Do all home stereo receivers do digital FM these days?

[crazyfingers]

My wife wants to listen to music on the radio in the living room. That's OK. But her stereo drives me running from the room. Or more precisely, the FM music drives me to the basement it sounds so horrible! The receiver and the speakers are around 25-30 years old. The speakers are some bookshelf Klipsch speakers. I believe that they are OK because whenever I've plugged my iPod into the receiver with 3.5mm to RCA they are OK.

But the FM radio is so horribly bad!

I am thinking about replacing her receiver which only does analog FM. But when I look around, receiver manufacturers, they don't say if the FM is digital or analog. Is digital FM just so ubiquitous now that these companies don't think that it's worth mentioning?

For example, I looked at the the Yamaha R-S202

R-S202 - Overview - Yamaha - United States

Yamaha, the most trusted brand in home audio, adds Bluetooth® compatibility in this Hi-Fi receiver for easy wireless access to streaming music services and music on your smartphone or other devices. Enjoy the connectivity and the outstanding and legendary quality of Yamaha natural sound.

usa.yamaha.com

It doesn't even say if the FM is digital or not. Can I assume that a receiver like this is digital FM or do I really need to find ones that specify so?

 

[TLS Guy]

My wife wants to listen to music on the radio in the living room. That's OK. But her stereo drives me running from the room. Or more precisely, the FM music drives me to the basement it sounds so horrible! The receiver and the speakers are around 25-30 years old. The speakers are some bookshelf Klipsch speakers. I believe that they are OK because whenever I've plugged my iPod into the receiver with 3.5mm to RCA they are OK.

But the FM radio is so horribly bad!

I am thinking about replacing her receiver which only does analog FM. But when I look around, receiver manufacturers, they don't say if the FM is digital or analog. Is digital FM just so ubiquitous now that these companies don't think that it's worth mentioning?

For example, I looked at the the Yamaha R-S202

R-S202 - Overview - Yamaha - United States

Yamaha, the most trusted brand in home audio, adds Bluetooth® compatibility in this Hi-Fi receiver for easy wireless access to streaming music services and music on your smartphone or other devices. Enjoy the connectivity and the outstanding and legendary quality of Yamaha natural sound.

usa.yamaha.com

It doesn't even say if the FM is digital or not. Can I assume that a receiver like this is digital FM or do I really need to find ones that specify so?

HD radio is a busted flush. It stands for hybrid digital, and is a stream piggy backed onto the FM signal. It was never a good system. Europe and other jurisdictions use DAB which is much better. HD radio is in decline. My older two AVPs have HD radio. My latest Marantz 7705 does not, but my two older ones do. The maximum bit rate that this lousy system allows is 120 kb/s. That is low. However the codec, proprietary HDC, and it does punch somewhat above its weight and much better than MP3, and probably comparable to AC3.

In my two channel system I can compare HD to analog FM. What I can say is that the HD is as good or better then the analog FM in those units. However the FM sections are far from state of the art. My two Quad FM tuners are in the theater and the 2.1 system. The Quad FM4 gives a standard significantly above the tuner section in the 7705 and the HD radio. The Quad FM4 is one of the best FM tuners ever produced, and widely regarded as one of Peter Walker's greatest designs.

 

[crazyfingers]

Hmmm. Any. Suggestions what to do?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hmmm. Any. Suggestions what to do?

Do you have an FM antenna connected to it? Can you do an omni antenna in the attic?

 

[TLS Guy]

Hmmm. Any. Suggestions what to do?

What are you trying to receive? Location and transmitters you want to receive and especially your distance from them. Not many FM stations are providing HD radio service and mainly public radio stations.

 

[lovinthehd]

What makes her FM stuff so bad particularly? Is it a matter of reception or content or ? Any interest in internet delivered radio?

 

[crazyfingers]

I do have a regular antenna like this attached.

