Marantz 50 vs Denon avr-x6700h

[dlaloum]

What is MRC?

From that Audyssey link:

Midrange compensation is an intentional dip in the 2 kHz region where the vast majority of tweeter-to-midrange crossovers are. In that region the tweeter is at the low end of its range and the midrange at the high end of its range and the directivity of the speaker goes through major changes. We found that if that region is equalized to flat, the change in direct to reflected ratio that happens because of the directivity variations causes voices to sound harsh (among other things). So, we have this implemented in the Audyssey target curve. With MultEQ Pro you can choose to turn it off, but we don't recommend it. This notion was observed 40 years ago by BBC speaker designers in their studio monitors. They designed their speakers with this "BBC dip" intentionally in the speaker response.

The thing to keep in mind - the MRC makes an assumption about your speakers, about the crossover and about the directivity etc...
This may or may not apply to your speakers - the better your speakers are, the less likely it is to be applicable.
It definitely caused a degradation in sound with my speakers, and being an early version of Audyssey (circa 2015, XT32) there was no mechanism to turn it off, without buying the US$1000 "pro kit" and then a licence to run "pro".

I suspect that if it wasn't for that "feature" I would still be in the Audyssey camp, instead of having jumped ship to Dirac!

 

[James123]

Just git the receiver. Connected everything like it was on the onkyo and when I started doing the 8 position withthe mic, no sound at rear back speakers after and the trigger switched off my amp.
What could be the fault
How do you factory reset the unit

 

[PENG]

Just git the receiver. Connected everything like it was on the onkyo and when I started doing the 8 position withthe mic, no sound at rear back speakers after and the trigger switched off my amp.
What could be the fault
How do you factory reset the unit

It is in the owner's manual:

You are using the $20 MultEQ Editor App right?
If not, it may be better to not run Audyssey, or not use it until you get the app.

 

[James123]

Thanks it worked after that.
I'm not using the app. I wanted to run the receiver settings as is as preset 1

Preset 2 will be the app. Which I plan to do throughout the week.

Will have to rerun preset 1 again as the two channels need to go back the the 5ch amp

 

[PENG]

Thanks it worked after that.
I'm not using the app. I wanted to run the receiver settings as is as preset 1

Preset 2 will be the app. Which I plan to do throughout the week.

Will have to rerun preset 1 again as the two channels need to go back the the 5ch amp

I know most people just trust their ears, but I also know if they checked with what a mic hear (they of course would hear differently, that's another story obviously), they would likely be surprised. Since you use a minidsp, you must have a mic and might have used REW. I have been playing around with my $550 Denon AVR bought when Denon went on sale a couple weeks ago and below is quick comparison of the results achieved by running Audyssey XT and Dirac Live with Bass Control just once, without any tweaks at all.

As expected, DLBC definitely did better, though I know if I spend hours on tweaking, Audyssey, yes, even just the XT version, could come close, in the bass range (10-200 Hz) anyway.

 

[James123]

I know most people just trust their ears, but I also know if they checked with what a mic hear (they of course would hear differently, that's another story obviously), they would likely be surprised. Since you use a minidsp, you must have a mic and might have used REW. I have been playing around with my $550 Denon AVR bought when Denon went on sale a couple weeks ago and below is quick comparison of the results achieved by running Audyssey XT and Dirac Live with Bass Control just once, without any tweaks at all.

As expected, DLBC definitely did better, though I know if I spend hours on tweaking, Audyssey, yes, even just the XT version, could come close, in the bass range (10-200 Hz) anyway.




View attachment 67589

Thanks

Yes when I used the mini dsp I liked it alot. I wanted to get the full dirac but $800 is alot.

Wanted it because the tone of my surrounds are not the same

 

[PENG]

Thanks

Yes when I used the mini dsp I liked it alot. I wanted to get the full dirac but $800 is alot.

Wanted it because the tone of my surrounds are not the same

Fyi it may on on sale for 30% off soon if not now.

 

[James123]

Fyi it may on on sale for 30% off soon if not now.

When do they normally have a sale, can you set an alert?

 

[James123]

It is in the owner's manual:

You are using the $20 MultEQ Editor App right?
If not, it may be better to not run Audyssey, or not use it until you get the app.

View attachment 67581

BTW it's 6$ more at the istore than google play store.

 

[PENG]

When do they normally have a sale, can you set an alert?

I have no been getting any alert so far, but was aware of the sales do I did get my 30% off. Currently it is offered for the Desktop suite only, but you can bet that the avr/avp versions deals must be coming soon.

