Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[Trell]

If NATO decided to discontinue its requirements policy and accepted Ukraine as a member country without further delay, member countries would be able to get directly involved in the war against Russia and IMO, that would definitely shorten the war by putting an end to Russia's invasion.

That will not happen as member candidates cannot be involved in a war with a neighbor country, for instance.

This would also put NATO in a direct war with Russia using NATO armed forces in order to fulfill NATO obligations.

So no NATO membership for Ukraine anytime soon.

 

[Verdinut]

That will not happen as member candidates cannot be involved in a war with a neighbor country, for instance.

This would also put NATO in a direct war with Russia using NATO armed forces in order to fulfill NATO obligations.

So no NATO membership for Ukraine anytime soon.

Ukraine, the member candidate is involved in war just because it was invaded by a neighbor country. They did not provoke the war, Russia did.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That will not happen as member candidates cannot be involved in a war with a neighbor country, for instance.

This would also put NATO in a direct war with Russia using NATO armed forces in order to fulfill NATO obligations.

So no NATO membership for Ukraine anytime soon.

And to change the rules may be difficult if not impossible but I didn't Google the rules and how to change it especially if it takes 100% member agreement.
Turkey would not agree as Finland and Sweeden would also be admitted post haste.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Germany confirms it will provide Ukraine with Leopard 2 tanks - BBC News
Russia-Ukraine live news: US to send 31 Abrams tanks to Kyiv | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera

 

[Mr._Clark]

It looks like the U.S. is supplying Ukraine with somewhat longer range GLSDB missiles, but not the ATACMS missiles. If it was up to me I'd send Ukraine ATACMS, F16s, 200 M1 Abrams tanks, etc.

In my opinion the only thing that will really stop Russia is brute force. For Russia, a negotiated peace would be nothing more than a pause to regroup for the next expansionist military action.

>>>The USAI funds would go toward the purchase of a new weapon, the Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB) made by Boeing Co (BA.N), which have a range of 94 miles (150 km). The United States has rebuffed Ukraine's requests for the 185-mile (297-km) range ATACMS missile.<<<

U.S. readies $2 billion-plus Ukraine aid package with longer-range weapons

The United States is readying more than $2 billion worth of military aid for Ukraine that is expected to include longer-range rockets for the first time as well as other munitions and weapons, two U.S. officials briefed on the matter told Reuters on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[GO-NAD!]

It looks like the U.S. is supplying Ukraine with somewhat longer range GLSDB missiles, but not the ATACMS missiles. If it was up to me I'd send Ukraine ATACMS, F16s, 200 M1 Abrams tanks, etc.

In my opinion the only thing that will really stop Russia is brute force. For Russia, a negotiated peace would be nothing more than a pause to regroup for the next expansionist military action.

>>>The USAI funds would go toward the purchase of a new weapon, the Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB) made by Boeing Co (BA.N), which have a range of 94 miles (150 km). The United States has rebuffed Ukraine's requests for the 185-mile (297-km) range ATACMS missile.<<<

U.S. readies $2 billion-plus Ukraine aid package with longer-range weapons

The United States is readying more than $2 billion worth of military aid for Ukraine that is expected to include longer-range rockets for the first time as well as other munitions and weapons, two U.S. officials briefed on the matter told Reuters on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

I don't think the conditions required to commence any negotiations can be met. Ukraine would demand that the Russians leave all Ukrainian territory before they start talking. I can't see Putin ever agreeing to that condition, as it would amount to a defacto defeat.

 

[cpp]

the more the US and the other NATO countries provide , the more dangerous Putin will become.

 

[Trell]

the more the US and the other NATO countries provide , the more dangerous Putin will become.

How did appeasing Putin work out? Who’s next on Putins list of nations to invade?

The Russian invaders have three options. I’m fine with all three of them.

1. Leave Ukraine
2. Surrender
3. Die

 

[highfigh]

I don't think the conditions required to commence any negotiations can be met. Ukraine would demand that the Russians leave all Ukrainian territory before they start talking. I can't see Putin ever agreeing to that condition, as it would amount to a defacto defeat.

"Is not defeat, is pullback".

 

[Mr._Clark]

the more the US and the other NATO countries provide , the more dangerous Putin will become.

I have no doubt that Putin wants the U.S. and NATO to believe this.

Whether or not it's true is of course the big unknown. I don't think it's possible to state with certainty either way. Having said that, I tend to think that over a longer period of time appeasing Putin will result in him becoming more dangerous.

Here's an interesting thread by Greg Udin about Putin (Udin is Russian, but he appears to have firm grasp on reality)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594468684914835456

 

[GO-NAD!]

"Is not defeat, is pullback".

Or, "orc-us interruptus".

 

[cpp]

How did appeasing Putin work out? Who’s next on Putins list of nations to invade?

The Russian invaders have three options. I’m fine with all three of them.

1. Leave Ukraine
2. Surrender
3. Die

Oh yes, if he so chooses he can just invade another close country, nothing really stopping him. I like this quote in the Atlantic news a while back "Like a mob boss, Putin uses the threat of violence to intimidate his Western opponents"

 

[Trell]

Oh yes, if he so chooses he can just invade another close country, nothing really stopping him. I like this quote in the Atlantic news a while back "Like a mob boss, Putin uses the threat of violence to intimidate his Western opponents"

Sure we can stop Putin by soundly defeating him militarily as well as economically and culturally. What won't work is appeasement to authoritarian leaders.

Stopping Putin and how we do that is also important how we deal with a belligerent, nationalistic and totalitarian China. You can be sure that Taiwan, among other states, are looking very closely at the brutal Russian invasion of Ukraine.

 

[highfigh]

Sure we can stop Putin by soundly defeating him militarily as well as economically and culturally. What won't work is appeasement to authoritarian leaders.

Stopping Putin and how we do that is also important how we deal with a belligerent, nationalistic and totalitarian China. You can be sure that Taiwan, among other states, are looking very closely at the brutal Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I would prefer to see others in Russia suddenly begin to ask "Where did Vladimir go?".

 

[mtrycrafts]

I would prefer to see others in Russia suddenly begin to ask "Where did Vladimir go?".

they are in jail already.

 

[highfigh]

they are in jail already.

Everyone in Russia is in jail? Oh, right- the whole country is a jail with their propaganda as the cage.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Everyone in Russia is in jail? Oh, right- the whole country is a jail with their propaganda as the cage.

Well, people have been locked up for speaking out when the diehards hear such comments and report them to the police.
But I would not be surprised if there are lots of room to lock them up in the gulags.

 

[highfigh]

Well, people have been locked up for speaking out when the diehards hear such comments and report them to the police.
But I would not be surprised if there are lots of room to lock them up in the gulags.

Interesting that one of the higher-ups in the Wagner Group defected after witnessing an execution. IIRC, it involved a sledgehammer. Whoever carried that out needs to suffer.

 

[Mojo Warrior]

Russia just freed up 40,000-50,000prison cells by sending their convicts to the front lines. Plenty of room for trouble makers [sarcasm].

 

[Mikado463]

Russia just freed up 40,000-50,000prison cells by sending their convicts to the front lines. Plenty of room for trouble makers [sarcasm].

hmmmm, perhaps we could contribute some of ours !