It's not about static, dropouts or an obvious tuning problem. The stereo is on the north side of the house facing the city where most of the channels are coming from.

I can't really put anything higher up. I could get a better antenna. But I can't really describe what makes it so horrible sounding to me and to one of my sons. My wife and the other son don't think anything is wrong with it. Perhaps it sounds very compressed as in lack of dynamic range.

Her main channel does transmit in HD. It sounds OK in the car which does do HD. That's why I was thinking about replacing the old receiver which is a Kenwood 103AR https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/kenwood/103ar.shtml

 

[crazyfingers]

What makes her FM stuff so bad particularly? Is it a matter of reception or content or ? Any interest in internet delivered radio?

While you posted I was writing my post. Her main station comes in fine as far as no noticeable static, no dropouts, etc... It's https://onlineradiobox.com/us/wmjx/

It's very subjective. To me and one son it just sounds horrible but to my wife and other son they don't understand our reaction.

If it would fix it she'd probably be OK streaming. I just know that I can't really stay in the same room when she has the radio on the stereo is fine if it's playing from my iPod.

 

[lovinthehd]

While you posted I was writing my post. Her main station comes in fine as far as no noticeable static, no dropouts, etc... It's https://onlineradiobox.com/us/wmjx/

It's very subjective. To me and one son it just sounds horrible but to my wife and other son they don't understand our reaction.

If it would fix it she'd probably be OK streaming. I just know that I can't really stay in the same room when she has the radio on the stereo is fine if it's playing from my iPod.

You're comparing the same station for OTA and internet stream?

 

[TLS Guy]

What makes her FM stuff so bad particularly? Is it a matter of reception or content or ? Any interest in internet delivered radio?

It is not inherently bad, just hard to execute properly. First is to get a good signal to the radio, receiver or tuner. If you are fairly close to the transmitter a good loft/attic dipole will surface. This can work up to 20 to 30 miles depending on terrain. Distances greater than that require roof arrays.

The type of antenna pictured above will not give quality reproduction.

The next issue is having a quality receiver. In this regard vintage tends to rule. Internet radio is definitely superseding terrestrial. The problem is that bit rates tend to be low. You are lucky to get 128 kbs. The analog FM MPR signal sounds a lot better than the 128kbs MP3.

All this has contributed to a decline in the offerings for excellent reception from analog FM.

So good vintage units fetch high prices on the used market, for those still interested in high quality FM broadcast reproduction. DaySequerra where probably the top of the line. The Quad FM4 has always ranked among the best also and Mac also have produced very good FM tuners.

 

[crazyfingers]

You're comparing the same station for OTA and internet stream?

I have not. I'm just saying my wife isn't opposed to the idea.

I'm trying to think of a way to see if internet streaming is better. I can get the station on my basement stereo on my NAD preamp/streamer via InTune. But I can only play it on my basement stereo.

I'm wondering if there is a way to get it on my Android based Fiio portable player to plug into the stereo upstairs and see if internet makes a difference. I've only just though of that idea so I don't know.

 

[TLS Guy]

I do have a regular antenna like this attached.

View attachment 64530

It's not about static, dropouts or an obvious tuning problem. The stereo is on the north side of the house facing the city where most of the channels are coming from.

I can't really put anything higher up. I could get a better antenna. But I can't really describe what makes it so horrible sounding to me and to one of my sons. My wife and the other son don't think anything is wrong with it. Perhaps it sounds very compressed as in lack of dynamic range.

Her main channel does transmit in HD. It sounds OK in the car which does do HD. That's why I was thinking about replacing the old receiver which is a Kenwood 103AR https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/kenwood/103ar.shtml

That Kenwood is an older middle of the road tuner. It is analog and will not receive an FM HD signal. If a tuner is capable of receiving an FM HD signal, the HD logo will light up when it is detected.

If you do buy vintage then you need to make sure it is a US model. The de-emphasis circuit is different in different jurisdictions. I bought both my Quad FM4 units from the UK where most are. I had to modify the de-emphasis circuits which involved soldering to change some internal components.