Dirac Live Room Correction Suite – Dirac

Such 30% off deals for AVRs/AVPs have been offered at least twice in the past 1 year that I can recall, once for the Black Friday deal and other was around last Christmas/New Year, here's once example:

[Dirac] [Black Friday] Dirac Live Room Correction and Live Bass Control Licenses now 30% off (Denon & Marantz update) - RedFlagDeals.com Forums

 

[PENG]

You don't have to get the bass control right away because D+M has upgraded the bass management such that even without the BC license, you can do the basic management that includes setting crossovers that you cannot do previously with the bass $349 ($244 if the 30% off deal is on) full range license.

Unlike Anthem's, Dirac Live Bass control does work very well, though again, now that you can set crossovers without it, you can probably expect great results even with just the $349 version. In fact, I am not sure if the $499 bass control license is worth it. Surely you would get prettier graphs, but I doubt it would be audibly better as such.

See that with bass control active, from 25 to 100 Hz it looks almost like a straight flat line. That's for my bookshelf DIY speakers with 1 cheap 8 inch failed Energy subwoofer now powered with a very cheap $80 class D amp. If you use 2 or more subs, expect better results.

 

[James123]

Orange was with 5subs on the old receiver with mini dsp
Green is 4 subs on the Denon

I need to find my notes I can't remember what spl levels and microphone levels I used when I calibrated previously.

 

[PENG]

View attachment 67609View attachment 67610

Orange was with 5subs on the old receiver with mini dsp
Green is 4 subs on the Denon

I need to find my notes I can't remember what spl levels and microphone levels I used when I calibrated previously.

Hard to compare as the graphs have different scales. Overall, I would say the minidsp (which model?) did not bring audible benefits to the table based on the two graphs you provided. With the App, especially if you are willing to spend a few hours using the 3rd UIs (freeware), you can improve the response a lot quite easily, without bothering hooking up the minidsp.

Without tweaks, you can expect +/- 5 dB 20-200 Hz reasonably easy, and with some tweaks, you could get +/- 3 dB to +/- 1.0 dB (1/12 smoothing), depending on how much time you have. There is no way any minidsp could approach such smoothness, unless you get the one with DLBC on it (I doubt they are compatible with the BC license though, but not 100% sure).

Below is one that shows how Audyssey, with the App did for me, it approaches a flat line from 20-150 Hz at the mmp, but obviously not as good in the 9 position average FR below, still within +/-1.5 dB 20-120 Hz, 1/12 smoothing:

That's why I had my 2X4HD back in the box and will sell it for $100, or less but to Torontonian only lol...

 

[James123]

Thanks
I have the Mini DSP DDRC-24 which came with dirac.

I can't recall what smoothing I had as I did this in late 2018 early 2019 but I had a notepad with the settings I can't seem to find as yet.

Will try the app as I don't get that chest slam any more and something just doesn't sound right during heavy bass scenes

I also noticed the receiver set my front speakers to full range, centre to 40 and the rest to 60-80.

Although the fronts can play down to 30hz I always set them to crossover at 80hz.

Maybe that's the issue.
Will try the app on Saturday

 

[PENG]

Thanks
I have the Mini DSP DDRC-24 which came with dirac.

I can't recall what smoothing I had as I did this in late 2018 early 2019 but I had a notepad with the settings I can't seem to find as yet.

Will try the app as I don't get that chest slam any more and something just doesn't sound right during heavy bass scenes

I also noticed the receiver set my front speakers to full range, centre to 40 and the rest to 60-80.

Although the fronts can play down to 30hz I always set them to crossover at 80hz.

Maybe that's the issue.
Will try the app on Saturday

Audyssey's default target curve tend to remove room gains, and is flat in the deep bass range. It won't be too bad if you keep DEQ on, but most people like to put a bass tilt, you must have seen such target curves right?

 

[James123]

Audyssey's default target curve tend to remove room gains, and is flat in the deep bass range. It won't be too bad if you keep DEQ on, but most people like to put a bass tilt, you must have seen such target curves right?

I think I was using the Harmon curve +10db.

 

[James123]

I did not like deq when playing it loud watching dune 2

 

[lovinthehd]

I did not like deq when playing it loud watching dune 2

What volume setting?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I did not like deq when playing it loud watching dune 2

HD asked a good question since its effects are reduced as volume goes up. FWIW, I don’t like deq st all. It raises surround and rear top volumes too.

This is what dEQ looks like on paper.

 

[lovinthehd]

HD asked a good question since its effects are reduced as volume goes up. FWIW, I don’t like deq st all. It raises surround and rear top volumes too.

This is what dEQ looks like on paper.

Then there's what you can do with Reference Level Offset, too.