Behringer ep4000 for H/T problems

[lovinthehd]

What do use for music listening?

I use either a stereo mode (2 ch with subs) or a surround upmix mode (like Dolby Surround or Dolby PLIIx)

 

[Jimbo96]

I use Dolby surround for movies, but never gave it a chance for music. I will have to give it a try.

 

[Eppie]

Thanks. I'm real close to giving up. I will know better after checking things with the new art box. I'm not a quitter, but this is getting ridicules.
I can't imagine what you guys are thinking while putting up with me.
I have done wild and crazy stuff with cars, but this is a whole new animal.

Responses depend a lot on whether someone is willing to heed advice or continue on the same path. If someone shows the interest to learn and take advantage of the knowledge and experience here, you'll find members tolerant and helpful. We've seen plenty of people who don't look for advice but just want affirmation and then continue with their folly. You seem to be the former so we're happy to point you in the right direction. This has been a learning experience for me too as I wasn't familiar with those bass drivers or the ArtBox and I hadn't looked into that particular model Behringer before.

 

[Jimbo96]

Thanks, I really appreciate you guys for putting up with me. I know I ask a lot of dumb questions. The new art box came in last evening, so I'm going to try this one more time. Fingers crossed something good will happen this time. I remember why I always use 7 channel stereo is because my active JBL sub makes a random ticking sound when there is little to no power going to it. The lights on top flash red to green and back again fast. I have two powered JBL active subs, each with their own problems. I was hoping this new project would let me get rid of them both.

 

[Eppie]

Thanks, I really appreciate you guys for putting up with me. I know I ask a lot of dumb questions. The new art box came in last evening, so I'm going to try this one more time. Fingers crossed something good will happen this time. I remember why I always use 7 channel stereo is because my active JBL sub makes a random ticking sound when there is little to no power going to it. The lights on top flash red to green and back again fast. I have two powered JBL active subs, each with their own problems. I was hoping this new project would let me get rid of them both.

I should have asked this much sooner but is there a chance that you got the polarity wrong on one of the voice coils? If you had connected the dual voice coils in parallel but connected the + and - together instead of the two +, that would explain the amp heating up but not getting output from the speakers. The two voice coils would be working in opposition to each other. If you connect them in series, then one of the - would connect to the + of the other so the amp connects to the + of one coil and the - of the other coil. With dual voice coils having the correct polarity is vital.

 

[Jimbo96]

I hate to admit it because I have wired many DVC speakers in the past. But you're right, not thinking, I did it. I hope I didn't hurt the amp with my stupidity. I can't believe I made that mistake. I'm really looking like an idiot now.

 

[Jimbo96]

Well....I'm back to square one! Luckily, I didn't ruin anything. I connected the new art box between the AVR and the Behringer. I can actually get some semi decent volume with everything turned all the way up. The problem is I get a BAD 60 cycle hum before half volume. I tried connecting the AVR directly to the amp and I still get a slight hum but very little volume at max. I truly don't know where to go now except scrap everything and not use pro audio in the system. It's sad because I was hoping for some ground shaking bass on a budget. I thought a new art box would be the answer, but it's as noisy as the used one. I think I'm going to go cry in my beer now! Lol

 

[TLS Guy]

I should have asked this much sooner but is there a chance that you got the polarity wrong on one of the voice coils? If you had connected the dual voice coils in parallel but connected the + and - together instead of the two +, that would explain the amp heating up but not getting output from the speakers. The two voice coils would be working in opposition to each other. If you connect them in series, then one of the - would connect to the + of the other so the amp connects to the + of one coil and the - of the other coil. With dual voice coils having the correct polarity is vital.

Good catch. I was pondering why the amp was heating up. The problem is that the VCs have been heated also, so the DC resistance of those VCs needs testing with a multimeter and comparing to spec. All that power heating up the amp was being expended in the VCs. Not good.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well....I'm back to square one! Luckily, I didn't ruin anything. I connected the new art box between the AVR and the Behringer. I can actually get some semi decent volume with everything turned all the way up. The problem is I get a BAD 60 cycle hum before half volume. I tried connecting the AVR directly to the amp and I still get a slight hum but very little volume at max. I truly don't know where to go now except scrap everything and not use pro audio in the system. It's sad because I was hoping for some ground shaking bass on a budget. I thought a new art box would be the answer, but it's as noisy as the used one. I think I'm going to go cry in my beer now! Lol

You don't know that yet. All that power was heating up the VCs. So you must now check the DC resistance of those VCs with a multimeter.