Really high quality FM reception is a science and an art.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have not. I'm just saying my wife isn't opposed to the idea.

I'm trying to think of a way to see if internet streaming is better. I can get the station on my basement stereo on my NAD preamp/streamer via InTune. But I can only play it on my basement stereo.

I'm wondering if there is a way to get it on my Android based Fiio portable player to plug into the stereo upstairs and see if internet makes a difference. I've only just though of that idea so I don't know.

Just curious if that makes a difference to you. On my older gear I stream via Audio Chromecast units, have even used a bluetooth receiver. I haven't lived in a place with good radio reception in a very long time (mountains can be hard for reception), more over the content on corporate fm radio reminds me more of the old am days....

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

crazyfingers, get this:

Amazon.com

I love mine. Reception is good too.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have not. I'm just saying my wife isn't opposed to the idea.

I'm trying to think of a way to see if internet streaming is better. I can get the station on my basement stereo on my NAD preamp/streamer via InTune. But I can only play it on my basement stereo.

I'm wondering if there is a way to get it on my Android based Fiio portable player to plug into the stereo upstairs and see if internet makes a difference. I've only just though of that idea so I don't know.

The best FM radio reception, comes from the analog signal, via a good antenna and a good FM tuner.

 

[crazyfingers]

I wish I could communicate why it sounds so bad to me and one son but not to my wife and the other son. But the latter two also don't hear the difference between bluetooth and wired while the my first son and I can.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I wish I could communicate why it sounds so bad to me and one son but not to my wife and the other son. But the latter two also don't hear the difference between bluetooth and wired while the my first son and I can.

I wish I could say what you’re experiencing. But where I live, there are a couple of stations that broadcast what I’m assuming are digital streams of some kind. They sound like TOTAL SHITT!!!!! Like old low bit MP3’s, with cymbals that sound like some kind of swishy compressed nightmare swirled in a beer can. ZERO dynamic range, just squashed crap. It does seem to get worse as the reception gets weaker(driving), but even at its best, it’s horrible.

 

[crazyfingers]

So that antenna I have may also be junk. I can't really put an antenna anywhere but on a bookshelf in back of the TV and stereo in the living room. I don't know what to get though. There is so much crap on Amazon I wouldn't know how to weed out the crap.

So I guess my do-do's are

1: to see if my Android FIIO player which has wired output jack can pick up internet based channels with the right App just to see if it sounds any better. That's just to test internet music.

2: look into a better table-top antenna

3: I just thought also as a test, I can plug my recently retired ADCOM GTP-500 preamp (with tuner) into the receiver and see if that makes a difference.

I guess I'm trying to see if I can isolate where the failure is before I invest significantly into anything.

And I guess while I'm at it I would play some more music wired from my iPod or my Fiio M11S player though the stereo to re-ensure myself that it's just the FM that sucks. That's the easiest to do.

 

[crazyfingers]

I wish I could say what you’re experiencing. But where I live, there are a couple of stations that broadcast what I’m assuming are digital streams of some kind. They sound like TOTAL SHITT!!!!! Like old low bit MP3’s, with cymbals that sound like some kind of swishy compressed nightmare swirled in a beer can. ZERO dynamic range, just squashed crap. It does seem to get worse as the reception gets weaker(driving), but even at its best, it’s horrible.

You just described exactly how I feel when I hear my wife's FM stations.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You just described exactly how I feel when I hear my wife's FM stations.

I had a hunch unfortunately. The problem IMO, is that you won’t be able to resolve the issue. I am happy to be wrong, but I think in my case here at least, it’s a bandwidth limitation of some kind. Guessing a station, or format thing. I don’t know much about FM broadcasting or reception but I know the couple of stations here that use the same format are unlistenable to me. As with you, people have told me they don’t notice, and I just can’t even understand that. lol!!!!!