Planning my home theater in a living room

[complexL9]

Hi,
I'm planning to move to another place and one of the motives of doing so is to plan a home theater in the living room.

The living room is 6x8 meters and is combined with a kitchen, my initial layout plan is attached:

The rectangles and diamonds are floor speakers, and circles are ceiling speakers.

From what I've googled/youtube'd my backs are too close, but I have to compromise here as I can't move them further away into the kitchen area.

Few questions:
1. Any general advice on how to easily improve this or avoid some obvious mistakes?
2. I'm considering Klipsch RP-8000F II as starting point for fronts and I need suggestions what would be best in this layout for center/sides/rears
3. My main pain point is ceiling, it is vaulted ceiling so I'm looking into pendant speakers, Klipsch has some options like IC-800-T but I don't have a clue if it fits with this setup, or how do I choose a good fit from other brand?
4. AVR recommendations?

 

[dolynick]

Have you considered dropping the front wides and going with one set of more centralized overhead heights?

There's certainly no harm to having them but if I'm reading your diagram right, it's only about 15' or so from the front wall to the rears - which is not really that large a space. I'm not sure that front wide speakers are really necessary. I have two sets of heights in my 7.2.4 setup as well, but setup is stretched over a 25' long area. It looks weird to me to have the rear heights actually behind the rear speakers (although it may not really hurt anything either). You could narrow the spacing between the heights, but if the spacing isn't that much, perhaps one pair would do.

You might also want to consider a pair of subs instead of one. Take the money saved by cuttiong out some speakers and put it there instead?

I agree that a hanging speaker is the way to go here. With vaulted ceilings, reflection upfiring atmos isn't going to work very well and would likely be a poor substitute for an actual overhead speaker.

No really recommendations for speakers. It'll be pretty subjective to taste I think. I'm partial to something like a Paradigm but finding something with an offering actually designed to hang pendant style might be tough. I'm not sure if a traditional in-ceiling speaker will work properly if suspended, and it might look a little too unfinished for your tastes as well if you can see from a far enough angle. Perhaps you could build some housing boxes to mount them in and then suspend those? It would certainly open up your options.

For AVRs, I expect any of the major brands will do the job. They all have offereings over various price points and amp channels. I'm partial to Anthem and it's ARC system, but used Yamaha for years before that. I see Denon mentioned a lot in various forum discussion but have never personally used one. Onkyo gets mentioned as a high quality but cheaper alternative. Everyone has their favorite though so I'm sure opinions will vary.

 

[lovinthehd]

Budget and what does the audio budget have to buy, you have anything now? Is it TV or projection? Is there a center or sub (or is the larger rectangle a sub, why only one in that case)? You're going 8/9 base layer four ceiling and using wides in the base layer? What kind of angle does the vaulting have? I'd figure out speakers before avr/amp.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,
I'm planning to move to another place and one of the motives of doing so is to plan a home theater in the living room.

The living room is 6x8 meters and is combined with a kitchen, my initial layout plan is attached:
View attachment 64880
The rectangles and diamonds are floor speakers, and circles are ceiling speakers.

From what I've googled/youtube'd my backs are too close, but I have to compromise here as I can't move them further away into the kitchen area.

Few questions:
1. Any general advice on how to easily improve this or avoid some obvious mistakes?
2. I'm considering Klipsch RP-8000F II as starting point for fronts and I need suggestions what would be best in this layout for center/sides/rears
3. My main pain point is ceiling, it is vaulted ceiling so I'm looking into pendant speakers, Klipsch has some options like IC-800-T but I don't have a clue if it fits with this setup, or how do I choose a good fit from other brand?
4. AVR recommendations?

Those open space living rooms are not a good fit for full HT.

I would send more money on better front three speakers, and one or two subs.

These spaces are best suited and served with good 3.1 or 3.2 systems. Spending more on those speakers will give you much better sound that trying to do what you plan.

 

[Cos]

Those open space living rooms are not a good fit for full HT.

I would send more money on better front three speakers, and one or two subs.

These spaces are best suited and served with good 3.1 or 3.2 systems. Spending more on those speakers will give you much better sound that trying to do what you plan.

When I got my Persona's I had to try them in my living room (open concept), while i was finishing my basement. I had it set up 7.2, it did not work well lol. I have a Simple 3.1 setup in there now that works well for my needs.

 

[complexL9]

Have you considered dropping the front wides and going with one set of more centralized overhead heights?