It sound as if you have a ground loop, which we will have to help you trace.

 

[Jimbo96]

Okay, sounds good, but I'm not sure what the best way to do that is.

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay, sounds good, but I'm not sure what the best way to do that is.

It is easy. You take your multimeter and measure the resistance between the + ve and - ve terminal of each VC in turn. Then you compare it to the published spec. If either, or both are below spec, then stop using that driver, as it will cause amp damage.

 

[Jimbo96]

Oh. Wasn't sure what you meant. I checked all 4 VCs. They all test a bit over 4 ohms.
I did wire them back to 2 ohms. The correct way this time for the test.
I noticed they fluctuated a little while testing, if that means anything. Not much, just a couple of 10ths

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh. Wasn't sure what you meant. I checked all 4 VCs. They all test a bit over 4 ohms.
I did wire them back to 2 ohms. The correct way this time for the test.
I noticed they fluctuated a little while testing, if that means anything. Not much, just a couple of 10ths

Unfortunately the DC resistance is not specked, however if the impedance of each coil is four ohms, I would have expected the DC resistance to be in the 3.2 to 3.5 range. The DC resistance is always lower than the impedance. At least it is not low, but there could still be damage to the coils.

 

[Jimbo96]

With them wired as separate drivers, I'm showing 2.4 ohms each. I know the drivers are wrong for deep bass, but didn't sound too bad turned up with the art box connected. I think they would be usable until I can get the driver you recommended and build the box, except for the terrible hum. The hum is horrible!

 

[TLS Guy]

With them wired as separate drivers, I'm showing 2.4 ohms each. I know the drivers are wrong for deep bass, but didn't sound too bad turned up with the art box connected. I think they would be usable until I can get the driver you recommended and build the box, except for the terrible hum. The hum is horrible!

So, you have a ground loop. A ground loop is a resistance between grounds. This gets the grounds to a different potential. This then causes a current to flow between the grounds, which causes the hum.

So need to know where all your grounds, are and what they are connected to. This includes any cable or Ethernet connections which contain grounds. So the solution is to get all grounds to the same potential.

 

[Jimbo96]

Okay, thanks. I will check it out. Is there anything you can do if the components don't have a ground. The art box has no ground.
I'm using two separate breakers in my house to power up everything. Would it be crazy to make a connection between the grounds on these separate outlets?
I can make plugs with only the ground wires connected. I don't even know if this will help. Just a thought.

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay, thanks. I will check it out. Is there anything you can do if the components don't have a ground. The art box has no ground.
I'm using two separate breakers in my house to power up everything. Would it be crazy to make a connection between the grounds on these separate outlets?
I can make plugs with only the ground wires connected. I don't even know if this will help. Just a thought.

The art box, is not likely the problem since it will likely be double insulated and not designed to have a ground. I would not bond the outlets, but I would recommend robustly bonding the grounds of those units connected to different outlets. This could well be your issue.

 

[Jimbo96]

This is probably another crazy question. I'm gun shy now after trying my own methods that keep going bad. If I don't connect the grounds on the power cords, how do I ground these together. There is no ground spots that I can see unless I just connect the housings together. Are the metal housings a good place to ground to?

 

[TLS Guy]

This is probably another crazy question. I'm gun shy now after trying my own methods that keep going bad. If I don't connect the grounds on the power cords, how do I ground these together. There is no ground spots that I can see unless I just connect the housings together. Are the metal housings a good place to ground to?

Yes, and that is why metal racks work so well, as if you scrape off a little paint the gear is really bonded. If you are going to bond gear you have to use thick copper braid. My racks are bonded with really heavy gauge copper braid.

In our former residence I did it this way.

When I moved the gear to our new location I made darn sure I used high quality racks.

Everything is bonded with heavy copper braid right back to the panel.

That keeps this lot quiet as a mouse.

When you are trouble shooting, it is best to remove, or as they say lift one ground at time, to see which ones are the culprits, or lift all the grounds, and couple them back one at a time to find the offenders. A logical carefully planned approach will always solve the problem. Just some sleuthing is required. All ground loop problems are solvable, and you don't have to throw money at it.

 

[Jimbo96]

Awesome! I will do that. Thanks