Would you consider purchasing 10,000USD speakers from an internet direct company?

[highfigh]

1. Just for fun, do you feel the percentage of people buying $10K bookshelf speakers will increase over time? For example, if 10% buy >$10K speakers today, will it be 15% or 20% in 10 years?

2. I think the people who already own >$10K PASSIVE speakers today could have already owned active speakers if they wanted to. For example, I did buy a pair of brand new Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1 towers about 9 years ago for $10K. Active speakers have been around for over 30 years. Has anything changed in the past few years that would make you feel the industry is headed for a drastic change toward active speakers in the next 30 years? Good or bad, what I see are more and more soundbars and 11CH and 15CH AVR and 16CH external amps.

Whether the percentage will increase depends on whether people will be allowed to keep their discretionary income. If the Social Security plan that has resurfaced actually happens, a a lot of people will be taxed more heavily than at any time since the '60s.

Active speakers have been around longer than 30 years. Jamo had their MFB speakers in the late-70s and they were triamped. That was before DSP, but they had twelve band graphic EQ. I think Phillips had their own active speakers, too.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Active speakers have been around longer than 30 years. Jamo had their MFB speakers in the late-70s and they were triamped. That was before DSP, but they had twelve band graphic EQ. I think Phillips had their own active speakers, too.

That’s part of my point. Active speakers have been around for over 30 years. In the age where more and more people buy soundbars and 15CH AVR, I just don’t see how any MORE people will be spending $10K on any active bookshelf + more on separate subs.

It will only be a niche market just like over 30 years ago.

 

[highfigh]

That’s part of my point. Active speakers have been around for over 30 years. In the age where more and more people buy soundbars and 15CH AVR, I just don’t see how any MORE people will be spending $10K on any active bookshelf + more on separate subs.

It will only be a niche market just like over 30 years ago.

Look at industry data- many companies are still making very expensive speakers, so taking a model that's close to their TOTL and adding the electronics isn't really that much of a stretch. If they look to the future and see active as a goal for more models, the investment in the system can pay off but the reality is, speaker manufacturers aren't in the amplifier/DSP business, so they might need to work wit someone else, but that removes partial control over the finished product. Imagine a speaker company that sells active speakers and then, the manufacturer of the electronics has supply problems or stops production for some other reason that's outside of their control.

Again, it's about convenience, for many people. They can't be bothered with setting up more than a few PnP parts, never mind the selection and learning curve required for a full blown AV system.

The population isn't declining, BTW- some of the people who are entering the market have a lot of money and as we have seen, some formats and equipment have become popular, after long periods of being relegated to the archives.

KEF's Blade were $30K when Stereophile reviewed them in 2015 and they aren't even the TOTL. Look at B&W, Dynaudio, JBL, etc- they all make speakers that sell in this range, have continued to make changes and introduce high priced models and it doesn't appear that they plan to stop. Looking at the $10K market, how much would the amplifiers/DSP add to the price? Remove the boxes that would have served those purposes and it would probably cost less than the standard system. People will have to stop trying to best their buddies with power specs, though.

 

[highfigh]

That’s part of my point. Active speakers have been around for over 30 years. In the age where more and more people buy soundbars and 15CH AVR, I just don’t see how any MORE people will be spending $10K on any active bookshelf + more on separate subs.

It will only be a niche market just like over 30 years ago.

Returning to the comment so many have made about wanting to hear the music "the same as in the studio"- if they want it that way, they need to get some active speakers because recording studios have used them for a long time, from brands most people have never heard of.

 

[cpp]

No, I think this will be custom builds like with Linkwitz Lab, RBH, Legacy Audio, etc.

I don’t think the majority of the Audio population will be buying active speaker systems that cost $10K+, do you?

Nope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Trell]

Returning to the comment so many have made about wanting to hear the music "the same as in the studio"- if they want it that way, they need to get some active speakers because recording studios have used them for a long time, from brands most people have never heard of.

And those studios also have a lot of acoustic treatments that very few living rooms have as well, never mind designed rooms that @TLS Guy have in his new home.

 

[highfigh]

And those studios also have a lot of acoustic treatments that very few living rooms have as well, never mind designed rooms that @TLS Guy have in his new home.

Right but if someone has the money for $10K speakers, they should be able to treat their room. People don't want to look at treatments, don't understand acoustics and most people who sell audio don't understand it, either. They don't want to take the time, make the effort and spend the money that would get them to the point of knowing why speakers may or may not sound good in a specific room- my friend who just started working for KEF sent a video of a system in a small room that isn't making the homeowner happy and just from looking at it, I can understand why. Lots of money spent (more than $15K on speakers alone) and it sounds bad.

 

[highfigh]

Nope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who says this will start with a majority of the market? That almost NEVER happens.

