on the Monoprice as suggested and playing with the levels?

If you sell the Monoprice, you may find something like the 690 would work fine without a sub. JBL rates the 690 down to 36Hz so it's a pretty full range speaker. If you still want a sub I would state your budget and get opinions here. There are fewer options available at the cheaper end of the spectrum but there are some decent performing subs that don't cost a fortune. The really good ones start at about $800 like the RSL Speedwoofer 12s. Here is an article on subs in the $500 range:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/best-500-subwoofers-2023
Erin's Audio Corner looked at some cheaper subs a couple of years ago (in the $250 range):

Given the age of your current JBL speakers, though, I would recommend considering an upgrade. TLS Guy is one of the most experienced with vintage gear and his analysis is usually spot on. If you're patient, JBL is known to have some really good discounts on occasion so you might find a pair on sale.

As soon as I'm off work I'll jump in and try to help out!

 

[TLS Guy]

@ifsixwasnin9 I believe the 690 is 2.5 way design. I bet they would work great with your existing Yamaha. (Forum member @Danzilla31 owned a pair of 698 and is another "bass head". He could give an honest opinion on the bass performance of the 698.) It is very good value for the money as it uses some technology from the higher end JBL HDI line and looks very similar. You might find it interesting that TLS Guy thinks that the 2.5 way design of the 690 is better than the 3 way design of the 698, and the 690 is $100 cheaper.

While your Yamaha does not have bass management, it does have bass, treble and loudness which a lot of modern gear lacks. Something with bass management and room correction software also often requires a TV to navigate the menus, so if you want bass management without video support the choices get limited. If you're thinking of upgrading your amp later I suggest you get some recommendations here on the forums.

Downfiring sub is not necessarily bad. My first sub was downfiring and my current one fires forward. Have you tried turning up the crossover on the Monoprice as suggested and playing with the levels?

If you sell the Monoprice, you may find something like the 690 would work fine without a sub. JBL rates the 690 down to 36Hz so it's a pretty full range speaker. If you still want a sub I would state your budget and get opinions here. There are fewer options available at the cheaper end of the spectrum but there are some decent performing subs that don't cost a fortune. The really good ones start at about $800 like the RSL Speedwoofer 12s. Here is an article on subs in the $500 range:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/best-500-subwoofers-2023
Erin's Audio Corner looked at some cheaper subs a couple of years ago (in the $250 range):

Given the age of your current JBL speakers, though, I would recommend considering an upgrade. TLS Guy is one of the most experienced with vintage gear and his analysis is usually spot on. If you're patient, JBL is known to have some really good discounts on occasion so you might find a pair on sale.

With smaller drivers, the 2.5 way is usually a very good solution. It provides BSC optimally as a rule, it provides more power in the crucial power bands, and has superior phase alignment. When you are using small driver 2.5 ways, the three way version is done because the designers will get fired if they don't dance to the idiotic maketer's tune.

 

[ifsixwasnin9]

If you sell the Monoprice, you may find something like the 690 would work fine without a sub. Downfiring sub is not necessarily bad. Have you tried turning up the crossover on the Monoprice as suggested and playing with the levels? ...owned a pair of 698 and is another "bass head". He could give an honest opinion on the bass performance of the 698

