Denon X3800H / Classe Audio CA-5200 - Ground Loop through RCA-cables?

[Hobolicious]

Good ones are expensive, cheap ones may degrade signal quality. You really should try the rca to xlr cables I link and see if they can do the trick. It is still possible there is something wrong with the Denon or the ca-5200, more likely the ca-5200 because the Denon is young and brand new.

Is that Jensen devices returnable with x number of days?

Do you by any change know if any of these RCA to XLR cables would work as well? The ones you listed are either not available locally (Monoprice) or extremely expensive per cable (80 USD per cable) and might be just a tad short. Here are a few I found locally:

- Cordial CFU 3 MC
- Roland RCC-10-RCXM
- Adam Hall K3TM
- There also seem to be some Klotz RCA to XLR (Supreme/Superior or AT-CM0300) cables available

As for the Jensen device I unfortunately can't seem to find any Norwegian stores selling these (I just remembered I came across a review of it on Audioholics when I was trying to research my issue).

 

[PENG]

I believe the Denon X6800H can run 11 speakers without external amplification, so it would run my 7.2.4 setup on its own (hence the "selling both the Denon X3800H and Classe Audio CA-5200").

I would sell the Classe amp and buy a 3 channel buckeye amp that offers 350 w 8 ohms, 500 W 4 ohms. Many Denon AVR users have done that and seem happy. You will gain space, save eenergy, and shed a lot of weight. Time to modernize!
.

 

[ban25]

Not true, it could do a lot, did you read the Hypex article that has been posted on ASR many times? The theory is sound.

I've not read the article, no. Do you have a link? I'm suspicious that a cable with two conductors will be any different from a cable with two conductors...

 

[ban25]

I would sell the Classe amp and buy a 3 channel buckeye amp that offers 350 w 8 ohms, 500 W 4 ohms. Many Denon AVR users have done that and seem happy. You will gain space, save eenergy, and shed a lot of weight. Time to modernize!
.

This ^^^^

 

[Hobolicious]

I would sell the Classe amp and buy a 3 channel buckeye amp that offers 350 w 8 ohms, 500 W 4 ohms. Many Denon AVR users have done that and seem happy. You will gain space, save eenergy, and shed a lot of weight. Time to modernize!
.

Hmm, I was really hoping to keep the Classe, but I see where you are coming from.

As for the Buckeye I don't think that is something that is available in Norway unfortunately. It also seems like it only has balanced inputs (XLR)?

Would I run the risk of getting a similar issue with a new power amplifier?

 

[ban25]

Hmm, I was really hoping to keep the Classe, but I see where you are coming from.

As for the Buckeye I don't think that is something that is available in Norway unfortunately. It also seems like it only has balanced inputs (XLR)?

Would I run the risk of getting a similar issue with a new power amplifier?

Can you potentially borrow another amp from a friend to try? Or from a local shop?

Otherwise, if you want a guaranteed fix, you'll need to replace the AVR with something that has full internal amplification for all of your channels, or balanced outputs for all your externally amplified channels.

 

[PENG]

Hmm, I was really hoping to keep the Classe, but I see where you are coming from.

As for the Buckeye I don't think that is something that is available in Norway unfortunately. It also seems like it only has balanced inputs (XLR)?

Would I run the risk of getting a similar issue with a new power amplifier?

He will ship it to you, i think, but just email him. You can also get one from a couple of European dealers such as Audiophonic. You don't need RCAs, just use RCA to XLR cables. I can send you some links when I get home tomorrow or Saturday. Classe amps are great but class AB amps are on tbe way out. I gave my Bryston amp away, and never look back.

Apollon is another good one.

Apollon NCx500ST Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Apollon NCx500ST stereo class D amplifier based on Hypex NCOREx NCx500 modules. It was kindly drop shipped from the member and costs 1,090.00€ (US $1,168) with standard opamp. While the case is stamped aluminum, it is a heavily customized one...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[PENG]

Can you potentially borrow another amp from a friend to try? Or from a local shop?

Otherwise, if you want a guaranteed fix, you'll need to replace the AVR with something that has full internal amplification for all of your channels, or balanced outputs for all your externally amplified channels.

I don't recall anyone on ASR who are using the Denon with buckeye or other XLR only amps reporting ground loop hum so far, have you?

 

[TLS Guy]

Could you explain this in layman's terms for me?

How exactly would I go about doing the first option? I assume what I have been trying to do with the speaker cable running between the two units (mounted behind a screw on each of them) is not really the way to do this. Will you have to do anything to the power plug of one of the units, and is this safe?

As for the other option, what do you mean by converting the pre out of the Denon to be balanced? I thought it was not possible to make the unbalanced RCA pre-outs balanced? What would an active convert be? Is this in combination with the "balanced cables"?

I would try this cable first.

This is the active option.

You will need a 230 volt to 15 volt power supply. You will need to disconnect the shields at the Classe end.

There seems to be an issue with the Classe ground and neutral. It is possible it was damaged by being able to have the live and neutral reversed in Norway. That really is not something that should be allowed in my view. Receptacles and plugs should be polarized and NOT reversible. I can be pretty sure the Classe was unlikely to have been designed for that eventuality.

 

[PENG]

Hmm, I was really hoping to keep the Classe, but I see where you are coming from.