There's certainly no harm to having them but if I'm reading your diagram right, it's only about 15' or so from the front wall to the rears - which is not really that large a space. I'm not sure that front wide speakers are really necessary. I have two sets of heights in my 7.2.4 setup as well, but setup is stretched over a 25' long area. It looks weird to me to have the rear heights actually behind the rear speakers (although it may not really hurt anything either). You could narrow the spacing between the heights, but if the spacing isn't that much, perhaps one pair would do.

You might also want to consider a pair of subs instead of one. Take the money saved by cuttiong out some speakers and put it there instead?

I agree that a hanging speaker is the way to go here. With vaulted ceilings, reflection upfiring atmos isn't going to work very well and would likely be a poor substitute for an actual overhead speaker.

No really recommendations for speakers. It'll be pretty subjective to taste I think. I'm partial to something like a Paradigm but finding something with an offering actually designed to hang pendant style might be tough. I'm not sure if a traditional in-ceiling speaker will work properly if suspended, and it might look a little too unfinished for your tastes as well if you can see from a far enough angle. Perhaps you could build some housing boxes to mount them in and then suspend those? It would certainly open up your options.

For AVRs, I expect any of the major brands will do the job. They all have offereings over various price points and amp channels. I'm partial to Anthem and it's ARC system, but used Yamaha for years before that. I see Denon mentioned a lot in various forum discussion but have never personally used one. Onkyo gets mentioned as a high quality but cheaper alternative. Everyone has their favorite though so I'm sure opinions will vary.

I've added front wides as a last minute consideration, I guess I will get wiring for them, but not gonna buy them initially if there is little to no difference in this case.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've added front wides as a last minute consideration, I guess I will get wiring for them, but not gonna buy them initially if there is little to no difference in this case.

If I'm reading scale well, I'd not bother with the wides myself. Really no advantage with the location of your surrounds/mains I think.

 

[complexL9]

Budget and what does the audio budget have to buy, you have anything now? Is it TV or projection? Is there a center or sub (or is the larger rectangle a sub, why only one in that case)? You're going 8/9 base layer four ceiling and using wides in the base layer? What kind of angle does the vaulting have? I'd figure out speakers before avr/amp.

- In my current place I have q acoustics 5.1 setup with denon X3500H, but I will be replacing it.
- The budget allows mo to shell out 2K eur for pair of fronts and building it from there in comparable pricing range.
- It will be TV ~85'
- There will be center.
- Larger rectangle is the sub, only one because I don't know any better. Should I place the second one symmetrically?
- Wides same as no second sub, I just don't know what would create the best setup, this is based on few days of google searches and youtube videos.
- Vaulting is ~18 degrees.

 

[complexL9]

Those open space living rooms are not a good fit for full HT.

I would send more money on better front three speakers, and one or two subs.

These spaces are best suited and served with good 3.1 or 3.2 systems. Spending more on those speakers will give you much better sound that trying to do what you plan.

My goal is to have dolby atmos within these constraints. 3.2 would not provide that? I have failed to mention previously, but music listening is not a concern of mine, just movies and gaming.

 

[TLS Guy]

My goal is to have dolby atmos within these constraints. 3.2 would not provide that? I have failed to mention previously, but music listening is not a concern of mine, just movies and gaming.

I get what you goal is, but you need a different room to achieve it. The issue is that the room constraints are the biggest issue as to what you can achieve. What I have found is that with multichannel sound the room is the biggest determinant of the end result. So you get the best results from what the room permits no matter what you are using it for. You can't force a sound frieled in a room that can't support it.

 

[dolynick]

TLS has some good points there, although I still think you could achieve an atmos (although sub-optimal) result if you wanted. The question is if the cost and effort are worth the partial success. Your call.

Two subs will likely just give you a more even bass result. Your room is also fairly large so the second will just help with filling the space in general.

With the length and the vaulted ceiling, I think your room is likely to have some (or a lot of) echo in it. The rear side vaulted ceiling slope in particular might be an issue. You may want to provision for some absorbers and/or diffusers if possible.

My room is 25'x14' with a 12' section open on the rear half of one side. It still sounds pretty good down there (in the MLP at least). But my room has a relatively low and flat ceiling. I don't recall every trying to get a surround system working in a room like yours.