Thank you, Eppie for the good info!!
Everyone is right - I'm looking for distinct bass not extremely deep bass. (Nothing I listen to goes down to 35HZ-55HZ.)
I still haven't decided what the hell to do.
I experimented with volume and LPF on the Monoprice sub and didn't hear any great differences (and it all sounded muddy to me) so I left LPF at 60HZ and volume slightly above halfway. If I get a good crossover for the Monoprice sub will the sound improve at all? (JBL110 are 8' apart (toed-in and 1' above the floor) and Monoprice sub is in-between them all a few ft from the back wall). And I guess I really need to get rid of my JBL110s because they are only 75W even though they satisfy me with excellent vocals/highs and very good distinct midrange, imo.
I'm not convinced 2.5-way JBL Studio 680 w/6.5 woofers will give me distinct bass because my B&W tower speakers w/6.5 dual woofers gave me NO bass whatsoever.
I think JBL 698 (6 ohms, 250W max) has 6" midrange and 8" dual woofers and may be too many woofers for my room and not sure if I can afford them at $850 each (Crutchfield). I'm sure I could find them much cheaper on ebay. I would consider them because I enjoy loud music. And I'd have to get a new amp for these.
JBL Studio 690 has dual 8" woofers (6 ohms, 250W max) and I can afford them. They also might be too big for my room though. I'd have to get a new amp that accommodates 6 ohm speakers and more power and I have no idea what amps to look at. (My Yamaha amp is 8 ohms.)
Would the Cerwin Vega XLS Tower Speakers (200W Peak) w/8" dual or 10" dual Cast Frame High Excursion Woofers (w/6.5" Woofer Fiber Cone, 1" Soft Dome Tweeter w/Ferro Fluid) be too big for my room? They are less than $500 each and every review says they sound great with rock music.
I also read good reviews about SVS Ultra Evolution (6 ohms, 20-150W), Prime (8 ohms, 25-150W) and Ultra (8 ohms, 50-125W) Bookshelf Speakers. They all have 6.5" woofers and are affordable. I'd have to add a good sub too I guess (maybe 8" or 10") . And get a new more powerful amp (and to accomodate 6 ohm speakers for the Ultra Evolution). A good bookshelf speaker might be able to fill up my room, imo.

 

[Danzilla31]

@ifsixwasnin9 I believe the 690 is 2.5 way design. I bet they would work great with your existing Yamaha. (Forum member @Danzilla31 owned a pair of 698 and is another "bass head". He could give an honest opinion on the bass performance of the 698.) It is very good value for the money as it uses some technology from the higher end JBL HDI line and looks very similar. You might find it interesting that TLS Guy thinks that the 2.5 way design of the 690 is better than the 3 way design of the 698, and the 690 is $100 cheaper.

While your Yamaha does not have bass management, it does have bass, treble and loudness which a lot of modern gear lacks. Something with bass management and room correction software also often requires a TV to navigate the menus, so if you want bass management without video support the choices get limited. If you're thinking of upgrading your amp later I suggest you get some recommendations here on the forums.

Downfiring sub is not necessarily bad. My first sub was downfiring and my current one fires forward. Have you tried turning up the crossover on the Monoprice as suggested and playing with the levels?

If you sell the Monoprice, you may find something like the 690 would work fine without a sub. JBL rates the 690 down to 36Hz so it's a pretty full range speaker. If you still want a sub I would state your budget and get opinions here. There are fewer options available at the cheaper end of the spectrum but there are some decent performing subs that don't cost a fortune. The really good ones start at about $800 like the RSL Speedwoofer 12s. Here is an article on subs in the $500 range:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/best-500-subwoofers-2023
Erin's Audio Corner looked at some cheaper subs a couple of years ago (in the $250 range):

Given the age of your current JBL speakers, though, I would recommend considering an upgrade. TLS Guy is one of the most experienced with vintage gear and his analysis is usually spot on. If you're patient, JBL is known to have some really good discounts on occasion so you might find a pair on sale.

Eppie before I can give any suggestions I coul

@ifsixwasnin9 I believe the 690 is 2.5 way design. I bet they would work great with your existing Yamaha. (Forum member @Danzilla31 owned a pair of 698 and is another "bass head". He could give an honest opinion on the bass performance of the 698.) It is very good value for the money as it uses some technology from the higher end JBL HDI line and looks very similar. You might find it interesting that TLS Guy thinks that the 2.5 way design of the 690 is better than the 3 way design of the 698, and the 690 is $100 cheaper.

While your Yamaha does not have bass management, it does have bass, treble and loudness which a lot of modern gear lacks. Something with bass management and room correction software also often requires a TV to navigate the menus, so if you want bass management without video support the choices get limited. If you're thinking of upgrading your amp later I suggest you get some recommendations here on the forums.

