It worth it to add these to denon 3700?

[capitalgun]

So I recently picked up the following for a steal

Denon 3700h
Triad am s8 audio matrix
Origin a1250 12 channel amp
Totem thunder sub
Sannus rack

Looking to run this in my store just not completely sure how to run it all together or if its worth it. Have multiple klipsch rp speakers scattered about. Store is only about 1500 sq ft. For instance can i bridge the amp (or use it how it is) for any speakers other then LCR or would there not be an improvment. I also would like zone out the outside front and back of store with outdoor speakers. Should i use matrix switch or just use the receivers standard zone outs? Just to complicate my already incoherent thread some more, would i see any improvment adding that amp to my 4700 at home? Not so crazy about it.

Thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No.

 

[capitalgun]

Simple enough , thanks

 

[lovinthehd]

Simple enough , thanks

I was thinking of a more detailed response but think ADTG just about nailed it. What impedance is the bridged amp rated for?

 

[capitalgun]

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]4; 8 Ohms
Id love a more detailed response if you feel like it[/COLOR]

 

[capitalgun]

So if i used amp to run all my speakers on my home theater setup with 4700 other than lcr would i not see an improvment? This way the 4700 amp would be strickly for the lcr?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So if i used amp to run all my speakers on my home theater setup with 4700 other than lcr would i not see an improvment? This way the 4700 amp would be strickly for the lcr?

Well it depends. If you’re really pushing the system, you could see an increase in headroom. But a 12x35w doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that would do that. Not sure what the main system is, but in most cases the 4700 is very capable.
Personally I think there’s too much weight put on the idea of unloading the AVR of its duties. It’s mostly academic and doesn’t offer any real benefit, most of the time.
So no, I don’t see the 1250 being beneficial. Unless there’s something odd about the system.

 

[Eppie]

How could a 35W per channel amp improve things over the 125W per channel the 4700H has? Even if you could bridge the outputs of the Origin, 70W is barely 2/3 of the power output that the Denon is capable of. To see an improvement in headroom you need to be looking at amps in the 200W range or better.

 

[Eppie]

The owners manual for the 3700H is what you need to refer to:
https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/shop-av-receivers/avr-x3700h/300018-new.html

The 3700H has 9 channels of amplification. You can connect up to 9 channels in the main zone, or 7 channels in the main zone and 2 channels in zone 2. You can also connect external amplifiers to the pre-amp out jacks for additional channels of amplification. If you set the surround mode to "Multi Ch Stereo" it will output a stereo signal to all speakers at the same level.

Zone 2 could allow separate control (source and volume) for outdoor speakers, but for front and back of the location with more than 2 speakers you would need to wire them in such a way that the impedance on each channel stays above 8 ohms.

With Zone 2, you also need careful consideration of your source material. Many AVRs will not supply certain signals (digital or analogue) to both zones, so check that part of the manual.

Using an AVR for a business location is not generally recommended. Speaker wire runs can very long and you need a separate wire for every speaker. Distributed audio systems use a low voltage (70 volt systems in North America) that can daisy chain to each speaker. These also require 70V speakers to work with, so you can not use the Klipsch for such a system. The advantage is that you can create zones and add volume controls to each zone to level match the sound level throughout the space. That would be very difficult with an AVR, although there is some level adjustment within the AVR setup menu. You would probably want a TV or monitor attached to the AVR to help with setup and adjustment, although most of the settings may be available through the phone app.

 

[capitalgun]

How could a 35W per channel amp improve things over the 125W per channel the 4700H has? Even if you could bridge the outputs of the Origin, 70W is barely 2/3 of the power output that the Denon is capable of. To see an improvement in headroom you need to be looking at amps in the 200W range or better.

Its 50watt per so i thought it would be 90 bridged?

 

[capitalgun]

Its 50watt per so i thought it would be 90 bridged?

And doesnt the denon drasticly reduce on 7 speakers?

 

[capitalgun]

The owners manual for the 3700H is what you need to refer to:
https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/shop-av-receivers/avr-x3700h/300018-new.html

The 3700H has 9 channels of amplification. You can connect up to 9 channels in the main zone, or 7 channels in the main zone and 2 channels in zone 2. You can also connect external amplifiers to the pre-amp out jacks for additional channels of amplification. If you set the surround mode to "Multi Ch Stereo" it will output a stereo signal to all speakers at the same level.