Even if the manufacturers start doing this more, the end users will need to accept it. Whether they understand it is another issue. Then, there's still the people who sell the equipment- they rarely understand what they're dealing with as it is and if you think they'll be able to handle the setup, guess again. Audio and AV have been a battle between sales and service/installation for decades and unless dealers decide to train their people, this isn't going to be a smooth ride.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

And those studios also have a lot of acoustic treatments that very few living rooms have as well, never mind designed rooms that @TLS Guy have in his new home.

Actually a lot of studios aren't perfectly treated. Studios weren't all built in 2023, and far from everyone spend money to keep the studios perfectly up to date with the latest and greatest in acoustic theory.

Many (most?) studios are 20 or 30 years or even older. If a studio were built in the early 90s based on design ideas from the 70s, it's a pretty far cry from the studios that are built today, and perhaps not as far from the audio enthusiast living room as one may think.

EDIT: A lot still have the monitors from the 70s to, typically the NS10s.

 

[Trell]

Actually a lot of studios aren't perfectly treated. Studios weren't all built in 2023, and far from everyone spend money to keep the studios perfectly up to date with the latest and greatest in acoustic theory.

Many (most?) studios are 20 or 30 years or even older. If a studio were built in the early 90s based on design ideas from the 70s, it's a pretty far cry from the studios that are built today, and perhaps not as far from the audio enthusiast living room as one may think.

EDIT: A lot still have the monitors from the 70s to, typically the NS10s.

Sure, but studios have put much more effort and expenses into design and building them with audio in mind than a typical living room, including those buying very expensive speakers. With the modern trend of home-studio-in-bedroom-or-closet that is changing, I guess.

In the end a living room is a multipurpose room where audio is just one part, while a studio is generally single-purpose.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Related digression: Apparently Harbeth is now working on active versions of their top of the line M40 speakers. They're a pretty traditional / conservative manufacturer, so I'd say that at's least an indication that there's some movement in this segment.

 

[TLS Guy]

Related digression: Apparently Harbeth is now working on active versions of their top of the line M40 speakers. They're a pretty traditional / conservative manufacturer, so I'd say that at's least an indication that there's some movement in this segment.

That does not surprise me. As I realized yesterday, that at least in the US most of the public is using active speakers. At least round here pretty much every home has at least one sound bar, and usually two. If you go to Target, Costco or Best Buy, they have them by the hundreds. So active speakers are now widely accepted, but not by the higher end audio community.

I will never understand the rationale of a unit with 15 power amps in one box. I will be shaking my head about that for the rest of my life.

 

[cpp]

Who says this will start with a majority of the market? That almost NEVER happens.

Even if the manufacturers start doing this more, the end users will need to accept it. Whether they understand it is another issue. Then, there's still the people who sell the equipment- they rarely understand what they're dealing with as it is and if you think they'll be able to handle the setup, guess again. Audio and AV have been a battle between sales and service/installation for decades and unless dealers decide to train their people, this isn't going to be a smooth ride.

"Who says this will start with a majority of the market? That almost NEVER happens." I Said Nope so we are saying the same thing.

"the end users will need to accept it " the end user doesn't have to accept anything.

 

[highfigh]

Actually a lot of studios aren't perfectly treated. Studios weren't all built in 2023, and far from everyone spend money to keep the studios perfectly up to date with the latest and greatest in acoustic theory.

Many (most?) studios are 20 or 30 years or even older. If a studio were built in the early 90s based on design ideas from the 70s, it's a pretty far cry from the studios that are built today, and perhaps not as far from the audio enthusiast living room as one may think.

EDIT: A lot still have the monitors from the 70s to, typically the NS10s.

I loaned a guitar amp to someone who was recording a CD (don't remember the year) and I brought it with me- I waited since it wouldn't take a long time. The control room had B&W speakers- I think 802. Sounded terrible and the end result wasn't great, either. Good engineer, but good/great sound from a recording is hard to achieve if what they hear in the control room is bad. That engineer moved on to a different place that's owned by someone who has been in some well-known bands and on well-known recordings, so the budget was larger and their treatments are able to prevent the room from molesting the sound. When I was there to loan my amp again, I moved around the control room and the sound was consistent. That place has Genelec monitors.

 

[highfigh]

"Who says this will start with a majority of the market? That almost NEVER happens." I Said Nope so we are saying the same thing.

"the end users will need to accept it " the end user doesn't have to accept anything.

They don't have to, but people often accept less than what they want or need. It's almost as if they go along with the saying "Don't expect so much and you won't be disappointed".

 

[Eppie]

That does not surprise me. As I realized yesterday, that at least in the US most of the public is using active speakers. At least round here pretty much every home has at least one sound bar, and usually two. If you go to Target, Costco or Best Buy, they have them by the hundreds. So active speakers are now widely accepted, but not by the higher end audio community.

I will never understand the rationale of a unit with 15 power amps in one box. I will be shaking my head about that for the rest of my life.

