Reconfiguring/improving audio in 5th wheel camper. Help!

[viper1]

I'm not new to audio and I know I should not go crazy here how I would like. That being said, my current 5th has an integrated sound bar that powers all zone ceiling speakers which are 5.25". Sound is very sad. Because this is an RV, I have both AC and 12VDC onboard. Space is at a premium as is access.

I have the sound bar, then 3 other stereo zones, one being an outdoor pair. My primary use is music, not really theater sound. I typically like ear bleed sound levels but I need to calm down....ha. I was originally considering installing a home audio receiver of maybe a 9ch variety near where the sound bar is so I can use the OEM wires. Then replace all ceiling speakers and install a subwoofer 'somewhere' (this will be very tricky).

But I have a couple complications here. One is I may not be able to accommodate the size of an AV receiver in the cabinet. Other is the issue of AV receivers mostly being 8ohm and most 5.25" speakers being 4ohm.

For a sub, I was sort of considering an HT powered sub, but those usually are depressing in music playback unless you get what I use in my home which is a pair of 18" velodynes. It appears it will be tricky to even fit a 10" sub anywhere so I may want a beasty 10" and powered well. I may also have to consider a sealed enclosure rather than ported due to space. I know ported can probably perform much better in this space though.

Any ideas here are welcome! I've even considered ditching the AC gear and running mobile 12V gear like a head unit, but not sure I can really get enough power for the ceiling speakers without more amps and I am really trying to streamline this build.

I've also wondered if sound bars have evolved to where I could target a good one that can do what I need? I would really like to be at 50-80wpc, all channels driven, but I know that is a tall order without real amps.

 

[lovinthehd]

The sound bar amp could well be quite limited. Better speakers might get you closer to better ear bleed performance. It's at least a fairly common size, but not all same diameter speakers are created equal. I've never found Velodyne subs to be particularly great, but there are a lot of competent subs out there, but size does matter, at least in a small room it won't take as much.

 

[viper1]

Thanks! I guess wondering how better speakers would improve this without more power? Based on the 12v/10A fuse for the sound bar, I would estimate it is sending now more than 5W RMS to each speaker.

I did have a dumb thought to intercept the high level output from the sound bar and feed that back through a real amp, but then I would using Kmart budget sound bar as a preamp....not so sure on that....

As for the Velodynes, I firmly agree they are not "the best", but are HGS18s and I run their input through a digital eq to further dial them in. I really never planned for them to be music subs but running next to my modded/biamped RF-7s, I am mostly just trying to solidify the 15-60hz area anyway.

I will mention a good friend and fellow sound enthusiast built one of the meanest sounding RVs I've ever heard and he did it with our old school type thinking. Orion A/B amps, 4ohm mobile gear, 12" long travel sub, ported, and WAY over powered. All this with fidelity that blew my mind but that guy was always really good with component selection and tuning. I don't really 'need' those levels or trying to achieve that, but the closer the better.

I really think if I do mobile gear, I need to stick with class D amps, even if that gives up a little (doubt that with modern gear).

 

[lovinthehd]

Speakers sensitivity varies. Same for impedance at various frequencies. 5 wpc is usually quite sufficient for a fairly healthy output, especially at shorter distances, but still depends on sensitivity.

Converting speaker level to line level is likely to cause more issues than solve them.

Subs don't particularly need to be the best, just capable for the extension and spl goals you have with reasonable thd.

Details of what you need in way of gear for your goals will vary....

Some of the best amps available today are class d, and their size/efficiency are likely more suited for your environment in any case.

 

[viper1]

I was thinking I need to work on this systematically and the very first issue was a subwoofer. However, I was just doing some 'out of book' studying to realize there is a mechanical bay right under the living room area (front living room in a 5th is elevated and up front). This is not a storage bay and directly under the prime theater seats anyway.

Basically once I open some panels to get access to that space, I could throw even an 18" sub in there. But this is similar to a case like trunk mounted subs and I now need to better understand which frequencies can easily move through the plywood floor, and which would be lost due to not having the sub directly in the space? I used to know these things but been too long!!!! I want to say 80hz is about it?

Now I am just itching to throw something in there and see what it sounds like just for a test. It is very possible all the rattles will destroy this idea but I don't see another way without lots of work.

 

[lovinthehd]

I was thinking I need to work on this systematically and the very first issue was a subwoofer. However, I was just doing some 'out of book' studying to realize there is a mechanical bay right under the living room area (front living room in a 5th is elevated and up front). This is not a storage bay and directly under the prime theater seats anyway.

Basically once I open some panels to get access to that space, I could throw even an 18" sub in there. But this is similar to a case like trunk mounted subs and I now need to better understand which frequencies can easily move through the plywood floor, and which would be lost due to not having the sub directly in the space? I used to know these things but been too long!!!! I want to say 80hz is about it?

Now I am just itching to throw something in there and see what it sounds like just for a test. It is very possible all the rattles will destroy this idea but I don't see another way without lots of work.

I'd just assume any frequencies from your sub will easily travel thru the boundaries in an rv. Same for many "apartment" environs. As to what sub would work well for your use, I'd pick one more on extension/spl goals. Likely you just are mostly limited by the poor environment....

 

[highfigh]

Converting speaker level to line level is likely to cause more issues than solve them.

That depends on how it's done.

 

[highfigh]

I was thinking I need to work on this systematically and the very first issue was a subwoofer. However, I was just doing some 'out of book' studying to realize there is a mechanical bay right under the living room area (front living room in a 5th is elevated and up front). This is not a storage bay and directly under the prime theater seats anyway.

Basically once I open some panels to get access to that space, I could throw even an 18" sub in there. But this is similar to a case like trunk mounted subs and I now need to better understand which frequencies can easily move through the plywood floor, and which would be lost due to not having the sub directly in the space? I used to know these things but been too long!!!! I want to say 80hz is about it?

Now I am just itching to throw something in there and see what it sounds like just for a test. It is very possible all the rattles will destroy this idea but I don't see another way without lots of work.

Is multi-channel sound an absolute necessity? If it is, you could use a low profile AVR like a Marantz but that only has front and sub pre outs.

You can do a lot with a sub that's not 18"- it's about tuning, excursion and matching it to the volume of the space, not just diameter. Placed in a corner, a smaller sub can be very potent.

 

[viper1]

Is multi-channel sound an absolute necessity? If it is, you could use a low profile AVR like a Marantz but that only has front and sub pre outs.

You can do a lot with a sub that's not 18"- it's about tuning, excursion and matching it to the volume of the space, not just diameter. Placed in a corner, a smaller sub can be very potent.

I was only kidding about an 18, but was just conveying that there is space there! Like an unused car trunk! Once I saw that space, I realized that is likely the very best solution. I have been shopping for 2x12" and single 15" used goods out there.

Back when I was into car audio, the JL W3 DVC was 'the deal'. I was just reading on 15s and though there are other better high spl toys, it seems like the Rockfard p3 is very impressive for accuracy and only 600w rms.

Either of these solutions might turn out to be overkill for the space......but its a lot easier to turn down than up later. More than anything, I simply hate droning, noteless subs. Some old school 15s were just that!

On amps, one guy has this Orion class D amp. Orion was always a leader. I looked it up and it's a budget $200 amp! What happened to Orion? Or have amps just got that cheap and still run good?


Oh, on the multi. I am strongly considering ditching that whole idea. 2 serious full range speakers with a sub will fill that space easily. I was thinking of keeping this all 12V and installing a mobile head unit to run everything. ?? Basically two separate systems but I can just take this one out when I sell it and leave the OEM stuff in there.