Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

[Rylan]

I do read subjective reviews, just won't put much weight on them because they are subjective views of the reviewers that may or may not apply to others.

If your own view is that the CG23 are great than you have what you like, though trading them in for the cg25 seems like a good idea because you expect to listen with volume at -12.

For your room size and distance, a second subwoofer is also a good idea, or even a necessity.

Great! I will get a second sub. Also, I am going to explore the CG25s as well as do some comparisons. Does moving from a sensitivity of 86 to an 88 make much of a noticeable difference?

 

[ban25]

Also, I don't know if you are using stands with the current speakers, but it's definitely a good idea to move those up to ear level if not.

 

[Rylan]

Also, I don't know if you are using stands with the current speakers, but it's definitely a good idea to move those up to ear level if not.

Yes I have them at ear level and toed in. The L and R are at 60° apart, and my two surrounds are at 90° At 9” above seated ear level, and my four ceiling atmos are at 60°. I have the distances and locations very thought out and planned. However, that doesn’t mean I’m not open to suggestions

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Wow this thread picked up again! Lol
I wonder if it’s worth asking about trading in the current speedwoofer on the cg25’s, and investing in a big sub from Rythmik, PSA, HSU or monolith etc. I know the speedwoofer is new in this room, but I’m thinking a trip straight to the bottom of the rabbit hole is in order, and just get it done lol. I know @Rylan has just begun, and we’ve kinda guided the direction towards the 10s, but the playback levels and room size we’re now talking about are substantial. I think having one or two larger subs that playback higher levels and offer deeper extension would give better ROI, and make a much better system in the long run. As much as I like the 10s, I think even a pair would be outmatched by the room.

 

[ban25]

Yes I have them at ear level and toed in. The L and R are at 60° apart, and my two surrounds are at 90° At 9” above seated ear level, and my four ceiling atmos are at 60°. I have the distances and locations very thought out and planned. However, that doesn’t mean I’m not open to suggestions

Sounds like you've got them well positioned!

 

[lovinthehd]

Great! I will get a second sub. Also, I am going to explore the CG25s as well as do some comparisons. Does moving from a sensitivity of 86 to an 88 make much of a noticeable difference?

Audibly not so much, but it would reduce the load on your amp. Takes a doubling of power to gain 3dB spl. Play around with the calculator at the top of this page to help perhaps https://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators or this calculator too http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[PENG]

Great! I will get a second sub. Also, I am going to explore the CG25s as well as do some comparisons. Does moving from a sensitivity of 86 to an 88 make much of a noticeable difference?

Read William's post first before you buy another RSL Woof, the rabbit hole he mentioned does look like the place to be in.

 

[Rylan]

Wow this thread picked up again! Lol
I wonder if it’s worth asking about trading in the current speedwoofer on the cg25’s, and investing in a big sub from Rythmik, PSA, HSU or monolith etc. I know the speedwoofer is new in this room, but I’m thinking a trip straight to the bottom of the rabbit hole is in order, and just get it done lol. I know @Rylan has just begun, and we’ve kinda guided the direction towards the 10s, but the playback levels and room size we’re now talking about are substantial. I think having one or two larger subs that playback higher levels and offer deeper extension would give better ROI, and make a much better system in the long run. As much as I like the 10s, I think even a pair would be outmatched by the room.

Appreciate the feedback. Did you have any particular ones in mind? Ones you know would be better. I know it would be an upgrade in price, but curious on price comparison to RSL.

 

[lovinthehd]

My cue

 

[Rylan]

Read William's post first before you buy another RSL Woof, the rabbit hole he mentioned does look like the place to be in.

Haha! Ok sounds good

 

[lovinthehd]

Do you have room for larger subs?

 

[Rylan]

Easily

 

[lovinthehd]

Easily

That combined with a will and budget....yeah I'd move up. The slowly upgrading sub thing is a nice experience in a way, but....

 

[PENG]

Easily

Exactly what I thought! A very nice room, great for a pair of big SVS, or equivalent HSU, Rythmik etc.

Dual PB-2000 Pro – SVS (svsound.com)
SVS PB-3000 Subwoofer | 13-inch Driver | 800 Watts RMS (svsound.com)
Rythmik Audio • 15" 600WRMS servo subwoofer F15HP

 

[lovinthehd]

Or Monolith or Hsu or a few others. DIY if you've got the time/tools/finishing skills.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Appreciate the feedback. Did you have any particular ones in mind? Ones you know would be better. I know it would be an upgrade in price, but curious on price comparison to RSL.

Well yeah, I can definitely think of a few. Would help to know your comfort level though. For example, a Rythmik fv15hp is about 2k shipped iirc off hand. It’s an amazing subwoofer, but a little expensive.

Rythmik Audio • Direct Servo subwoofer products

A great option is a dual drive package from HSU. https://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2Dual.html it’s 2300ish.
Another great choice is the monolith 15 for 1500.

Monolith by Monoprice M-15 V2 15in THX Certified Ultra 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer - Monoprice.com

Monolith™ by Monoprice™15" THX® Certified Ultra 1000‑Watt Powered SubwooferMassive Output. Low Distortion. THX® Certified.The Monolith™ THX® Certified Ultra Su

www.monoprice.com

Or the mono 12 for 900 each.

Monolith by Monoprice M-12 V2 12in THX Certified Ultra 500-Watt Powered Subwoofer - Monoprice.com

Monolith™ by Monoprice™12" THX® Certified Ultra 500‑Watt Powered SubwooferMassive Output. Low Distortion. THX® Certified.The Monolith™ THX® Certified Ultra Sub

www.monoprice.com

So there’s some more food for thought to add to @PENG ‘s suggestions.
Svs can be a good option and allows you the freedom of “free” shipping and an in home trial, and also has nice app control. You can basically try their subs for nothing.
All of these subs will outperform the speedwoofer handily, but are much more expensive. Again, I love the speedwoofer, but it has to be used in a space where it can excel.
I really think if you’re willing to spend on a big subwoofer you will be pleased. I apologize for not going down this path sooner, as it may have saved you some effort and money.

