Would you consider purchasing 10,000USD speakers from an internet direct company?

[highfigh]

Yep the more features you cram into a device the higher the odds it goes bad , sadly basic is a rarity in the Audio world . I had an avr die this year that was barely used , and yet one I use daily is going strong.
so what-percentage of electronic are lemons and then which last far longer .

And this is a good case for designing modular equipment, which the manufacturers COULD HAVE BEEN doing all along, but they want to push higher dollar boxes out the door, not deliver convenience and sensibly designed products that can be upgraded when the time for part of it has become obsolete (like EVERY HDMI board).

 

[TLS Guy]

You think the manufacturers will make two versions of each speaker?

Absolutely not! Because you get design choices you can not get from passive speakers. These newer speakers will have no passive solution.

 

[TLS Guy]

And powered speaker are of no use to your system with it dies.

But the whole system won't die. One speaker or one driver in a speaker might die, but it will be easily repaired by the owner. The key will be having parts at the ready.

I think I have made Thorbjorn understand that. There is no way that a customer is going to repair a receiver. Although if receivers had been sensibly designed I think they could have. Anyhow, too late now as receivers are soon to be extinct.

 

[TLS Guy]

I used to own the awesome Linkwitz Orion. There was only ONE CABLE going from the amp to the speaker, even though each tower was powered by four channels of awesome ATI amps. The late Siegfried Linkwitz (RIP) was TRULY a great thinker and speaker designer and electrical engineer. He didn’t just built some speakers inside his garage and try to convince everyone that he was a good speaker designer like you. He built speakers for many people across the world. He was not rigid minded like you, trying to convince everyone that you HAVE TO put all these things inside the speakers and not giving people the freedom to choose their own amps if they wanted to.

Learn from the great Siegfried Linkwitz - external amps, external XO/DSP/EQ, ONE CABLE connecting the amps to each FULL-RANGE tower.

I don't just build speakers in my garage. My speakers are carefully thought out and designed, tested and measured, just like any designer would.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Would I consider buying $10,000 speakers (or other) from an online company?

I think there are several things that I would need to take into account.

I don't think first is the brand name or necessarily their reputation. But, I think most important would be in-nation support. I read FAR too much information about people who buy product from overseas, then are shocked when they have to ship it back to the originating country, on their own dime, when it has an issue. I think this is especially the case for speakers, and moreso for active speakers.

Where would I need to send them if I had an issue? If I didn't like them in my setup, where would they need to be returned to, and would that return expense be out of my pocket?

I would say that the second thing would be that I would expect a reasonable return policy on the product. If I can't audition them in person, then I need to audition them in my home. If they aren't to my satisfaction, then I certainly don't want to be stuck with them in my home forever. My intent would be to treat the product fairly, but I also expect a balance.

From there, the third thing would be the reputation of the company itself. If they are known for high quality parts and products, then that would pretty much make it tough direction to go. I mean, if the first and second criteria is met, then I want to ensure that I'm dealing with a fair and honest company. If there are complaints of product failures, or of bad build quality, then obviously I'm not buying anything. But, if the company is well regarded, which it sounds like is the case, then it helps to make up my mind.

I think this is a tough one for a non-US based company that doesn't have a footprint in the USA at all. I'm not sure how much product is sold in the USA, or how much demand there would be, but that's likely where my direction would be first. To establish a foothold for a service partner in the USA, and a store/showroom that could support my overseas product in the USA. Even if it's a limited store with only a few locations. Just having a place where residents could return a product to without it being international shipping would be a huge plus. It may offer some the ability to hear them in person as well, which is great for them, but it allows for in-country service and returns which is absolutely huge.

Thank you for interesting reflections and feedback!

I would like to comment on your points, but start with a small sidestep: I suspect many think of buying directly from a manufacturer online as a quite impersonal experience, as opposed to going to a dealer. In practice, the opposite can be true. More often than not, customers reach out to me via chat or email to ask questions about the products. Since I'm obviously passionate about my own products, I value this interactions both as an opportunity to explain why they're awesome, but also as a chance to ensure the customer gets the most out of them. So we often discuss their system and rooms and various details around the introduction of new equipment into their current system. Sometimes I actively discourage them from buying as it doesn't feel like the right fit for one reason or other. Establishing communication like this also makes both parties inclined to be solution oriented if an issue should arise in the future.

So, to your points:

1. What if there is an issue. We have several ways of working this out, and I would go into dialogue with the customer to figure out the best solution. They could service it themselves with parts shipped to them, we could arrange for a local third party to do it, it could be shipped to a partner of us elsewhere in the US if a suitable local third party is unvailable, or worst case it could be shipped back to us (last resort). In all of the above situations, we would cover everything within warranty, and only charge cost if something happens out of warranty.

2. Return policy: We have a 60 day audition period. Within this period the product can be returned and your money will be returned in full as long as the product is not damaged. Having products shipped back from other countries of course come with a significant cost to us, so we have decided to put a flat return fee of 100USD for returns to cover some of the cost, and ensure people give the product a fair chance before returning.

