LED Household light bulbs

ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
It's not a matter of high vs low quality bulbs- not all bulbs are designed for leading edge or trailing edge attenuation. The dimmer's specs should indicate how it works- lighting designers need to know this and it translates directly to consumers but we don't have people designing our lighting in most cases. All manufacturers have technical info for determining the best match.
This is the Dimmer we installed.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
This is the Dimmer we installed.
You wrote "4 spots on a track in our living room also use them while the other 10 (on a different switch) are standard LEDs on a Lutron Dimmer." in post #37- what bulbs are you using?

More than one dimmer like this? Are you also using any incandescent bulbs on the same switch?

I used a Lutron in the same stairwell that flickers and wanted a timer in addition to a dimmer- that didn't work because the dimmer needed a slight draw, which the dimmer didn't provide- this was before bulbs and dimmers that can be controlled with an app without a hub or master controller (Radio RA, Radio Ra II or Caseta), or the variants from LeGrande, Leviton, etc.

Maybe the Lutron site has info about the bulbs that work best.

BTW- if you use these dimmers (which are definitely not inexpensive) with incandescent bulbs, pay attention to the Wattage of the bulbs and if more than two dimmers are in the same junction box, you would need to de-rate the Wattage load because the Aluminum fins need to be removed to get them to fit a standard Decora wall plate- the fins are used as heat sinks.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
You wrote "4 spots on a track in our living room also use them while the other 10 (on a different switch) are standard LEDs on a Lutron Dimmer." in post #37- what bulbs are you using?
One non-dimmed switch has 4 Hue Spots. A separate Switch is a Lutron Dimmer with 2 a-type bulbs (unknown brand) and 8 dimmable Feit MR Spots with GU10 base.
More than one dimmer like this? Are you also using any incandescent bulbs on the same switch?
I have 3 of these installed in single locations: the above, Dinette with a candelabra, and kitchen for 8 LED Pots which I linked above.
I have no incandescent or CFL bulbs left installed in the house... at least none that I know of, but definitely not on these dimmers.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
@highfigh
you got me thinking so I pulled the two A-type bulbs and they were older Utilitech bulbs not meant to be used on a dimmer. They are now replaced with some dimmable Feit bulbs I happened to have at hand.
I don't even remember when I installed these. They may have been part of the first round. These are the old design LEDs with Heatsink fins wrapping the base. My guess would be 5-8+ years old.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
My dimmable bulb isn't flickering as much at full power, but still annoying. They're Feits but think I'll go back to incandescents in that fixture....
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
You wrote "4 spots on a track in our living room also use them while the other 10 (on a different switch) are standard LEDs on a Lutron Dimmer." in post #37- what bulbs are you using?

More than one dimmer like this? Are you also using any incandescent bulbs on the same switch?

I used a Lutron in the same stairwell that flickers and wanted a timer in addition to a dimmer- that didn't work because the dimmer needed a slight draw, which the dimmer didn't provide- this was before bulbs and dimmers that can be controlled with an app without a hub or master controller (Radio RA, Radio Ra II or Caseta), or the variants from LeGrande, Leviton, etc.

Maybe the Lutron site has info about the bulbs that work best.

BTW- if you use these dimmers (which are definitely not inexpensive) with incandescent bulbs, pay attention to the Wattage of the bulbs and if more than two dimmers are in the same junction box, you would need to de-rate the Wattage load because the Aluminum fins need to be removed to get them to fit a standard Decora wall plate- the fins are used as heat sinks.
You are right, dimmers in general are not simple at all. When I did our lake remodel in 2005 to 2006 I used dimmers with incandescent bulbs. Boy, did I get an education about dimmers in a hurry. Major issues through dumb ignorance, and a big re-education.

Then when I converted the home to LED, I got a somewhat extended education, but I was primed by my first encounter.

When we built out home here in 2019, I can say I was armed with a fount of knowledge about the problems. So I was able to guide the electricians and builders to engineer it right. The electricians in the end just asked me to order the products. I am glad to report, that experience in the world of hard knocks allowed for the design of a system that has worked really well and been reliable.

In all this, I have to give a shout out to the engineers at Lutron, who went out of their way in their guidance and very much assiated my education in a selfless patient way.

So anyone who thinks it is a slam dunk to install lighting in a high end home, especially if it also has complex AV equipment, then you need to think again and again. If you don't do your homework you will get lost in the weeds and have a poorly working system and likely RF interference issues.

One issue I should mention that we did have with this home was one that was not my fault, but I should mention this, if you are having trouble with dimmers causing flickering.

Light dimmers do not like being on the same circuit. If they are then flickering and blatant flashing can occur.

I specified all dimmers be on their own circuit. In our family room the dimmer is on the opposite side of the same wall to one of the dimmers or the staircase lights.

If both dimmers were active, then we had a bad flickering issue. So I asked the electrician if he had separated the circuits. He confessed he had not, as he could not see the point of running two lines back to the panel when the dimmers were opposite each other. Anyhow I made him go up into the roof space and run another wire back to the panel. Problem solved and a learning issue for that electrician.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
You are right, dimmers in general are not simple at all. When I did our lake remodel in 2005 to 2006 I used dimmers with incandescent bulbs. Boy, did I get an education about dimmers in a hurry. Major issues through dumb ignorance, and a big re-education.

