BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I'm a skeptic of the practicality of EVs for all.
As you should be! You brought up what I think are some excellent points. This is far better than the whining on Facebook where people just scream that they love their gas guzzling car and they are happy they will be dead before they are forced to get rid of it. Whatever.

Electric certainly isn't going to be for everyone and I swear that it is far more ideal for those who have access to a second vehicle in their home. Either a spouse, or a family member/friend they could borrow something for when they have to do long trips. I think if your introduction to EVs is when you are travelling and driving all the time, and don't have your own home charger to utilize, then a bad experience wouldn't surprise me in the least. Renting and hoping the hotel has an open charger is a gamble. But, owning, and having a charger at home... that's quite different.

Still, the real barricade will be those that want to go EV, but can't because there really aren't enough chargers to go around. Apartment dwellers, those who have street-only parking. It will take them years to figure out solutions for these individuals.

Alternative fuels may also eventually be a thing.

I think that it's important for many to realize how disruptive electric is to a well established market. Kind of like how the Internet has turned so many industries on their heads. The introduction of the EV throws the entire ICE ecosystem on its head. I could see a point where we owned both an EV and a hybrid exclusively. But, I have a hard time figuring out how we will get to a point where people are able to actually live entirely with an EV as their single means of transportation... at least until we see sub-10 minute charging times and far more chargers available, at a reasonable price.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Less stuff to break, but much harder and more expensive to fix. You need a tech AND a software guy now. We joked with one of our friends that his Tesla spent as much time on the flatbed as the road. Because when you have an issue with an EV, it is usually going to leave you stuck and you can only flatbed them.
Nah, this is even true for modern ICE cars. There is an excellent YT channel called Pine Hollow Diagnostics.
The dude has Masters's degree in Electrics engineering. He's capable of tackling and successfully resolving any weird electronic issue modern cars have, including (quite often) programming different car computers.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Nah, this is even true for modern ICE cars. There is an excellent YT channel called Pine Hollow Diagnostics.
The dude has Masters's degree in Electrics engineering. He's capable of tackling and successfully resolving any weird electronic issue modern cars have, including (quite often) programming different car computers.
Absolutely it is true for current model ICE cars because they want to be similar to what you get in an EV now. The screens, look and technology suites are so similar now. This sort of person capable of troubleshooting is not the norm though. Troubleshooting for some of these issues is just plug in a laptop and the car can tell you what is wrong there for sure, but not every issue is like that.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Battery is the new gold. VW says that, but Panasonic is also building battery factories in the US and they are currently the leader.

Polestar is starting to manufacture their vehicles in the US, batteries currently are not. I believe the will start sourcing North America batteries though in order to get the full tax credit. I understand that if the battery is at least assembled here, you get half the tax credit.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
There are dozens of battery technologies going on. Some maybe come to market sooner, others will take years. My company is involved in many of those technologies.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
There are dozens of battery technologies going on. Some maybe come to market sooner, others will take years. My company is involved in many of those technologies.
Good and hopefully some of them will minimize China'a involvement !
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
In the past month or two, I've started to think about getting an electric vehicle (EV). I now own a 2000 Volvo S70, with 140,000 miles. It's aging, but I've kept it in a garage, and the engine and transmission are in excellent condition. It has manual transmission, gets ~26 mpg in local stop & go driving, and ~32 mpg on the highway. That gives it as much as 500+ miles driving range on a tank of gas, if 5th gear is used.

I much prefer manual transmission over automatic. All but one car I've owned has had manual transmission. I really like my Volvo in general; it's front seats are excellent, by far the best I've ever owned. This S70 (4-door sedan) dates from before Ford Motors' purchased Volvo (their cost cutting efforts took a big toll on Volvo's performance and interior comfort). Ford gave up after a few years, selling Volvo to a Chinese holding company who claimed they wanted to manage the money, while they turned engineering back to the Volvo people.

Manual vs. automatic transmission seems to now be a problem. Fewer and fewer cars come with manual transmission. I've seen advertising claiming modern automatic transmissions actually get better mileage than manuals. I doubt that. I also know from years of experience that manual transmission gives me much better speed control of a car, especially when driving in snow or ice. People who only drive automatics don't understand the large effect engine breaking has with standard transmission. Finally, I find driving an automatic is simply boring. A car with manual transmission keeps me much more involved in driving – something I like.

My initial thought about EVs came about because of the transmission thing. Instead of a car with an internal combustion engine, or hybrid, with an automatic transmission, I wondered if an EV might be more acceptable. I figured, why not go all in instead of half-way in? I have not test driven an EV, so, that's a big unanswered question.

The same thinking goes for the lack of a conventional dashboard. The most recent Tesla models seem to have all their instrument panel on a large video screen, off to the driver's right. It will take loosing some old habits and learning new ones to get used to that. Why not jump in all the way, instead of going half-way in?