Zone 2 could allow separate control (source and volume) for outdoor speakers, but for front and back of the location with more than 2 speakers you would need to wire them in such a way that the impedance on each channel stays above 8 ohms.

With Zone 2, you also need careful consideration of your source material. Many AVRs will not supply certain signals (digital or analogue) to both zones, so check that part of the manual.

Using an AVR for a business location is not generally recommended. Speaker wire runs can very long and you need a separate wire for every speaker. Distributed audio systems use a low voltage (70 volt systems in North America) that can daisy chain to each speaker. These also require 70V speakers to work with, so you can not use the Klipsch for such a system. The advantage is that you can create zones and add volume controls to each zone to level match the sound level throughout the space. That would be very difficult with an AVR, although there is some level adjustment within the AVR setup menu. You would probably want a TV or monitor attached to the AVR to help with setup and adjustment, although most of the settings may be available through the phone app.

Yeah appreciate it but i believe i understood most of that already can you help me understand the point of a matrix switch ?

 

[capitalgun]

Yeah appreciate it but i believe i understood most of that already can you help me understand the point of a matrix switch ?

In lamens terms. I get the definition of it just not the point

 

[capitalgun]

Well it depends. If you’re really pushing the system, you could see an increase in headroom. But a 12x35w doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that would do that. Not sure what the main system is, but in most cases the 4700 is very capable.
Personally I think there’s too much weight put on the idea of unloading the AVR of its duties. It’s mostly academic and doesn’t offer any real benefit, most of the time.
So no, I don’t see the 1250 being beneficial. Unless there’s something odd about the system.

Thank you bro

 

[Eppie]

Yeah appreciate it but i believe i understood most of that already can you help me understand the point of a matrix switch ?

You can read the description here:
https://www.snapav.com/shop/en/snapav/triad-16-source--16-zone-audio-matrix-switch-ts-ams16-a
You have the 8 zone version.

It's basically an audio distribution system that accepts both analogue and digital inputs. It converts to analogue as necessary and feeds the source material to 8 different stereo (2-channel) zones. You could connect a streaming device to the Triad, feed the output to a set of amplifiers and run the speaker wires to different zones. This could be any combination of amps, whether four 2-channel amps or an 8 channel amp.

I don't know if the Triad has separate source control for different zones (like playing analogue 1 input on zones 1-4 output and digital input 1 to zones 5-8 output). You would need to find the manual or talk to an integrator with experience with these units. Maybe @BMXTRIX is familiar with them? That unit may also require a C4 Controller to function, so more research is needed.

 

[Eppie]

And doesn't the denon drasticly reduce on 7 speakers?

Does the Origin manual specifically state that outputs can be bridged? Either way, at best you might have similar power output which will not yield any additional head room. A lot of work for no real gain, to be honest.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm not sure how much you paid, but you basically got two very different systems and they shouldn't cross over (or at least not much).
The 3700 is great for a surround sound area. If you have proper surround sound you need to setup, then the 3700? Perfect!
The AMS and the 12 channel amplifier are all about stereo audio distribution. They can be bridged, but generally don't need to be, and not something I would do. But, can support up to 6 rooms (12 channels) of stereo audio in a space. The AMS itself, can send audio from up to 8 sources to up to 8 rooms total, but you still only have amplification for 6 rooms of stereo.

Here is the type of way that this type of equipment is used together...
So here we go... 24+ A/V Zones w/10 Sources | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

Yes, a controller unit is generally needed for the AMS of some sort. I haven't messed with one before, as I use Crestron's similar version, the BIPAD8 which is a 16x8 audio matrix. The important thing is the remote selection of audio sources to any zone, along with volume control. Super cool feature to have in a home or a larger business with multiple areas in it which may need it.

Heck, I set it up in a client's home where they could push a microphone to multiple areas of their choosing with the touch of a button. Then touch the button again and it would revert to playing whatever audio was going on. (He holds parties at his home from time to time)

So, I assume the 8x8 is also a pre-amp along with audio selector. The amp can drive the speakers across multiple zones accurately.
The 3700 is for a primary surround sound zone, like a theater space.
Nothing wrong with the rack or the subwoofer to have in the mix as well if it works for your setup.