 

[isolar8001]

My goal is to have dolby atmos within these constraints. 3.2 would not provide that? I have failed to mention previously, but music listening is not a concern of mine, just movies and gaming.

Consider what Dolby Atmos actually is before placing all your faith and efforts in it. (not to mention your money)
It's not for ending up with better audio quality...its for expanding the spatial part of the audio experience.
Atmos is not the end-all goal of good audio. It's a sound effect...not a quality enhancement.

Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't depending on where its done, like TLS Guy and others have said.
You can easily just put all the Atmos speakers in that space and get something sort of like Atmos for sure...but it probably won't be any better and might even be worse (more than likely) than just a regular audio system...2 or 3 or 5 channel.
Getting better subs and main speakers would be a better way to go. Be more concerned about sound quality than things whizzing front to back over your head.


I have the opposite situation myself....my room is very small and running Atmos just causes confusion and detracts from a basic 5.1 system.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS has some good points there, although I still think you could achieve an atmos (although sub-optimal) result if you wanted. The question is if the cost and effort are worth the partial success. Your call.

Two subs will likely just give you a more even bass result. Your room is also fairly large so the second will just help with filling the space in general.

With the length and the vaulted ceiling, I think your room is likely to have some (or a lot of) echo in it. The rear side vaulted ceiling slope in particular might be an issue. You may want to provision for some absorbers and/or diffusers if possible.

My room is 25'x14' with a 12' section open on the rear half of one side. It still sounds pretty good down there (in the MLP at least). But my room has a relatively low and flat ceiling. I don't recall every trying to get a surround system working in a room like yours.

It will be suboptimal and markedly inferior to a good 3.1 or 3.2 system.

The biggest issue I have found with this technology, it that it requires a dedicated room that most homes do not have. So in the end significant reconstruction is required to make it worthwhile. So what other spaces to you have in the house?

 

[lovinthehd]

- In my current place I have q acoustics 5.1 setup with denon X3500H, but I will be replacing it.
- The budget allows mo to shell out 2K eur for pair of fronts and building it from there in comparable pricing range.
- It will be TV ~85'
- There will be center.
- Larger rectangle is the sub, only one because I don't know any better. Should I place the second one symmetrically?
- Wides same as no second sub, I just don't know what would create the best setup, this is based on few days of google searches and youtube videos.
- Vaulting is ~18 degrees.
View attachment 64881

Not sure what you mean by 2k eur for pair of fronts with that "comparable pricing range" qualifier. How much space are you allowing for center? In that "pic" what is the large box under the tv, the center or furniture of some sort? Might like this article on centers https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/center-channel-designs-1

Subs tend to go where they need to go (perform best)....many do place them up front on either side like L/R speakers, or even use them as speaker stands. Some use room calculators (if you download REW / RoomEQ Wizard there's one included). Are you concerned with more than your own seat? Single sub may work well if only one seat is a concern, and even behind your couch can work great, especially one sub in a bigger room. Main benefit of multiple subs is easier to smooth response thru the room, plus a slight benefit in each not having to work as hard as a single. What's sub budget?

I'd start in steps perhaps with shopping for a solid 3.1/3.2 setup as suggested, using your current avr, that may work well for budgeting/saving, too. Perhaps use your current speakers to add surrounds/rear surrounds (or hanging them) and see what that brings before buying anything. Most important are the front three (and there's an argument if a single seat only concern then a phantom center using just L/R speakers can be a consideration. Have you used the Atmos feature on the 3500 at all?

I still haven't gone Atmos but more because of how much time would be needed up in the crawl space (along with a very long crawl to the living room) and dealing with insulation and wiring, just don't think its worth it . I do have more space behind my seat, and think that is a good thing when it comes to rear surrounds, but if it starts to get in the way or remains so close to seating, would be another set of surrounds I'd give up. I have seen some fit angled boxes to slanted ceilings to take up the angle, but think aside from something like SVS' Prime Elevations that may need to be diy.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hi,
I'm planning to move to another place and one of the motives of doing so is to plan a home theater in the living room.

The living room is 6x8 meters and is combined with a kitchen, my initial layout plan is attached:
View attachment 64880
The rectangles and diamonds are floor speakers, and circles are ceiling speakers.

From what I've googled/youtube'd my backs are too close, but I have to compromise here as I can't move them further away into the kitchen area.

