Sumiko Rainier Cartridge

[Squishman]

I would not recommend the Sumiko Rainier for DJ use! The tracking force is too light at 2g and the cantilever is unlikely to stand up to heavy DJ use and back-cueing. The Rainer is an entry-level MM cartridge for hifi use, similar to your Ortofon Blue or Red.

Overall, I'm not a fan of the Pro-Ject tables, particularly the Carbon EVO, as the speed stability and W+F is poor and something you can easily hear on certain genres of music or poor presses. Not to mention they are very slow to get up to speed and to change from 33 to 45, let alone having to swap the belt for 78! For serious vinyl listeners, I highly recommend a direct-drive table, but of course these tend to be more expensive than entry-level belt drives, so I understand they are not for everyone.

My current ProJect tt that I have had for five years is great except for the cumbersome speed change. So I imagine i will be plenty happy with the Evo.

 

[TLS Guy]

I would not recommend the Sumiko Rainier for DJ use! The tracking force is too light at 2g and the cantilever is unlikely to stand up to heavy DJ use and back-cueing. The Rainer is an entry-level MM cartridge for hifi use, similar to your Ortofon Blue or Red.

Overall, I'm not a fan of the Pro-Ject tables, particularly the Carbon EVO, as the speed stability and W+F is poor and something you can easily hear on certain genres of music or poor presses. Not to mention they are very slow to get up to speed and to change from 33 to 45, let alone having to swap the belt for 78! For serious vinyl listeners, I highly recommend a direct-drive table, but of course these tend to be more expensive than entry-level belt drives, so I understand they are not for everyone.

Those Rainer cartridges are advertised and promoted for DJ use, but I was a bit surprised by that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with good belt drive turntables. I bought one of the first ever made, the Thorens TD 150. It came with no arm and no plinth. That was the way turntable wer generally sold back then. It is still working perfectly.

Thorens TD 150, bought 1966, now with SME series III arm and Shure V15xmr. It is seen here playing a dbx II encoded LP. The decoder is in the Tape 1 loop of the quad 44 preamp, which is why the disc and Tape 1 lights are on.

This is my other belt drive turntable the Thorens TD 125 MKII. This I bought non working on eBay and restored it. It has electronic motor control and therefore the added complexity provides points of failure.

Again SME series III and Shure V15xmr.

My other turntables are my Garrard 301s. They are superbly made beautifully made pieces of high craftsmanship.

Decca ffss H4E on Decca pro arm.

Now with 78 RPM Decca MK II head. Preamp is Quad 22 and I am the original owner.

That preamp has all the EQ codes for just about any 78 ever made.

 

[davidscott]

Those Rainer cartridges are advertised and promoted for DJ use, but I was a bit surprised by that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with good belt drive turntables. I bought one of the first ever made, the Thorens TD 150. It came with no arm and no plinth. That was the way turntable wer generally sold back then. It is still working perfectly.

Thorens TD 150, bought 1966, now with SME series III arm and Shure V15xmr. It is seen here playing a dbx II encoded LP. The decoder is in the Tape 1 loop of the quad 44 preamp, which is why the disc and Tape 1 lights are on.

This is my other belt drive turntable the Thorens TD 125 MKII. This I bought non working on eBay and restored it. It has electronic motor control and therefore the added complexity provides points of failure.

Again SME series III and Shure V15xmr.

My other turntables are my Garrard 301s. They are superbly made beautifully made pieces of high craftsmanship.

Decca ffss H4E on Decca pro arm.

Now with 78 RPM Decca MK II head. Preamp is Quad 22 and I am the original owner.

That preamp has all the EQ codes for just about any 78 ever made.

 

[davidscott]

Nice collection of Thorens tables. I had a 240 with a Dynavector 10x3 cart back in the 80s. Sold it when I moved but that was a nice sounding combo. I also had a Technics DD back in the 70s so I'm familiar with DD. If you change the belt every couple of years belt drives are totally fine. BTW now I have a Rega Planar 3 with an updated Carbon cart stylus from LP gear. Sounds good but I'm not sure if it's as good as the Dynavector.

 

[TLS Guy]

Nice collection of Thorens tables. I had a 240 with a Dynavector 10x3 cart back in the 80s. Sold it when I moved but that was a nice sounding combo. I also had a Technics DD back in the 70s so I'm familiar with DD. If you change the belt every couple of years belt drives are totally fine. BTW now I have a Rega Planar 3 with an updated Carbon cart stylus from LP gear. Sounds good but I'm not sure if it's as good as the Dynavector.

I think I have only changed the belt on the TD 150 once, and I actually don't think I needed to. In my experience belts are very long lived.

The other two turntables are Garrard 301s. So the AV room has one belt TD 150 and two Garrard 301s. One has the Decca rig and Quad 22 tube preamp, and the other has an SME series II, with Shure V15xmr. Preamp for that turntable is Quad 34, the Thorens has the Quad 44. I have a preamp for each turntable as it is a long line to the AVP, and I want control of the turntable right at the turntable. In addition Quad preamps are the most perfect interface for turntables, as they offer unbelievable versatility on many fronts.

 

[Squishman]

So actually, I ordered a scratch and sniff model. Or scratch and dent to be more accurate. It was almost $150 less, so it was a no-brainer. I got piano black. I called Crutchfield to ask how serious would the ding be and she said it was the cover. Not cracked, but probably a scuff. I'll keep the better cover then between this one and the new one.