3. Local dealers / showrooms: We are looking into / experimenting with this. I hope we don't have to go full blown distributor/dealership model, but that we can as you suggest have a few select showrooms to help raise awareness of the brand, have showrooms where people can listen + buy, and to have a few service points.

 

[highfigh]

Absolutely not! Because you get design choices you can not get from passive speakers. These newer speakers will have no passive solution.

I meant WRT onboard electronics vs in a rack, not passive vs active.

 

[highfigh]

And powered speaker are of no use to your system with it dies.

That's only if they're designed to be but if, let's call it a 'plate amp' for simplicity, fails and the DSP/amplifier are modular and made to be installed/removed separately, it's easy (remove a few screws and disconnect the harness so the new/improved module can be installed). Go to a website for Guitar Center, Sweetwater or any other major dealer of 'studio monitors' (real, or the cheap ones) and look at the speakers from KRK, M-Audio, Dynaudio, etc- they have a plate amp with crossover and power amplification for each band. It's not new, it's just not seen much in consumer audio.

 

[highfigh]

I don't just build speakers in my garage. My speakers are carefully thought out and designed, tested and measured, just like any designer would.

That can't be done in a garage?

 

[TLS Guy]

That can't be done in a garage?

Well of course it could, but I keep my vehicles in the garage!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You think the manufacturers will make two versions of each speaker?

No, I think this will be custom builds like with Linkwitz Lab, RBH, Legacy Audio, etc.

I don’t think the majority of the Audio population will be buying active speaker systems that cost $10K+, do you?

 

[TLS Guy]

No, I think this will be custom builds like with Linkwitz Lab, RBH, Legacy Audio, etc.

I don’t think the majority of the Audio population will be buying active speaker systems that cost $10K+, do you?

Well, what does it cost to purchase two really good speakers, two subs and a high end power amp? That is 10 K or more. Or you can buy a receiver that you will be lucky to get seven years use from. Receivers are passive speakers are a very expensive and wasteful proposition over the long haul.

As I said it won't be long before you don't need a receiver or AVP at all, just speakers, your mobile phone or laptop and good Ethernet backbone in your house. That is coming. Current AV technology is awkward in the extreme and ugly. Most systems shown here have some not very good furniture, in fact lets be honest, really ugly, crammed with black or silver boxes, cables galore, big speakers and ugly boxes. The wife wants it out of there. Then you wonder why the choice is a miserable sound bar.

I think elegant design went out of the window, somewhere between 1960 and 1970. So now enthusiasts have come to expect a bunch of ugly boxes. Let me tell you divorce is more than 10K. One of the pressing needs of this hobby is to return to elegant design.

 

[highfigh]

No, I think this will be custom builds like with Linkwitz Lab, RBH, Legacy Audio, etc.

I don’t think the majority of the Audio population will be buying active speaker systems that cost $10K+, do you?

No, but if you look at the number of speakers that already exist in the market that sell for more than $10K each, it might be surprising to get an idea about how many might be interested. With the wealth created in the investment and real estate markets in the last 30 years, there's a helluva lot of discretionary income out there.

 

[highfigh]

Well of course it could, but I keep my vehicles in the garage!

You do, but when someone has one garage and can't make it larger because of local building codes, they have to do what's practical and affordable. I park in my garage too, but my table saw is mobile and sits ahead of my vehicle when I'm not using it. It's about 4' deep and 8' long with the extension table and 7' rails, my band saw is at the side wall, dust collector is in the corner, my jointer & planer have their own places, too.

You said you don't build speakers in your garage- are you actually the one moving, cutting the material and assembling them, or does someone else do the heavy work? If you use MDF or something similar, I suspect someone else moves it, considering that stuff weighs >100lb/sheet.

 

[highfigh]

Well, what does it cost to purchase two really good speakers, two subs and a high end power amp? That is 10 K or more. Or you can buy a receiver that you will be lucky to get seven years use from. Receivers are passive speakers are a very expensive and wasteful proposition over the long haul.

As I said it won't be long before you don't need a receiver or AVP at all, just speakers, your mobile phone or laptop and good Ethernet backbone in your house. That is coming. Current AV technology is awkward in the extreme and ugly. Most systems shown here have some not very good furniture, in fact lets be honest, really ugly, crammed with black or silver boxes, cables galore, big speakers and ugly boxes. The wife wants it out of there. Then you wonder why the choice is a miserable sound bar.

I think elegant design went out of the window, somewhere between 1960 and 1970. So now enthusiasts have come to expect a bunch of ugly boxes. Let me tell you divorce is more than 10K. One of the pressing needs of this hobby is to return to elegant design.

Interior detonators will still hate to see this stuff, regardless of how good it looks. It's all about THEM, not the client and their things.