Then when I converted the home to LED, I got a somewhat extended education, but I was primed by my first encounter.

When we built out home here in 2019, I can say I was armed with a fount of knowledge about the problems. So I was able to guide the electricians and builders to engineer it right. The electricians in the end just asked me to order the products. I am glad to report, that experience in the world of hard knocks allowed for the design of a system that has worked really well and been reliable.

In all this, I have to give a shout out to the engineers at Lutron, who went out of their way in their guidance and very much assiated my education in a selfless patient way.

So anyone who thinks it is a slam dunk to install lighting in a high end home, especially if it also has complex AV equipment, then you need to think again and again. If you don't do your homework you will get lost in the weeds and have a poorly working system and likely RF interference issues.

One issue I should mention that we did have with this home was one that was not my fault, but I should mention this, if you are having trouble with dimmers causing flickering.

Light dimmers do not like being on the same circuit. If they are then flickering and blatant flashing can occur.

I specified all dimmers be on their own circuit. In our family room the dimmer is on the opposite side of the same wall to one of the dimmers or the staircase lights.

If both dimmers were active, then we had a bad flickering issue. So I asked the electrician if he had separated the circuits. He confessed he had not, as he could not see the point of running two lines back to the panel when the dimmers were opposite each other. Anyhow I made him go up into the roof space and run another wire back to the panel. Problem solved and a learning issue for that electrician.
Dimmers can live in the same J-box, but they need to be wired to the loads correctly, have the correct loads and be allowed to dissipate heat well enough to have a long, happy life.

I worked for a custom integration company and one of the employees was a lighting engineer. Lutron, specifically, requires that these designers be certified and trained at their facility in Pennsylvania- these sessions usually take a minimum of three days. We did one house where the back hall had a row of 12 switches and dimmers- these could have been controlled by RadioRa (or some variant, Control4 or Crestron, etc), but for some reason (cheapness), that didn't happen. This guy was the GM of a large auto dealership group, but NOOOOOO!, he just had to tell us how to do our jobs.

People complain about the cost of design services, but they don't usually know what goes into it- it's like the tale of someone who was called to make a repair, they looked and checked a few things and they did one thing that took only a few minutes. The customer complained that it was a lot of money for a few minutes of work and the person who did the repair said "The repair took a few minutes, but it took 45 years to reach the point where I knew what was needed in order to do it so quickly".

If I ever need help with lighting, I call a friend, who has worked as a lighting designer on the custom integration side and as a regional lighting engineer for Lutron and LeGrande, assisting in the process of large-scale system designs and when things don't go well, usually because someone isn't up to speed for such projects.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
My dimmable bulb isn't flickering as much at full power, but still annoying. They're Feits but think I'll go back to incandescents in that fixture....
Is it a Feit that can be controlled by an app AND is on a dimmer? I don't think that will work correctly. I would look for different bulbs.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Is it a Feit that can be controlled by an app AND is on a dimmer? I don't think that will work correctly. I would look for different bulbs.
No, just basic dimmable bulbs from Feit....don't have any app controlled ones but could be interesting down the line....
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
No, just basic dimmable bulbs from Feit....don't have any app controlled ones but could be interesting down the line....
I have one Feit bulb that's controlled by an app- it's not my favorite. Any color can be selected, but finding it isn't easy. It uses a similar circle with fingertip control but so far, I haven't been able to get it right (after trying for a whopping 3 minutes). As I posted before, I really like the color of Halogen, but.....
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I've been using LED bulbs for about 8 years or so, and I've found that the ones that get hot are the ones that fail.

What I don't like about them is they dim slower than the incandescent versions.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I've been using LED bulbs for about 8 years or so, and I've found that the ones that get hot are the ones that fail.

What I don't like about them is they dim slower than the incandescent versions.
They should not get hot. If they do, then there is something seriously wrong with them. My LED bulbs dim as fast as the incandescent ones used to.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
They should not get hot. If they do, then there is something seriously wrong with them. My LED bulbs dim as fast as the incandescent ones used to.
Some get hot on the base of the bulb, but those fail fast and I haven't purchased any of that brand in a long time.

I'll have to try different LED bulbs in my theater, but the last time I tried some, they had some quirks. I use similar bulbs in the rest of my house and have no problems.

The theater has been unused for a bit since I'm in the middle of updating it. I'll try again once the other work is done.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I've been using LED bulbs for about 8 years or so, and I've found that the ones that get hot are the ones that fail.

What I don't like about them is they dim slower than the incandescent versions.
LED lights that become hot- so much for saving energy.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Some get hot on the base of the bulb, but those fail fast and I haven't purchased any of that brand in a long time.

I'll have to try different LED bulbs in my theater, but the last time I tried some, they had some quirks. I use similar bulbs in the rest of my house and have no problems.

The theater has been unused for a bit since I'm in the middle of updating it. I'll try again once the other work is done.
Sounds like frying chips to me, but not the tasty kind!
 
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