EX-PRESIDENT INDICTED

[Trell]

 

[Swerd]

Planned an insurrection vs knew it might get violent are different things. That's why I think it's the latter and trying to prove it is more difficult. To me that falls under dereliction of duty. Trump's comments like "they should have hanged Pence" or "I hear it could get violent" etc echo that IMO. Stop the Steal and the rally on the day. Then saying be "peaceful" before going to the Capitol given Trump's temperament I don't believe. Plus Trump knew who is audience was: the alt-right.

Are you saying it's OK to plan an insurrection as long as it doesn't get violent? Overthrowing the US Government is most definitely a federal felony. It's called sedition. Failed attempts at sedition are still sedition. There is no distinction between violent and non-violent sedition – there is no such thing as aggravated sedition.

Trump clearly demonstrated on 6 Jan 2021 that he will directly violate the US Constitution. He has more recently threatened to do it again. What more do you need to know?

 

[Dude#1279435]

Are you saying it's OK to plan an insurrection as long as it doesn't get violent? Overthrowing the US Government is most definitely a federal felony. It's called sedition. Failed attempts at sedition are still sedition. There is no distinction between violent and non-violent sedition – there is no such thing as aggravated sedition.

Trump clearly demonstrated on 6 Jan 2021 that he will directly violate the US Constitution. He has more recently threatened to do it again. What more do you need to know?

No, I was saying I don't think he would "plan" it out and leave a trail for investigators to find. Or he would simply use a burner phone. I believe it was more like pushing the Stop the Steal BS cause he knew the alt-right would riot.

But there's the issue legally of if Trump even thought the election was legitimate. His narcissism doesn't really allow it even though people were advising him there was no evidence of corruption. But maybe that line of thinking doesn't even apply legally?

 

[Swerd]

No, I was saying I don't think he would "plan" it out and leave a trail for investigators to find. Or he would simply use a burner phone. I believe it was more like pushing the Stop the Steal BS cause he knew the alt-right would riot.

Pushing the Stop the Steal BS cause he knew the alt-right would riot is still inciting sedition (aka among lawyers as seditious conspiracy). And that alone will be enough to convict Trump. If I remember correctly, there is enough evidence that Trump had more than a belief that the alt-right would riot, he knew in advance of 6 Jan. that they would riot. This is enough to indict him for seditious conspiracy, and it looks to me (a non-lawyer) like it's enough to convince a jury too.

Sedition and seditious conspiracy are very serious felonies, punishable by up to 20 years in prison. Ask the Oath Keepers, they've already been convicted and have begun serving their sentences. The Proud Boys will soon follow them. They were the goons who (ineptly) carried out what their 'Chief' wanted them to do. The next time Trump or his admirers try this, you can expect them to be less inept than their previous effort.

 

[Trell]

An uplifting, sort of, take on the criminal Republican VP Spiro Agnew.

>>>Rachel Maddow looks at some of the parallels between Donald Trump's reaction to being indicted and how Spiro Agnew and his supporters reacted to Agnew's indictment. <<<

 

[Dude#1279435]

Pushing the Stop the Steal BS cause he knew the alt-right would riot is still inciting sedition. And that alone will be enough to convict Trump. If I remember correctly, there is enough evidence that Trump had more than a belief that the alt-right would riot, he knew in advance of 6 Jan. that they would riot. This is enough to indict him for seditious conspiracy, and it looks to me (a non-lawyer) like it's enough to convince a jury too.

Sedition and seditious conspiracy are very serious felonies, punishable by up to 20 years in prison. Ask the Oath Keepers, they've already been convicted. The Proud Boys will follow soon. They were only following what their 'Chief' wanted them to do.

I'm saying it's in the language he uses. He didn't say, Storm the Capitol and riot! He's using vague terms to get himself off the hook like Fight like hell! I think like you said he knew they would get violent in advance, but it's not easy to prove in court because you need a trail, like advisors warning him, internet use tracking etc. There's even a point in his speech I believe where he says be "peaceful." Many would rush to his side and say that's why he didn't intend to. But I don't buy it given Stop the Steal, his rally next to the Capitol, the alt-right, and his hate speak and temperament. Can I prove it w/o a shadow of a doubt? No, but that doesn't mean I think he didn't.

 

[Dude#1279435]

I don't see this being much different than the OJ trial. Because OJ was either acquitted or found not guilty doesn't mean I personally think he's innocent.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Minute 42 of 71 minute speech at the rally. Sorry but not seeing anything in his speech suggesting anything. He's loud and annoying as heck and goes on and on about the steal. But nothing otherwise. I'm starting to wonder if he wasn't right about states wanting to recertify their votes and the upper courts wouldn't allow it. PA was the one state that bothers me. I'd have to research it.

 

[jinjuku]

Not quite the same, no hush money was involved with dubious record keeping.
And, he paid the price of impeachment and embarrassment of family.
Trump is paying for how he paid, not the affair.

I would disagree with not being illegal to hide the severity of COVID especially when he knew it as he was recorded on record how much he knew and how early.
Dereliction of duty that caused countless human lives. That alone should have been an impeachment.

You make good points.

 

[ellisr63]

What about him having the metal detectors taken down? To me he knew the protestors were armed (his own eyes would have seen this when he was speaking), and by having the metal detectors removed or turned off acknowledges his intent to make it violent.

 

[Dude#1279435]

What about him having the metal detectors taken down? To me he knew the protestors were armed (his own eyes would have seen this when he was speaking), and by having the metal detectors removed or turned off acknowledges his intent to make it violent.

Shows you what I know.

 

[Dude#1279435]

This one too...

New Jan. 6 panel evidence shows Trump altered his post-Capitol riot speech

Several former Trump aides said in interviews that they pushed the president to put out a stronger statement on Jan. 7 condemning the riot.

www.politico.com

 

[Dude#1279435]

This one doesn't look too good either....

New evidence shows Trump toned down his condemnation of the deadly Capitol attack

New evidence shared by the Jan. 6 committee shows then-President Donald Trump edited a speech that was aimed at strongly condemning the deadly attack on the Capitol last year.

www.tpr.org

 

[Dude#1279435]

Good one from Bolton on his warning against Trump getting the nomination.

Ok I'm done. Someone else can chime in.

 

[Dude#1279435]

 

[mtrycrafts]

He's rather cash poor and debt laden is probably a big reason. He and his family have grifted plenty during his presidency.



The grift cash cow goes on.....

Time for him to start selling properties.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Are you saying it's OK to plan an insurrection as long as it doesn't get violent? Overthrowing the US Government is most definitely a federal felony. It's called sedition. Failed attempts at sedition are still sedition. There is no distinction between violent and non-violent sedition – there is no such thing as aggravated sedition.

Trump clearly demonstrated on 6 Jan 2021 that he will directly violate the US Constitution. He has more recently threatened to do it again. What more do you need to know?

Just as a failed bank robbery or a failed murder or any other failure committing a crime is still a crime. Lots of people are in jail for such failures.

If he doesn't end up in jail or felony convictions out the ying-yang a future president can really destroy our democracy.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm saying it's in the language he uses. He didn't say, Storm the Capitol and riot! ...

Mob bosses don't say it so clearly and he was friends with a number of them and taught well. Listen to Michael Cohen how he describes his knowing what the boss wants without being so clear.

 

[isolar8001]

Myself, I feel it's time to do away with the whole concept of a "President".
It just harkens back to the egotistical nature of politics in general.
But, that egotistical, ancient and misguided piece of paper known as The Constitution says we have to have one.
Time to do away with that piece of paper also.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Reported that MTG will be present during Trump's Tuesday speech LOL.