Downfiring sub is not necessarily bad. My first sub was downfiring and my current one fires forward. Have you tried turning up the crossover on the Monoprice as suggested and playing with the levels?

If you sell the Monoprice, you may find something like the 690 would work fine without a sub. JBL rates the 690 down to 36Hz so it's a pretty full range speaker. If you still want a sub I would state your budget and get opinions here. There are fewer options available at the cheaper end of the spectrum but there are some decent performing subs that don't cost a fortune. The really good ones start at about $800 like the RSL Speedwoofer 12s. Here is an article on subs in the $500 range:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/best-500-subwoofers-2023
Erin's Audio Corner looked at some cheaper subs a couple of years ago (in the $250 range):

Given the age of your current JBL speakers, though, I would recommend considering an upgrade. TLS Guy is one of the most experienced with vintage gear and his analysis is usually spot on. If you're patient, JBL is known to have some really good discounts on occasion so you might find a pair on sale.

Eppie before I give any suggestions I could use your help and everyone else in this thread

Their is a lot of information maybe you could help me clarify

What are the OP's actual speakers?

Is this a desktop setup?
Living room or bedroom?

How far back is the OP sitting? He loves music so I'm assuming this is a 100% music setup correct? So he's looking at a 2.0 or 2.1 setup?

What Yamaha Reciever is he using and does it have bass management? Does it have a dedicated LFE out for the sub?

 

[Danzilla31]

Thank you, Eppie for the good info!!
Everyone is right - I'm looking for distinct bass not extremely deep bass. (Nothing I listen to goes down to 35HZ-55HZ.)
I still haven't decided what the hell to do.
I experimented with volume and LPF on the Monoprice sub and didn't hear any great differences (and it all sounded muddy to me) so I left LPF at 60HZ and volume slightly above halfway. If I get a good crossover for the Monoprice sub will the sound improve at all? (JBL110 are 8' apart (toed-in and 1' above the floor) and Monoprice sub is in-between them all a few ft from the back wall). And I guess I really need to get rid of my JBL110s because they are only 75W even though they satisfy me with excellent vocals/highs and very good distinct midrange, imo.
I'm not convinced 2.5-way JBL Studio 680 w/6.5 woofers will give me distinct bass because my B&W tower speakers w/6.5 dual woofers gave me NO bass whatsoever.
I think JBL 698 (6 ohms, 250W max) has 6" midrange and 8" dual woofers and may be too many woofers for my room and not sure if I can afford them at $850 each (Crutchfield). I'm sure I could find them much cheaper on ebay. I would consider them because I enjoy loud music. And I'd have to get a new amp for these.
JBL Studio 690 has dual 8" woofers (6 ohms, 250W max) and I can afford them. They also might be too big for my room though. I'd have to get a new amp that accommodates 6 ohm speakers and more power and I have no idea what amps to look at. (My Yamaha amp is 8 ohms.)
Would the Cerwin Vega XLS Tower Speakers (200W Peak) w/8" dual or 10" dual Cast Frame High Excursion Woofers (w/6.5" Woofer Fiber Cone, 1" Soft Dome Tweeter w/Ferro Fluid) be too big for my room? They are less than $500 each and every review says they sound great with rock music.
I also read good reviews about SVS Ultra Evolution (6 ohms, 20-150W), Prime (8 ohms, 25-150W) and Ultra (8 ohms, 50-125W) Bookshelf Speakers. They all have 6.5" woofers and are affordable. I'd have to add a good sub too I guess (maybe 8" or 10") . And get a new more powerful amp (and to accomodate 6 ohm speakers for the Ultra Evolution). A good bookshelf speaker might be able to fill up my room, imo.

Let's slow this down a bit.

Don't want you to spend more money then you need to

Can you post pics of your current room setup? The file sizer for phones in this forum is limited so no worries if you can't

Can you or someone send me a link of what speakers you are using?

How do you use this system? Is it music only? Is it in the bedroom at a desktop or in the living room?

How far back do you sit?