 

[capitalgun]

Does the Origin manual specifically state that outputs can be bridged? Either way, at best you might have similar power output which will not yield any additional head room. A lot of work for no real gain, to be honest.

It looks like its specifically set up to allow it. Its fairly heavy amp, not that that means much. Not to keep prying at this but i listen to my set up (home not store) extremely loud. Would it help then, or atleast add a little longer to the denons life? Thanks

 

[capitalgun]

I'm not sure how much you paid, but you basically got two very different systems and they shouldn't cross over (or at least not much).
The 3700 is great for a surround sound area. If you have proper surround sound you need to setup, then the 3700? Perfect!
The AMS and the 12 channel amplifier are all about stereo audio distribution. They can be bridged, but generally don't need to be, and not something I would do. But, can support up to 6 rooms (12 channels) of stereo audio in a space. The AMS itself, can send audio from up to 8 sources to up to 8 rooms total, but you still only have amplification for 6 rooms of stereo.

Here is the type of way that this type of equipment is used together...
So here we go... 24+ A/V Zones w/10 Sources | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

Yes, a controller unit is generally needed for the AMS of some sort. I haven't messed with one before, as I use Crestron's similar version, the BIPAD8 which is a 16x8 audio matrix. The important thing is the remote selection of audio sources to any zone, along with volume control. Super cool feature to have in a home or a larger business with multiple areas in it which may need it.

Heck, I set it up in a client's home where they could push a microphone to multiple areas of their choosing with the touch of a button. Then touch the button again and it would revert to playing whatever audio was going on. (He holds parties at his home from time to time)

So, I assume the 8x8 is also a pre-amp along with audio selector. The amp can drive the speakers across multiple zones accurately.
The 3700 is for a primary surround sound zone, like a theater space.
Nothing wrong with the rack or the subwoofer to have in the mix as well if it works for your setup.

I paid 250$ for everything lol. I have two rel ht1205 i use with my 4700. The subwoofer seems to be an extremely well built sub, dont quote me on that tho. Is there even a way i could impelment it, and is less more with this? Bare with me please i do my best to try to learn all this, sometimes its almost a different language to me tho. And to complicate this even more here , one last thing. So i recently accquired an extremely large u shaped leather couch as it was perfect for my layout. In the bottoms of each seat where these little earthquakes. Not sure if your familiar ill attach photo. I have a ton of them. I understand the amp is for different zones but could i use it to power all of these separately from my receiver, and if so would that be recommended. I appreciate you helping me through all this

 

[BMXTRIX]

I paid 250$ for everything lol. I have two rel ht1205 i use with my 4700. The subwoofer seems to be an extremely well built sub, dont quote me on that tho. Is there even a way i could impelment it, and is less more with this? Bare with me please i do my best to try to learn all this, sometimes its almost a different language to me tho. And to complicate this even more here , one last thing. So i recently accquired an extremely large u shaped leather couch as it was perfect for my layout. In the bottoms of each seat where these little earthquakes. Not sure if your familiar ill attach photo. I have a ton of them. I understand the amp is for different zones but could i use it to power all of these separately from my receiver, and if so would that be recommended. I appreciate you helping me through all this

Those are generically called 'bass shakers'. They are a type of type of audio tactile transducer. You can take the subwoofer output of the 3700 and feed it into the LINE 1 input of the a1250 amplifier, and the amplifier can power them. Each transducer needs a separate wired connection back to the amplifier for best results. The 50 watts of power each channel of the amp offers should be plenty to drive those units, but read the specifications of them to double check things. Use a Y-cable out of the LFE/Subwoofer output of the 3700 to feed both left and right channels of IN 1 on the A2150. Then set the dip switched on the back of the A2150 so they are using IN 1. That way the subwoofer audio will be passed to the transducers properly. There are tons of wiring diagrams for bass shakers online, but not so many which I think show how I would do it in your setup.
DENON LFE OUT->RCA Y CABLE->A2150 IN 1 inputs
A2150->OUTPUT 1 LEFT->SPEAKER WIRE->BASS SHAKER #1
A2150->OUTPUT 1 RIGHT->SPEAKER WIRE->BASS SHAKER #2
A2150->OUTPUT 2 LEFT->SPEAKER WIRE->BASS SHAKER #3
etc.