And, as I get older, seating comfort, and especially ease of getting in & out of a car, become more important. Too many modern cars can be a problem for me, where my Volvo is quite easy to get in & out.

The other VERY BIG issue for any EV, is driving range. I've looked into Tesla Model Y and Model 3. So far, the Model Y looks good, on paper. The dual motor, AWD version of the Model Y is said to have a range of 326 miles. However, the high price, about $60,000, is a potential show-stopper. The smaller Model 3 (also with dual motors) can go as far as 353 miles, and costs ~$50,000. Still very high. I'll have to try both the 3 and the Y before I know which size works best for me. If I go for an EV, I will get a 240 Volt recharger for my garage. So, I have to add that cost to that of the car.

What other EVs are worth looking into? What about plug-in hybrids?

What things decrease EV range?
  • EV energy consumption is highly dependent on speed. For example, the very expensive Tesla Model S requires 10 kW (14 hp) at 70 mph (110 km/h), and 31 kW (42 hp) at 100 mph (160 km/h).

  • Climate control, battery conditioning, etc. may consume 15-25%, depending on outside temperature. EVs can lose ≥40% of their range in cold weather, at ≤20°F (-7°C) when heating the interior cabin. Some EVs use heat pumps (such as the Tesla Model Y and Model 3). That should be more energy efficient in cold weather than other EVs with resistance heaters. What about air conditioning in hot weather? Will a heat pump result in less energy consumption than standard air conditioning compressors? What about power windows, adjustable seats, or heated seats?

  • Tires – EVs are heavy compared to similar sized internal combustion vehicles (ICV). The added weight is due to the batteries. Tires must be larger for that. Low rolling resistance is critical for EVs. In addition, electric motors have more low RPM torque than IC engines. More stress on tires. Finally, because EVs are so quiet compared to ICVs, tire road noise becomes more noticeable. As a result, tires are larger, have low rolling resistance, must run quieter, and are probably more expensive. Will they require more frequent replacement too?
What else should I know about EVs? I have not yet driven any EV, so my opinion about them is not yet formed.
I have been testing BMW i4 M50, BMW iX, Jaguar iPace and driving experience is nice with that instant power….. I currently drive a BMW730d, quite old one but it has everything….. The UX of most new electric cars are insane poor though IMHO; on BMW iX you need to go into the on screen menu to adjust some cruise control settings, things I now can do with buttons on steering wheel. On screen menu to adjust aircon fan speed

IMHO: Many new cars seem to take coolness above usability, do you see core flights settins like bleed air settings in an on screen menu on a Boieing 787? Airbus is strongly on fly by wire but there is still buttons for everything.

I will go EV eventually but I really dislike that poor UX of those new cars where coolness comes at a safety risk!
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
There are dozens of battery technologies going on. Some maybe come to market sooner, others will take years. My company is involved in many of those technologies.
If you're in the industry, are you familiar with Novonix? One of my closest friends works for them at their facility near where I live. They also have a facility in Chattanooga.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
If you're in the industry, are you familiar with Novonix? One of my closest friends works for them at their facility near where I live. They also have a facility in Chattanooga.
I'm in silicon valley, where companies are trying out new battery chemistries and manufacturing methods. Some stuff that is viable, some that hasn't been proven and some that are still moonshot ideas. Much of the tech that goes into chip making and solar panels can be applied to batteries so a lot of R&D places already have the ability to test ideas.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Electric vehicles are not the best solution, when you are subjected to an electric power failure for several days. No electric power and no transportation, unless you can afford an electric generator powerful enough to recharge your battery.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Electric vehicles are not the best solution, when you are subjected to an electric power failure for several days. No electric power and no transportation, unless you can afford an electric generator powerful enough to recharge your battery.
as an FYI, electric power failure = no way for the pumps to run at the gas station also, just saying ........
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
as an FYI, electric power failure = no way for the pumps to run at the gas station also, just saying ........
When I was stationed in southern Italy in 1972-73, electric power failures were common. All gas stations seemed to have modern electric pumps could that could also deliver gasoline (benzina in Italian) by a hand crank. I was much younger, but it took a lot of elbow grease to pump 40 liters, about 10 gallons. I was glad my car was small.

Does anyone know if gas pumps of today still have the hand crank option built-in?
 
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panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Electric vehicles are not the best solution, when you are subjected to an electric power failure for several days. No electric power and no transportation, unless you can afford an electric generator powerful enough to recharge your battery.
Lots of folks are getting solar on their houses now, so power outages are becoming less of an issue for some.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
Lots of folks are getting solar on their houses now, so power outages are becoming less of an issue for some.
People here in Norway that are installing solar panels are crazy busy, some areas are Energy positive in the sense that they return more power to the grid than what they consume :cool:
 
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