 

[Danzilla31]

@ifsixwasnin9 I believe the 690 is 2.5 way design. I bet they would work great with your existing Yamaha. (Forum member @Danzilla31 owned a pair of 698 and is another "bass head". He could give an honest opinion on the bass performance of the 698.) It is very good value for the money as it uses some technology from the higher end JBL HDI line and looks very similar. You might find it interesting that TLS Guy thinks that the 2.5 way design of the 690 is better than the 3 way design of the 698, and the 690 is $100 cheaper.

While your Yamaha does not have bass management, it does have bass, treble and loudness which a lot of modern gear lacks. Something with bass management and room correction software also often requires a TV to navigate the menus, so if you want bass management without video support the choices get limited. If you're thinking of upgrading your amp later I suggest you get some recommendations here on the forums.

Downfiring sub is not necessarily bad. My first sub was downfiring and my current one fires forward. Have you tried turning up the crossover on the Monoprice as suggested and playing with the levels?

If you sell the Monoprice, you may find something like the 690 would work fine without a sub. JBL rates the 690 down to 36Hz so it's a pretty full range speaker. If you still want a sub I would state your budget and get opinions here. There are fewer options available at the cheaper end of the spectrum but there are some decent performing subs that don't cost a fortune. The really good ones start at about $800 like the RSL Speedwoofer 12s. Here is an article on subs in the $500 range:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/best-500-subwoofers-2023
Erin's Audio Corner looked at some cheaper subs a couple of years ago (in the $250 range):

Given the age of your current JBL speakers, though, I would recommend considering an upgrade. TLS Guy is one of the most experienced with vintage gear and his analysis is usually spot on. If you're patient, JBL is known to have some really good discounts on occasion so you might find a pair on sale.

Does the OP have the L-110 towers or L-110 bookshelves?

 

[Eppie]

Does the OP have the L-110 towers or L-110 bookshelves?

The large bookshelf from the '70s I believe. From the op:
"I bought a Monoprice 400W 12" sub (downfiring) and followed instructions to set it up. I have the volume of the sub turned to a little more than halfway and its low pass filter set to 60HZ. And sub is a few feet from the wall in-between the L110s in a room that is about 13 wide x 18 long x 7.5 high. The L110s are several feet from the wall and on stands about 1 ft above the floor.
The Monoprice sub is not well-defined at all, doesn't feel like it makes much of an improvement in the music and sounds very muddy. "
Yamaha AX-596 integrated amp. He was using it in combo with a Carver pre-amp but I instructed him to remove the Carver and just use the Yamaha. There is no bass management on the amp.

 

[Danzilla31]

The large bookshelf from the '70s I believe. From the op:
"I bought a Monoprice 400W 12" sub (downfiring) and followed instructions to set it up. I have the volume of the sub turned to a little more than halfway and its low pass filter set to 60HZ. And sub is a few feet from the wall in-between the L110s in a room that is about 13 wide x 18 long x 7.5 high. The L110s are several feet from the wall and on stands about 1 ft above the floor.
The Monoprice sub is not well-defined at all, doesn't feel like it makes much of an improvement in the music and sounds very muddy. "
Yamaha AX-596 integrated amp. He was using it in combo with a Carver pre-amp but I instructed him to remove the Carver and just use the Yamaha. There is no bass management on the amp.

But their is bass management on the Yamaha right?

 

[Eppie]

@ifsixwasnin9 You have some misconceptions about speaker ratings and design and power amp specs. I honestly think that you can benefit from some more education here before you start looking for new gear. I'll need a little more time to type up a reply...

 

[Danzilla31]

@ifsixwasnin9 You have some misconceptions about speaker ratings and design and power amp specs. I honestly think that you can benefit from some more education here before you start looking for new gear. I'll need a little more time to type up a reply...