 

[TLS Guy]

So actually, I ordered a scratch and sniff model. Or scratch and dent to be more accurate. It was almost $150 less, so it was a no-brainer. I got piano black. I called Crutchfield to ask how serious would the ding be and she said it was the cover. Not cracked, but probably a scuff. I'll keep the better cover then between this one and the new one.

I would be cautious. I suspect this was a returned unit, and may have been abused. A turntable is a delicate affair, and a red flag like that would warn me off.

 

[Squishman]

I would be cautious. I suspect this was a returned unit, and may have been abused. A turntable is a delicate affair, and a red flag like that would warn me off.

I did consider that. And it could very well have been returned. But going from $599 to $445 was something I had to consider. I am putting my Ortofon Blue on it, so that's fine. I obviously hope the Sumiko is fine because my plan is to sell my existing turntable with that cart. If there is something I am not happy with, I can probably return it. If I was looking for a color plinth, then I would probably not have considered a scratch and dent one. But she did say it was the cover. Dollars to doughnuts, it'll be fine.

 

[Squishman]

Well, well well. I got the turntable today and was excited to switch out the carts, etc. The dust cover was indeed scratched, worse than I expected. But also the plinth on the front, right corner was dinged quite bad. I wonder if the unit was dropped. Anyway, I called Crutchfield to ask what would be the process to return it and pay the extra $150 plus more tax for a new unit. She said they will ship it out today, so that means I will have it on Friday, and... they will NOT be charging me the difference! Nor do I have to pay for return shipping.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, well well. I got the turntable today and was excited to switch out the carts, etc. The dust cover was indeed scratched, worse than I expected. But also the plinth on the front, right corner was dinged quite bad. I wonder if the unit was dropped. Anyway, I called Crutchfield to ask what would be the process to return it and pay the extra $150 plus more tax for a new unit. She said they will ship it out today, so that means I will have it on Friday, and... they will NOT be charging me the difference! Nor do I have to pay for return shipping.

Well you are a lucky boy then! As you know, my sixth sense was, that, that unit was bad news. I would not push your luck with that sort of purchase again though.

 

[Squishman]

Well you are a lucky boy then! As you know, my sixth sense was, that, that unit was bad news. I would not push your luck with that sort of purchase again though.

Roger that Doctor!

 

[Squishman]

Just got the tracking number for the brand new one!

 

[lovinthehd]

Do you really get best value from selling your old tt with the cartridge vs without cartridge? Let alone having a spare....

 

[Squishman]

Do you really get best value from selling your old tt with the cartridge vs without cartridge? Let alone having a spare....

Pretty sure it'll fetch top dollar with a brand new cartridge.

 

[lovinthehd]

Pretty sure it'll fetch top dollar with a brand new cartridge.

Just seems most tt sales I've seen don't include a cartridge (thinking because many simply like to choose their own) and was thinking as with many things get more money by parting things out separately (or just to have a spare). I also wonder if it came installed if that would take away from the perceived "newness" of the cartridge....just curious overall....

 

[highfigh]

Not all arms are going to be accurate on their weight scales, or perhaps even have any, I think is where a recommendation for a weight gauge comes in.

A gauge could be made by the user, if they calibrate the scale accurately. Probably cheaper to buy one but it would be a good project for the kids.

 

[highfigh]

Pretty sure it'll fetch top dollar with a brand new cartridge.

But you know most buyers won't like the cartridge that comes with it, so they'll ask or demand a discount.

 

[Squishman]

Just seems most tt sales I've seen don't include a cartridge (thinking because many simply like to choose their own) and was thinking as with many things get more money by parting things out separately (or just to have a spare). I also wonder if it came installed if that would take away from the perceived "newness" of the cartridge....just curious overall....

I just think the vast majority of used turntable buyers may not have the know-how to install one correctly. Then you have the certain percentage of used tt buyers who may just be getting into vinyl. This would be just the ticket for them, to find a fine used tt with a brand new cart. If they are only interested in LP's, then the speed change would not be an issue. That is my target market for this unit. Plus, I don't want this cart as a back up. If/when my stylus begins to wear out, I'll buy a new one. Not so interested in the Sumiko.
btw, Sumiko is giving away a free upgrade stylus as a promo until 12-31. So, that's cool. It's called the Olympia. I imagine I'll sell that because it's probably not better than my Ortofon Blue (if I kept the cart, which I will not be keeping).

 

[highfigh]

I just think the vast majority of used turntable buyers may not have the know-how to install one correctly. Then you have the certain percentage of used tt buyers who may just be getting into vinyl. This would be just the ticket for them, to find a fine used tt with a brand new cart. If they are only interested in LP's, then the speed change would not be an issue. That is my target market for this unit. Plus, I don't want this cart as a back up. If/when my stylus begins to wear out, I'll buy a new one. Not so interested in the Sumiko.
btw, Sumiko is giving away a free upgrade stylus as a promo until 12-31. So, that's cool. It's called the Olympia. I imagine I'll sell that because it's probably not better than my Ortofon Blue (if I kept the cart, which I will not be keeping).

Sumiko makes good sounding cartridges- not sure why you wouldn't be interested.

 

[Squishman]

Sumiko makes good sounding cartridges- not sure why you wouldn't be interested.

How does that Olympia stand up to the Ortofon Blue? I'd like to know if it is considered to be better!