Having trouble keeping SW on whilst playing LP's

[lovinthehd]

If you did not set a crossover frequency, then your set up is not complete. What is your crossover frequency to the sub? Where is the volume on the plate sub amp set? Is the crossover set to LFE or LFE + Main?

His avr doesn't use the LFE+Main terminology, it does have a Double Bass option, tho IIRC not quite the same on some Onkyos in that setting a crossover isn't always an option (to use as a high pass for the speakers like you can generally do with D&M units in conjunction with the LFE+Main setting).....

 

[Squishman]

As others have indicated... I would start with Sub XO at 80. LFE crossover should be 120 (usually a separate setting).
If you are changing the connections or some other setting, you may want to redo your room correction. That is up to you.
Just adding the Y should not really upset anything.

And as a picture is worth 1000 words... and just to make certain there is no confusion, this is what I'm talking about doing:
View attachment 62441

Finally got around to checking settings. AVR LFE should be at 120? It is at 120. You said sub xo at 80. Does not LFE defeat the crossover control on the amp plate? Or do I have that wrong? I haven't hooked up a Y. Still just LFE.

 

[Eppie]

Finally got around to checking settings. AVR LFE should be at 120? It is at 120. You said sub xo at 80. Does not LFE defeat the crossover control on the amp plate? Or do I have that wrong? I haven't hooked up a Y. Still just LFE.

The crossover on the plate amp is for when you don't have crossover control on your AVR. When using the AVR crossover setting the plate amp crossover should be set to max so that the AVR can do its thing. I don't see the Y adapter making much difference but no harm in trying. Best to turn up the AVR subwoofer trim, but as mentioned it's preferred not to use positive values.

 

[lovinthehd]

Finally got around to checking settings. AVR LFE should be at 120? It is at 120. You said sub xo at 80. Does not LFE defeat the crossover control on the amp plate? Or do I have that wrong? I haven't hooked up a Y. Still just LFE.

I think Ryan meant just the crossover (that between speaker and sub) for 80. LFE inputs on subs generally bypass the sub's low pass filter, but not all...safer to just set it at max value in any case.

 

[ryanosaur]

Eppie and Lovin' already answered, but when using an AVR's Room Correction, you should always defeat any Subwoofer-Amp-settings. Always set Phase to 0 to begin, and set XO to MAX/Bypass/Off. I've only had experience with Audyssey and it makes you set the Subs Gain to a specific SPL reading the Mic measures before it lets you advance.

Does not LFE defeat the crossover control on the amp plate?

This is an interesting question which I cannot answer with certainty, but my susposion is that this is why you defeat any setting on the Subwoofer Plate Amp. You are telling the AVR "brain" to set a specific XO, UNLESS it is LFE Channel in a movie or other multi-channel encoded program (ie 5.1, 7.1, etc).

 

[lovinthehd]

Which sub do you have?

 

[Squishman]

Which sub do you have?

HSU vtf mk2 12"

 

[lovinthehd]

HSU vtf mk2 12"

According to your manual you can set your "crossover switch" to "out" to bypass the sub's low pass filter.

 

[Squishman]

According to your manual you can set your "crossover switch" to "out" to bypass the sub's low pass filter.

I said the model wrong. It's a VTF-2 MK5. I did have that switch set to out. Better to leave it there?

 

[Squishman]

Fronts, center are at 80 Hz. Heights and surrounds are at 120. LFE is at 120. On the Onkyo Quick menu, all three (fronts, center and sub) were 0 db. So, I shouldn't add positive gain to the sub there? What if I did? Like try +4 db. Seems that would possibly or even likely solve the issue. Then adjust volume on the sub down as needed. It is already over 50%. Seems I need more gain anyway!

 

[TLS Guy]

Fronts, center are at 80 Hz. Heights and surrounds are at 120. LFE is at 120. On the Onkyo Quick menu, all three (fronts, center and sub) were 0 db. So, I shouldn't add positive gain to the sub there? What if I did? Like try +4 db. Seems that would possibly or even likely solve the issue. Then adjust volume on the sub down as needed. It is already over 50%. Seems I need more gain anyway!

Something is not right. If your sub output is at 0 db. then that should be plenty of voltage to activate the auto on. Changing the setting on the sub will not help as the sub volume circuit is downstream of the auto on circuit.

So either there is something wrong with the receiver sub output, or more likely something wrong with the sub auto on circuit. But I have one more question. Does this still only occur when listening to your turntable? If so, then you phono preamp in the receiver has an over aggressive high pass filter.

 

[Squishman]

Something is not right. If your sub output is at 0 db. then that should be plenty of voltage to activate the auto on. Changing the setting on the sub will not help as the sub volume circuit is downstream of the auto on circuit.

So either there is something wrong with the receiver sub output, or more likely something wrong with the sub auto on circuit. But I have one more question. Does this still only occur when listening to your turntable? If so, then you phono preamp in the receiver has an over aggressive high pass filter.

After setting the Quick menu sub out setting to +4 db, it is playing fine at a moderate volume. But the sub was already on since I had the TV on previously. It is the only change that I made I think since my OP.
I will shut it off in a while then power it back up with an LP and see what happens.
Trebdp83 says it's an Onkyo thing and it is what it is with Onks. Hopefully, I resolved it with just the q menu setting.

 

[lovinthehd]

I said the model wrong. It's a VTF-2 MK5. I did have that switch set to out. Better to leave it there?

Generally you just want the avr providing bass management, altho I suppose in some rare circumstances you might want both filters active (called cascading filters).

 

[Squishman]

Yeah, that resolved it. The quick menu sw level that is. Sub was off (on auto), I dropped the needle to a Doobie Bros. album and before the music started it was already on. Thx for helping!

 

[ryanosaur]

Squish...
Re. Positive Trim Levels and the reason this should be avoided is that Positive Boost is done in the Digital domain. Once the signal is boosted thusly, it is much easier for the signal to clip at the Pre-Amp level. Amplifying an already clipped signal is the absolute fastest way to court damage.
This isn't a guarantee that it will happen, but in the realm of "best practices" should be avoided.

 

[TLS Guy]

Squish...
Re. Positive Trim Levels and the reason this should be avoided is that Positive Boost is done in the Digital domain. Once the signal is boosted thusly, it is much easier for the signal to clip at the Pre-Amp level. Amplifying an already clipped signal is the absolute fastest way to court damage.
This isn't a guarantee that it will happen, but in the realm of "best practices" should be avoided.

I agree you don't want to be using +ve trim levels and you should not have to.

 

[Squishman]

I agree you don't want to be using +ve trim levels and you should not have to.

Apparently you do if you have an Onkyo. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with this amp.

 

[lovinthehd]

Did you setup the sub/RZ50 using the AccuEQ feature?

 

[Squishman]

Did you setup the sub/RZ50 using the AccuEQ feature?

It has Dirac Live, which I did not use. I calibrated with the mic though in my primo seating position. I do not recall what Onkyo calls that or if there is a name for it. Like Yamaha's YPAO.

 

[lovinthehd]

AFAIK Onkyo still uses AccuEQ for basic setup. Just curious how sub trim level was initially done...