As for the Buckeye I don't think that is something that is available in Norway unfortunately. It also seems like it only has balanced inputs (XLR)?

Would I run the risk of getting a similar issue with a new power amplifier?

Please read the following linked post, to see Hypex position on the use of property wired RCA to XLR interconnect:

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Have used ‘Design a cable’ for a number of cables and always had good quality and speedy service. Yes. Too bad the description of their RCA-XLR cable does not appear to be wired in a way that avoids all legacy pin 1 issues, and the cost is about double of Ghent's properly wired cable.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[ban25]

I don't recall anyone on ASR who are using the Denon with buckeye or other XLR only amps reporting ground loop hum so far, have you?

It would probably solve the problem, as in the issue is the Classe. However, the poster would need to contact Buckeye, place an order, wait 1-2 weeks for assembly, potentially another few weeks for shipping and time spent in customs, pay shipping and import duty, and if it doesn't work after all that, pay to ship it back. I think there are easier and faster solutions here.

 

[TLS Guy]

It would probably solve the problem, as in the issue is the Classe. However, the poster would need to contact Buckeye, place an order, wait 1-2 weeks for assembly, potentially another few weeks for shipping and time spent in customs, pay shipping and import duty, and if it doesn't work after all that, pay to ship it back. I think there are easier and faster solutions here.

If the OP can solder and make up cables, I'm sure he can solve it.

 

[PENG]

It would probably solve the problem, as in the issue is the Classe. However, the poster would need to contact Buckeye, place an order, wait 1-2 weeks for assembly, potentially another few weeks for shipping and time spent in customs, pay shipping and import duty, and if it doesn't work after all that, pay to ship it back. I think there are easier and faster solutions here.

Agree, Audiophonic or Apollon may be better for him. Audiophonic's typically include rca inputs, so he can use the rca interconnects he already have.

 

[Hobolicious]

Ordered a couple of these Cordial RCA to XLR cables to see if they make any difference. From their web site they should be wired correctly if the schematics are correct.

 

[highfigh]

So long as it's not done with a cheater plug

Ground Loops - Eliminating System Hum and Buzz

Got an annoying hum or buzz in your audio system? You likely have a ground loop. This article helps you diagnose the problem so it can be eliminated. Don't put up with hum. Read this article!

www.audioholics.com

The OP is in Norway- that adapter won't work and people need to stop calling that a 'cheater plug'- it's not made for disconnecting the ground, it's made to allow connecting grounded equipment to two prong outlets with the green tab used to secure it to the outlet. The tab or green wire on the adapter is connected to the ground pin and using it with some equipment makes the chassis electrically hot.

 

[PENG]

Ordered a couple of these Cordial RCA to XLR cables to see if they make any difference. From their web site they should be wired correctly if the schematics are correct.

@ban25 Is right, should try another amp just to see if the Denon might be the culprit too, highly unlikely but you never know.

You can buy a Fosi Audio V3 for well under $100, I have 2 of them, they actually sound as good as amy expensive amps I have owned. Hard to believe, but true, and If it is returnable, you can either return it after, or keep it for the surr back or something.

 

[Hobolicious]

@ban25 Is right, should try another amp just to see if the Denon might be the culprit too, highly unlikely but you never know.

You can buy a Fosi Audio V3 for well under $100, I have 2 of them, they actually sound as good as amy expensive amps I have owned. Hard to believe, but true, and If it is returnable, you can either return it after, or keep it for the surr back or something.

I will see what the next step will be after the outcome of the new cables arrive. I might just test a couple of those cheap RCA Ground Loop Isolators to see how they perform (so cheap it is worth a shot) if the new RCA to XLR cables don’t do the trick.

And potentially might consider selling both the Denon and Classe and get something like the Denon X6800H if I can’t figure out a reasonable solution and just skip external amplification. Also depends a bit on news about Dirac ART and which of the Xx800H receivers that end up supporting it (still hopeful the X3800H will).

 

[PENG]

I will see what the next step will be after the outcome of the new cables arrive. I might just test a couple of those cheap RCA Ground Loop Isolators to see how they perform (so cheap it is worth a shot) if the new RCA to XLR cables don’t do the trick.

And potentially might consider selling both the Denon and Classe and get something like the Denon X6800H if I can’t figure out a reasonable solution and just skip external amplification. Also depends a bit on news about Dirac ART and which of the Xx800H receivers that end up supporting it (still hopeful the X3800H will).

If the 6800 supports ART, then the 3800 will too, they have the exact same DSP ICs.

 

[TLS Guy]

I will see what the next step will be after the outcome of the new cables arrive. I might just test a couple of those cheap RCA Ground Loop Isolators to see how they perform (so cheap it is worth a shot) if the new RCA to XLR cables don’t do the trick.

And potentially might consider selling both the Denon and Classe and get something like the Denon X6800H if I can’t figure out a reasonable solution and just skip external amplification. Also depends a bit on news about Dirac ART and which of the Xx800H receivers that end up supporting it (still hopeful the X3800H will).

To make it work and solve your problem, you will have to open that XLR and break the connection on pin 1 to the case, otherwise you will not solve your problem.

 

[Hobolicious]

To make it work and solve your problem, you will have to open that XLR and break the connection on pin 1 to the case, otherwise you will not solve your problem.

Hmm, I must have missed that in the previous posts. What would this involve? Would I need any specific tools to do this?