I agree, though- industrial design doesn't need to mean that something will be ugly but I think students are being taught that if something doesn't look modern, it's not a good design. I think that's wrong. I would like to see comments from art and design school teachers about your Quad equipment- I'm not sure they would approve and if that's the case, I would strongly disagree.

 

[TLS Guy]

You do, but when someone has one garage and can't make it larger because of local building codes, they have to do what's practical and affordable. I park in my garage too, but my table saw is mobile and sits ahead of my vehicle when I'm not using it. It's about 4' deep and 8' long with the extension table and 7' rails, my band saw is at the side wall, dust collector is in the corner, my jointer & planer have their own places, too.

You said you don't build speakers in your garage- are you actually the one moving, cutting the material and assembling them, or does someone else do the heavy work? If you use MDF or something similar, I suspect someone else moves it, considering that stuff weighs >100lb/sheet.

In all my houses I have a had a workshop, including this one. In the current one, it has large doors that can ne opened to the outside. However, I no longer cur boards. I now make careful plans and then go to a C & C shop and have them cut the MDF in minutes after the dimensions are loaded in the computer. No need to inhale MDF dust any longer.

That is the way to do it.

 

[highfigh]

In all my houses I have a had a workshop, including this one. In the current one, it has large doors that can ne opened to the outside. However, I no longer cur boards. I now make careful plans and then go to a C & C shop and have them cut the MDF in minutes after the dimensions are loaded in the computer. No need to inhale MDF dust any longer.

That is the way to do it.

You must be aware that not everyone can afford that kind of setup. If you aren't, you need to meet more people or go into politics.

The world isn't perfect- if it were, I would have a huge shop, with separate areas for different functions and the best equipment, although I really can't complain about the tools and machines I have because I took the time for proper setup.

 

[TLS Guy]

Interior detonators will still hate to see this stuff, regardless of how good it looks. It's all about THEM, not the client and their things.

I agree, though- industrial design doesn't need to mean that something will be ugly but I think students are being taught that if something doesn't look modern, it's not a good design. I think that's wrong. I would like to see comments from art and design school teachers about your Quad equipment- I'm not sure they would approve and if that's the case, I would strongly disagree.

Interesting you should say that. Peter Walker was awarded the Queen's design award for the Quad 33, FMs, and 303 combo in 1969. He received it from the Duke of Edinburgh. In 1978 he received the Queen's award for technological achievement.

His equipment is really easy to mount elegantly in furniture or in panel.

In years passed I saw many elegant installations using Quad equipment.

 

[highfigh]

Interesting you should say that. Peter Walker was awarded the Queen's design award for the Quad 33, FMs, and 303 combo in 1969. He received it from the Duke of Edinburgh. In 1978 he received the Queen's award for technological achievement.

His equipment is really easy to mount elegantly in furniture or in panel.

In years passed I saw many elegant installations using Quad equipment.

I always liked the look of Quad, since I first saw it in the '70s after getting into selling audio. Most vintage equipment just looks old, but this is much more timeless. I hated the equipment that had all kinds and colors of lights and things that were great for getting peoples' attention but served no other real purpose, other than illumination.

I really think that if they had decided to add it, someone would have installed a spinning propeller on their receivers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

2. No, but if you look at the number of speakers that already exist in the market that sell for more than $10K each, it might be surprising to get an idea about how many might be interested.

1. With the wealth created in the investment and real estate markets in the last 30 years, there's a helluva lot of discretionary income out there.

1. Just for fun, do you feel the percentage of people buying $10K bookshelf speakers will increase over time? For example, if 10% buy >$10K speakers today, will it be 15% or 20% in 10 years?

2. I think the people who already own >$10K PASSIVE speakers today could have already owned active speakers if they wanted to. For example, I did buy a pair of brand new Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1 towers about 9 years ago for $10K. Active speakers have been around for over 30 years. Has anything changed in the past few years that would make you feel the industry is headed for a drastic change toward active speakers in the next 30 years? Good or bad, what I see are more and more soundbars and 11CH and 15CH AVR and 16CH external amps.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

1. Just for fun, do you feel the percentage of people buying $10K bookshelf speakers will increase over time? For example, if 10% buy >$10K speakers today, will it be 15% or 20% in 10 years?

2. I think the people who already own >$10K PASSIVE speakers today could have already owned active speakers if they wanted to. For example, I did buy a pair of brand new Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1 towers about 9 years ago for $10K. Active speakers have been around for over 30 years. Has anything changed in the past few years that would make you feel the industry is headed for a drastic change toward active speakers in the next 30 years? Good or bad, what I see are more and more soundbars and 11CH and 15CH AVR and 16CH external amps.

Question wasn't directed to me, but I'd say we're definitely seeing more active speakers (even for the traditional/conservative brands) than before, and I'd also say a larger percentage of the smaller companies are offering active speakers. Some doing quite interesting things not even possible with a passive approach, like Kii, Dutch, etc.

Especially the fact that the larger companies have a wider offering of actives indicates that there's a positive trend in the number of active speakers. But it will probably be a slow shift.