 

[Danzilla31]

Easily

Awesome! as much as I love those RSL subs that is a big room.

Also some bigger subs will pair well with the cg25 and 23s you plan to get they have a better linear response with more output up to that 90hz crossover your using so they will pair with those speakers better.

As mentioned what's your price range your budget for dual subwoofers? We need a budget we don't want to suggest anything that's going to be out of the ballpark of what you want to spend and waste your time

I have some suggestions but don't want to list anything until I know what your looking to spend

 

[lovinthehd]

Awesome! as much as I love those RSL subs that is a big room.

Also some bigger subs will pair well with the cg25 and 23s you plan to get they have a better linear response with more output up to that 90hz crossover your using so they will pair with those speakers better.

As mentioned what's your price range your budget for dual subwoofers? We need a budget we don't want to suggest anything that's going to be out of the ballpark of what you want to spend and waste your time

I have some suggestions but don't want to list anything until I know what your looking to spend

Or rather put it into terms of what's the minimum budget he should be ready for?

 

[Rylan]

Wow, I really appreciate everyone’s willingness to send links and suggestions! It’s always easier to help someone else spend money , especially when what they may purchase is exciting!

I’ll be honest, I had no idea the prices could jump up that much so quickly. The issue I’m having is that between the AVR, the TV, (current speaker setup) blue ray player, all the accessories to set things up correctly, and install my wire correctly behind the sheetrock, I’m sitting at about $5500 in the last 2 months. As much as I’d love to follow Alice deep down the rabbit hole, I think I’m needing to pump the brakes a little while my wife still enjoys the system lol. In order to upgrade the RSL CG23 line to the CG25 line, I might be looking at approx $400-500.

If I were to add a second RSL sub, that’s another $360 with their current 20% off sale.

As you all know, this hobby can start to add up fast. (With me not knowing prices) I originally was envisioning maybe a couple extra hundred dollars for better subs. You guys gave some Excellent options. Those look like some amazing subwoofers. I will plan for now to keep those ideas in my notes for when I decide to upgrade and get more serious down the road. Im at a place where I’m starting to feel I’m pushing my price point limits. I can understand now the feeling of wanting to go deeper, and maybe I might just be tasting the excitement of what it means to be an audiophile. Maybe I can cash in my retirement and buy some killer subs haha! Right now I’m still open to something different, but being the price jumps so much on anything decent, It might just be to far away at this point in time. If I had to settle on a second Subwoofer from RSL, I know I could still be happy as my first system and starting point. I’m still open to any ideas and suggestions, but I certainly don’t want to waste anyones time sending links to some great products that are not within my current budget. If I had a budget for 2 Subwoofers, I’d say my max would be $1000. Hope that clears things up. Seriously, thank you for all the great links. Now I have some goals to shoot for

 

[Danzilla31]

Wow, I really appreciate everyone’s willingness to send links and suggestions! It’s always easier to help someone else spend money , especially when what they may purchase is exciting!

I’ll be honest, I had no idea the prices could jump up that much so quickly. The issue I’m having is that between the AVR, the TV, (current speaker setup) blue ray player, all the accessories to set things up correctly, and install my wire correctly behind the sheetrock, I’m sitting at about $5500 in the last 2 months. As much as I’d love to follow Alice deep down the rabbit hole, I think I’m needing to pump the brakes a little while my wife still enjoys the system lol. In order to upgrade the RSL CG23 line to the CG25 line, I might be looking at approx $400-500.

If I were to add a second RSL sub, that’s another $360 with their current 20% off sale.

As you all know, this hobby can start to add up fast. (With me not knowing prices) I originally was envisioning maybe a couple extra hundred dollars for better subs. You guys gave some Excellent options. Those look like some amazing subwoofers. I will plan for now to keep those ideas in my notes for when I decide to upgrade and get more serious down the road. Im at a place where I’m starting to feel I’m pushing my price point limits. I can understand now the feeling of wanting to go deeper, and maybe I might just be tasting the excitement of what it means to be an audiophile. Maybe I can cash in my retirement and buy some killer subs haha! Right now I’m still open to something different, but being the price jumps so much on anything decent, It might just be to far away at this point in time. If I had to settle on a second Subwoofer from RSL, I know I could still be happy as my first system and starting point. I’m still open to any ideas and suggestions, but I certainly don’t want to waste anyones time sending links to some great products that are not within my current budget. If I had a budget for 2 Subwoofers, I’d say my max would be $1000. Hope that clears things up. Seriously, thank you for all the great links. Now I have some goals to shoot for

Totally understandable all of us at times had to upgrade in stages. Happy wife happy life and making sure the bills get paid is something we all go through.

Honestly since your budget is tight I'd buy the second RSL speedwoofer and get the Cg25's that second sub in that room with the upgrade in those speakers will still be a big improvement. And will keep you very close to that 1000 dollar budget that you set for the sub.

A 5.2.4 RSL system is going to be light years beyond what most average Joe's will EVER experience. And will keep you very happy for a long long time until you're ready and have the budget saved up to upgrade.

RSL is a GREAT company I love those guys. And I've enjoyed every purchase I've ever bought from them

Make sure to buy RSL's wireless sub adapters 2 of them 1 for each sub. That way you don't have to run long cable to your subs and you can literally place your subs anywhere in the room that you want

Those adaptors work great and they are only $100 bucks for both of them

Very excited for you can't wait to see some pics once it's all setup!