I suppose sound bars qualify as powered speakers but most of them still sound crappy.

Let's face it. Convenience and aesthetics is a driving factor in consumer electronics, second to price. It is much easier to run speaker wire than to have electrical outlets at every speaker location, especially in a remodel (as opposed to new construction). Powered speakers may make sense for a 2 or 4 channel setup but would it really scale nicely to 15 channels? You still need to get the source material to the speakers so will home owners run cat6/audio-cable and hydro to every speaker location? What about in-ceiling and in-walls? Will manufacturers offer powered in-walls?

Others have mentioned moving the amps external to the speaker box, and for a 2-way speaker system that could work since running 4 conductor wire to each speaker is not that big a requirement. You still need to decide how many separate amps and DSP units are practical. Cram them into one unit like an AVR or force people to invest in racks to hold multiple units? Equipment racks are for enthusiasts and those that have the cash to use an equipment closet that is out of sight. That is not the realm of the general consumer market.

As wireless audio improves I think the signal cable will eventually go away and Dolby will eventually reach a limit with how many effects speakers people will bother to install but AVRs will continue to rule simply out of convenience and the ease & low cost of running speaker wire. Sigberg's speakers could make a great front stage for a music and theatre setup and I could see a hybrid model with powered speakers in the front and passives for the effect channels, but I don't see 15 channel systems moving to all powered speakers any time soon. Most of the power is needed in the front 3 channels, so if you use powered speakers in the front then the demands on the power supply and amps for the remaining channels are reduced significantly. That hybrid model would yield the improved accuracy in the front where it is needed but still allow the convenience and cost savings of an AVR for effects channels.

 

[everettT]

I suppose sound bars qualify as powered speakers but most of them still sound crappy.

Let's face it. Convenience and aesthetics is a driving factor in consumer electronics, second to price. It is much easier to run speaker wire than to have electrical outlets at every speaker location, especially in a remodel (as opposed to new construction). Powered speakers may make sense for a 2 or 4 channel setup but would it really scale nicely to 15 channels? You still need to get the source material to the speakers so will home owners run cat6/audio-cable and hydro to every speaker location? What about in-ceiling and in-walls? Will manufacturers offer powered in-walls?

Others have mentioned moving the amps external to the speaker box, and for a 2-way speaker system that could work since running 4 conductor wire to each speaker is not that big a requirement. You still need to decide how many separate amps and DSP units are practical. Cram them into one unit like an AVR or force people to invest in racks to hold multiple units? Equipment racks are for enthusiasts and those that have the cash to use an equipment closet that is out of sight. That is not the realm of the general consumer market.

As wireless audio improves I think the signal cable will eventually go away and Dolby will eventually reach a limit with how many effects speakers people will bother to install but AVRs will continue to rule simply out of convenience and the ease & low cost of running speaker wire. Sigberg's speakers could make a great front stage for a music and theatre setup and I could see a hybrid model with powered speakers in the front and passives for the effect channels, but I don't see 15 channel systems moving to all powered speakers any time soon. Most of the power is needed in the front 3 channels, so if you use powered speakers in the front then the demands on the power supply and amps for the remaining channels are reduced significantly. That hybrid model would yield the improved accuracy in the front where it is needed but still allow the convenience and cost savings of an AVR for effects channels.

I'd be nice to see more consumers using racks, the convenience is hard to beat, even in room. An inexpensive 22u (more then most would ever need) rack is around 250, then shelves and other hardware pushes it out to approximately $500. Need WAF, it's easy to do on a budget if one doesn't want a pay the premium for a "designer rack".

But I digress

 

[cpp]

"designer rack".

I remember back in the college days ( early 70's) , my rack was 4 - 36" long oak boards 2 " thick, 12" wide, supported by small concrete blocks and red bricks. It worked and back then cheap to.

 

[MrBoat]

Returning to the comment so many have made about wanting to hear the music "the same as in the studio"- if they want it that way, they need to get some active speakers because recording studios have used them for a long time, from brands most people have never heard of.

Not first and foremost with regard to active speakers vs. passive. The easiest way to get the studio experience these days is with any relatively flat measuring bookshelf, or monitor type speaker, but in the near field instead of the much larger sweet spot needed for an audience greater than say, two. This also tends to smooth out the differences between brands of monitors.

It's always been a challenge to get studio monitors to work well in a whole room, or distant MLP.

 

[highfigh]

Not first and foremost with regard to active speakers vs. passive. The easiest way to get the studio experience these days is with any relatively flat measuring bookshelf, or monitor type speaker, but in the near field instead of the much larger sweet spot needed for an audience greater than say, two. This also tends to smooth out the differences between brands of monitors.

It's always been a challenge to get studio monitors to work well in a whole room, or distant MLP.

Depends on the monitors- they don't only use small ones.