Few questions:
1. Any general advice on how to easily improve this or avoid some obvious mistakes?
2. I'm considering Klipsch RP-8000F II as starting point for fronts and I need suggestions what would be best in this layout for center/sides/rears
3. My main pain point is ceiling, it is vaulted ceiling so I'm looking into pendant speakers, Klipsch has some options like IC-800-T but I don't have a clue if it fits with this setup, or how do I choose a good fit from other brand?
4. AVR recommendations?

FWIW I believe some Atmos is better than no Atmos. It has been very successful for me, so I say go for it. I also think the pendant speakers are a good solution, as long as they end up in the proper locations. Front wides seem to be effective when the distance from the mains to side/surrounds is fairly long, or the sides/surrounds are beyond about 100°. I would also skip them, but agree you should wire for them. They don’t always get used. Iirc, some Atmos tracks will pan objects through them, but most people only find them active when an upmixer like DSU or DTSnx is used. If you can, it’s worth investing in multiple subs too, but be prepared to set them up properly for maximum ROI.

 

[complexL9]

Not sure what you mean by 2k eur for pair of fronts with that "comparable pricing range" qualifier. How much space are you allowing for center? In that "pic" what is the large box under the tv, the center or furniture of some sort? Might like this article on centers https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/center-channel-designs-1

For center I could go with RC-64 III as price limit, but if 3x cheaper one is "almost as good", I would consider the more value friendly option. I don't know if I'm getting my point across..

Subs tend to go where they need to go (perform best)....many do place them up front on either side like L/R speakers, or even use them as speaker stands. Some use room calculators (if you download REW / RoomEQ Wizard there's one included). Are you concerned with more than your own seat? Single sub may work well if only one seat is a concern, and even behind your couch can work great, especially one sub in a bigger room. Main benefit of multiple subs is easier to smooth response thru the room, plus a slight benefit in each not having to work as hard as a single. What's sub budget?

What I want to avoid is to spend 5x for one piece where other components are way below that quality level, hence the "comparable pricing range", given that front speakers cost around 2000Eur what should be the rational budget for sub?
I also find it complicated to pick the best place for sub before I decide where to get the wiring done, the room is empty and I won't have subs before the room is done.

I'd start in steps perhaps with shopping for a solid 3.1/3.2 setup as suggested, using your current avr, that may work well for budgeting/saving, too. Perhaps use your current speakers to add surrounds/rear surrounds (or hanging them) and see what that brings before buying anything. Most important are the front three (and there's an argument if a single seat only concern then a phantom center using just L/R speakers can be a consideration. Have you used the Atmos feature on the 3500 at all?

I'm not sure yet if the old equipment will move to the new place, but in case it does I will use it as you suggested.
Have I used Atmos feature? That made me wonder, but I think I did

 

[complexL9]

Have you considered dropping the front wides and going with one set of more centralized overhead heights?

There's certainly no harm to having them but if I'm reading your diagram right, it's only about 15' or so from the front wall to the rears - which is not really that large a space. I'm not sure that front wide speakers are really necessary. I have two sets of heights in my 7.2.4 setup as well, but setup is stretched over a 25' long area. It looks weird to me to have the rear heights actually behind the rear speakers (although it may not really hurt anything either). You could narrow the spacing between the heights, but if the spacing isn't that much, perhaps one pair would do.

Found new place for rears, hoping this makes it a bit better?

 

[TLS Guy]

Found new place for rears, hoping this makes it a bit better?
View attachment 64887

Most of those speakers are in the wrong place. The surrounds are in front of you. I would get the surrounds in the right place, just behind you and definitely get rid of the backs. If you do this the ceiling speakers need to more closely follow Dolby Specs, Move then in a bit and the front and back ceilings a bit closer together.

That listening area is way too small for surrounds and rear backs. In fact you likely would be better off with just two ceiling speakers and not four.

 

[dolynick]

Found new place for rears, hoping this makes it a bit better?
View attachment 64887

I thought your original location for the rears was alright. The rear heights overhanging them was more what I was looking at.

Atmos is like a half-circle bubble around you. Try thinking about your speakers being on the wall of that bubble in terms of positioning. If your heights are well above head, then your diagram makes it more of a square with more vertical front and rear ends rather than a curing slope bubble. I would think they should move inwards towards the MLP a bit, and that puts them relatively close together then you might want to consider combining them into one pair - probably just a touch forward of the MLP.

If it was me, I'd also move the rears back in to a more behind the couch position again.

 

[Trebdp83]

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