Okay so if he's using this for music only in that room size and if he's using that Yamaha which does not appear to have a LFE out as a way to bass manage to the speakers I'd seriously recommend 2 options

Option 1. Sell the Carver sell the Yamaha buy a more modern 2 channel integrated amp (doesn't have to be brand new) that does have an actual lfe out and see if with proper bass management the OP can integrate those speakers and that sub. Those cheaper Monoprice subs are not bad but they do fall off quiet a bit before 80hz so integrating them to bookshelves can be a problem and it's not my favorite option

Option 2 my favorite option is to sell the sub sell those speakers sell one of the two integrated amps probably the Carver since he loves the Yamaha tone controls for the midrange and go with something like the JBL studio 690 in just a pure 2.0 setup since he loves music so much and it looks like a 100% music dedicated system. The studio 690 are like the 698: output monsters, highly efficient sp his Yamaha should run them just fine, and in my room which is a little bigger then his but not by much they were easily giving me extension down to 27hz. For music those speakers will give the OP all the bass he needs. Plus they are very neutral measuring speakers BUT are still very very dynamic and will sound awesome for rock.

Plus option #2 will be much much easier to implement for music just running a 2.0 speaker setup full range off his Yamaha and he can use the tone controls to tweak the towers to his listening tastes

Optiom.#2 is what I would do @Eppie

 

[Eppie]

I think the one thing not mentioned is what model Carver pre-amp he has. That would help determine whether he should add a separate amp to the Carver or just use the Yamaha or get a new integrated amp with bass management. Does Crutchfield accept returns on speakers? Would be nice if he could try the 690 with the option to return them.

 

[Danzilla31]

I think the one thing not mentioned is what model Carver pre-amp he has. That would help determine whether he should add a separate amp to the Carver or just use the Yamaha or get a new integrated amp with bass management. Does Crutchfield accept returns on speakers? Would be nice if he could try the 690 with the option to return them.

They do although I think you pay a shipping fee back. Although it's not much of one

 

[Eppie]

@ifsixwasnin9 People often make the mistake thinking that the power rating on a speaker relates to output. The power rating is the maximum continuous power that the speaker can handle. What determines a speaker's output level is a combination of max power handling and efficiency (sometimes termed sensitivity), with the efficiency being the important number. (Note that at moderate listening levels you are only using maybe 10W of power with the extra power in reserve for head room to handle peaks.)

A speaker with an efficiency of 95dB @2.83V at 1m (sometimes expressed as 1W at 1m) will have a much higher output than a speaker rated at 87dB. It takes double the power to increase volume by 3dB so a speaker that needs 50W to reach 87dB will need 100W to reach 90dB and 200W to reach 93dB. That speaker rated at 95dB efficiency might have power handling of only 75W, but since its efficiency is so high, it will have greater output than the speaker rated at 87dB even if the power rating of that speaker is 150W. So don't assume that a speaker with a higher power rating will always be louder.

I found the manual for your L110 here;
https://support.jbl.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Harman/default/dw6e7bb0e6/pdfs/L110om.pdf
The sensitivity is higher than I anticipated at about 90dB 1W 1m. The JBL 690 is rated at 90db 2.83V 1m so similar to your L110. It handles more continuous power though and I like the sound of JBL's compression drivers that they use in their horns.

I don't think the JBLs will be too big for the room. The L110 is 14.25" wide while the 690 is 11.8" and does not need a stand. While Cerwin Vega has long been associated with rock and roll speakers, I'm not familiar with their current line and I don't know if you'll get the nice mids that you like from the JBLs. I have heard the JBL HDI series which is very good and the 690 should be similar.

Another thing you can try with the L110 and other speakers is moving them closer to the wall. This creates boundary reinforcement and adds to bass, which can make up a little for speakers that roll off in the bottom end. Your sub can also be positioned against the wall; it does not have to be moved into the room. Good starting points for sub placement is at the 1/2 or 1/4 points along a wall or in the corner. I still think the 60Hz crossover is too low.

As to your amp, I found the Yamaha manual here:
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/319722/AX-596.pdf
While it is rated at 100W into 8 ohms, note that the manual also lists Dynamic Power at 8/6/4/2 ohms at 140/170/220/290W and also DIN Standard Power 4 ohms at 155W. That is usually an indication that your amp can handle loads below 8 ohms so I think that amp would handle the 6 ohm JBL 690 just fine. I would concentrate on better speakers and worry about power later.